Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonstills
It's not a matter of laziness in the sense you are describing. It just seems like there is a lot of .... "noise" ... in the language. Lots of symbols and words that don't need to be there. Clutter if you will.
Also, hate might be a bit strong. It's just not the right tool for the job. No matter how I use a screwdriver it's just not going to work as well as a hammer for putting nails in a wall. I could do it with a screwdriver, but it's not ideal. Would require more effort and take longer.
The language feels like a hack of things thrown together without much thought for their implication. When designing any language there is always a trade-off between how much effort it will be to write the parser/compiler and how much effort will be needed on the user's (coder's) end.
Also, I think it is very rare that people will be able to understand what I am talking about because very few people know how to write a parser / compiler and also very few people are familiar with non-mainstream programming techniques such as closures, lambda calculus, and functional programming.
For anyone interested, I suggest reading the book "Programming Language Pragmatics". You will have a much better understanding of the differences between the languages. Sure you can do everything in pretty much every language, but some let you do it a lot easier. Saying that's just being lazy is a poor rebuttal. Wanting to use a hammer when you're forced to use a screwdriver isn't laziness, it's because you know there's something better for that particular task.
Using it like it's intended only works if PHP is suitable to what you are intending to do. I'm not talking about simple scripts. I'm talking about enterprise level stacks and frameworks that can integrate with each other.
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I agree just using the 'it seems like your lazy' isn't a great rebuttal, but that's what it seems like. You want something that the average joe can run that will do what you need, and that's php. If you really can't bring yourself to use $ for variables, etc.. and think it's that bad of a language, then use something else, but every language has it's reasons for doing things the way they do, you or me may not think something is right, but 99.9% of the way things are the way they are because that's the way it works as fast as it does, or for as many people as it does, etc..
So i guess i'm just saying i agree with you, if php isn't the right tool for the job, it's not. But just because it's 'enterprise level' stuff doesn't mean php isn't that tool. PHP can and is used at an enterprise level and probably is by now the most commonly used scripting language for web based stuff (i don't know if this is true, i haven't looked at the stats for this type of stuff in forever, if it's not #1 it's gotta be damn close).
BTW, most of my experiance does come from programming more mainstream enterprise level stuff, i live, eat, and breathe php code for the most part, and in using it every day for the last 5 or so years i have yet to have any of my clients propose doing something web based that couldn't be done w/ php, and i would say that php accounts for atleast 95% of the programming that i do anymore.
I've written parsing code (script parsing, data mining, and just about any other sort of parsing), as well as compilers, and many enterprise level applications.