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Originally Posted by Libertine
Duchamp's Fountain actually is a pretty good example of what I was talking about. To understand and appreciate it, you have to know the context. But once you are fully aware of the context, calling it "crap" becomes impossible, ridiculous even.
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I should have said I wanted to take a crap IN it. That might have been clearer for you. My apologies again for being so obscure.
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Originally Posted by Libertine
I hate that thing with a passion, but "crap" is a term which doesn't fit.
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For you maybe. For me it fit perfectly, and was a lot simpler to type than what you've thrown at it.
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Originally Posted by Libertine
Had it been made 20 years ago instead of 90 years ago, the term might have been a fitting one. Had others done similar things before Duchamp, again, the term might have been a fitting one.
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Again, appreciation for any visual art piece is a subjective thing, and is going to change from person to person. A roomful of art nuts who are prone to loving anything put before them are going to rave about it and yak about it's "historical context", while display it on a busy sidewalk and I'd hazard a guess that most will be tempted to piss in it, or on it. They certainly wouldn't pay money for it.
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Originally Posted by Libertine
As it is, though, it's possibly the most influential piece of art of the 20th century.
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Okay then.
(I'm trying not to laugh but losing the fight badly)
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Originally Posted by Libertine
Looking back now and saying "meh, it's crap" takes its influence for granted, and measures it against a standard which did not exist when it was created.
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Whatever. I know crap when I see it. I can also accept the reality that not every kind of art is going to appeal to everyone, and that it's probably a big waste of time trying to convince them an upside-down urinal with a signature on it is important.
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Originally Posted by Libertine
You have to take the historical context into account to appreciate it. In order to do that, you need to know the historical context.
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I'm quite sure the history of that particular urinal isn't a mystery.
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Originally Posted by Libertine
Just like you need historical context in order to, say, appreciate medieval paintings which lack proper perspective.
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I can't recall ever attributing the word crap to such bonified works of art. Again, at least two others in this thread picked up on my intended meaning. Why you didn't is beyond me, but I rather suspect you were very likely just on here looking for an excuse to argue. Am I right? I think I am. :D