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Dollarmansteve · 06-18-2007, 12:55 PM

This electric car debate always pisses me off. Electric cars are cars that feed of the teet of the hydrocarbon economy.

What's hilarious is that the real solution to the problem is LESS ENERGY USE. The carbon cycle is a closed loop - you will always get less out of it than what you put it at an ever decreasing percentage.

The carbon cycle is mimicked in any energy cycle. You put energy in and eventually that energy is reduced (eg changes form) to zero.

For example, you take X amount of oil out of the groud (this uses an amount of energy that is less than the energy of X amount of oil). This oil is then turned into usable energy over and over.. burned in a car as gasoline, burned in a power plant, burned in a home furnace.. heat energy is converted to other kinds of energy.. mechanical energy (rotational, etc).. at less than 100% efficiency along the way.

Eventually the long tail of the energy of X amount of oil reaches zero and there is no usable energy left from X amount of oil. What you have to do is put more oil (or any energy) into the system.

It doesn't matter what the energy source is, whether it's sunlight or oil or natural gas or tidal power, etc, etc, etc. All these closed energy systems work on the same laws of physics.

The only variable that we have control over is the total amount of energy we use.

An electric car is the same as a gasoline car in that it CONSUMES ENERGY. The actual fix to our "hydrocarbon addiction" (which is actually "energy addiction" .. the source doesn't matter) is eliminating waste from the energy cycles and simply consuming less.

For example, someone who drives an electric car still puts a strain on the hydrocarbon energy loop every time they drive the car. The manufacturing of the car used hydrocarbons or other forms of energy as input.

The real answer is not to replace gas cars with electric cars, it's to ELIMINATE unneccessary cars from the road, period... don't even build them in the first place. No gas cars, no electric cars, etc. You eliminate cars from the road through efficiency - economic and social efficiency.

The solution lies in creating socio-economic systems that lessen our need for energy.

So, don't everyone bitch and moan that GM doesn't build electric cars. If you really cared about the environment you would RIDE A FUCKING BIKE.

Oh, your commute is 45 mins by car... so you can't ride your bike there? These are the socio-economic conditions that create energy dependency. The solution for the commuter is to live closer to work or to work from home - NOT an electric car.

06-18-2007, 12:55 PM
Dollarmansteve Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Location: T.O. Posts: 2,849	This electric car debate always pisses me off. Electric cars are cars that feed of the teet of the hydrocarbon economy. What's hilarious is that the real solution to the problem is LESS ENERGY USE. The carbon cycle is a closed loop - you will always get less out of it than what you put it at an ever decreasing percentage. The carbon cycle is mimicked in any energy cycle. You put energy in and eventually that energy is reduced (eg changes form) to zero. For example, you take X amount of oil out of the groud (this uses an amount of energy that is less than the energy of X amount of oil). This oil is then turned into usable energy over and over.. burned in a car as gasoline, burned in a power plant, burned in a home furnace.. heat energy is converted to other kinds of energy.. mechanical energy (rotational, etc).. at less than 100% efficiency along the way. Eventually the long tail of the energy of X amount of oil reaches zero and there is no usable energy left from X amount of oil. What you have to do is put more oil (or any energy) into the system. It doesn't matter what the energy source is, whether it's sunlight or oil or natural gas or tidal power, etc, etc, etc. All these closed energy systems work on the same laws of physics. The only variable that we have control over is the total amount of energy we use. An electric car is the same as a gasoline car in that it CONSUMES ENERGY. The actual fix to our "hydrocarbon addiction" (which is actually "energy addiction" .. the source doesn't matter) is eliminating waste from the energy cycles and simply consuming less. For example, someone who drives an electric car still puts a strain on the hydrocarbon energy loop every time they drive the car. The manufacturing of the car used hydrocarbons or other forms of energy as input. The real answer is not to replace gas cars with electric cars, it's to ELIMINATE unneccessary cars from the road, period... don't even build them in the first place. No gas cars, no electric cars, etc. You eliminate cars from the road through efficiency - economic and social efficiency. The solution lies in creating socio-economic systems that lessen our need for energy. So, don't everyone bitch and moan that GM doesn't build electric cars. If you really cared about the environment you would RIDE A FUCKING BIKE. Oh, your commute is 45 mins by car... so you can't ride your bike there? These are the socio-economic conditions that create energy dependency. The solution for the commuter is to live closer to work or to work from home - NOT an electric car. __________________ I died.