I have more to post, much more to post - but I felt I needed to clear up the lies / half-truths that pr0 was posting about what happened.
For those who don't know, this is relating to...
First thread I started:
http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948258-untouchedmarkets-pr0-refund-money.html
And pr0's thread response:
http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/948460-recent-bullshit-drama-explained-detail.html
Here's my version responding to pr0's thread:
History via Email Correspondance
The non-bullshit version. If you want to read the bullshit version, refer to pr0's posts. Otherwise read below:
11/5/09 - Employee contacts me, introduces himself
11/6/09 - I reply with some additional login details that were missing from my original file I sent pr0
11/13/09 - Employee tells me everything is laid out and ready to go - doing installs that weekend
11/16/09 - Employee says he's uploading and installing at the moment
11/20/09 - Everything has been friendly up until this point.
- I send an email to Employee:
"Been over two weeks now but haven't seen anything yet?"
I was giving benefit of the doubt that things were just about to be setup and all pre-setup stuff had actually been done (as the employee had told me over these 2 weeks), and that sites will start to actually be setup soon (as the employee told me).
11/26/09 - 6 days later: Employee supposedly sent 2 emails that I didn't receive. Said he had an update for me later that day (never got one).
This is 21 days later, and no work is online yet -- Deadline is in 9 days. Should I be a bit worried / concerned?
What turned my benefit of a doubt into realizing the progress was lies? What gave it away - he had just contacting me to deal with support / hosting issues 21 days into the project, that he supposedly dealt with in the 1st week of the project.
I think anyone in this situation would start getting irritated with all of the "I'm doing things," but just excuses so far, and nothing done.
I was also pissed off that the month's worth of work I assumed / expected I would be getting could only possibly be 9 or 10 days worth of work with the deadline coming.
21 days / 3 weeks into the project - and I call the employee on the excuses (via email), and forward a copy to pr0 so he's aware of it. This is 9 days before the 1 month deadline.
11/27/09 - Untouched Market / pr0 / William replies to me and says:
- If he finds out employee is making excuses he'll be fired, and replaced
- This is when he told me to forget about final payment (which was his profits [probably additional profits] - that he has been stating he never was trying to get, since of course he has been telling everyone he was so kindly doing this a favour [to get in on Owned.com].
- He told you all that I weaselled my way out of paying less, when in fact he stated himself I no longer had to pay it. This final payment also wasn't in the contract because I didn't overly trust him / or other contractors because of being fucked over so much (including with Owned.com which is why it's taking so long to get something good on it), and so he kept it out of the contract and said that if he fucked me then I wouldn't have to pay / wouldn't have to worry - and to me that was a good incentive for him to do a good job ? so I felt more comfortable to send him money. And he was fine with this because he trusted me to pay him the remainder once work was completed.
- He reassures me that the employee or replacement will finish the job, and says other things to make me feel relaxed and good about things
- He tells me there will be no more excuses, no more delays, only progress. He apologizes that I ever had to write the email, and thanked me for CC'ing it to him.
11/28/09 - 4 weeks in -- First blogs get installed via hosting support request. They get auto-populated with RSS feed.
Sometime inbetween here I talk to him in messenger - he concludes the conversation / my concerns by telling me to have some more patience.
12/3/09 - 5 days before deadline. I send an email to pr0 / William reminding him that I have SEO hosting costs and a plan I need to stick to (that he knew about prior) in order for me to have money for my other project plans to move ahead. I tell him I am concerned, that there is need for concern based on lack of progress so far. And that he has had my money for almost a month with nothing done. I mention that support issues should have been all dealt within 5 days, not after 25 days. I end the email with "25 days is a lot of patience."
12/8/09 - This is the deadline date. Employee emails me. Basic Wordpress installs done on some more domains. Some with auto-populated content from RSS feeds; Wordpress installs done by hosting companies. Over half of the domains are still just domains. The rest of everything had very little time put into it.
What has been setup so far is basically nothing as to what was promised or expected or was discussed for what would be done - so please don't say "well he did work" - it's not even a small fraction of the work that was supposed to be done, and most of it was done by hosting company installs via quick support requests.
12/12/09 - 4 days past deadline. Still hearing excuses from employee. I email him saying I don't want to hear more excuses or reasons of things not being done. I describe the situation, and I state that this not being done fucks up my plans (that deadline pr0 knew was very important to meet, and that this shit was the exact stuff I was tired of dealing with; I shouldn't of having to be micro-managing pr0's employee either). I also state I don't trust what the employee is saying.
At this point I'm pissed off and irritated because I was lead on by the employee, and now pr0 for over a month, and .
Email conversation ends.
On to the message logs:
01/05/10 - NOTE: Project is 1 month overdue at this date.
Some point in-between this he sends a support request to have host setup Wordpress installs. He doesn't send them the proper information (he believed he did: but when I followed up, which he should of done instead of getting angry, he in fact didn't send them the proper information).
01/11/10 - I mentioned seeing this support request to him. He just blames the hosting company for being incompetent. He doesn't follow up with them, doesn't reply to the support request. I realize he's not taking this serious, and it's already been 2 months (1 month overdue) and basically no real work has been done, and to expect anything to get done any time soon by him, or properly done was wishful thinking.
In his replies he continues to insult me, calls me a nutjob, etc.. I send him a text message afterwards (because he went offline immediately after) that I'm contemplating asking for a full refund again (which he had already said he'd give me + that he'd to compensate me for the hosting costs, and for fucking over my other plans he knew about).
01/12/10 - He sends me message saying I weaselled my way into paying less (read above: not true, he offered that as part compensation). Says a lot of things to try to make me worry, including insults.. nutjob, mental instability, broke the contract, and that he'll see me in court? etc..
Getting $2,000 is worth my time and effort into putting time into stating my side / the non-bullshit version. I should sue him for defamation as well, and other costs.
Basically now I'm going to have expenses of another 2-3 or 4 months of hosting so I can get the domains setup as proper sites, and let them mature and earning revenue before I can sell.
I'm heading out to a club now? Check back for more tomorrow though.. I have a lot more to say. Including seeing what pr0 will say, or not say regarding this:
- Someone contacted me and asked me to post anonymously for them. They paid $5,000 to pr0 (William / Untouched Markets) 1 year ago, and no work has been done yet. They want to see what pr0 has to say about that.
I can't confirm it - but pr0 can deny this if it's not true - I'm fairly sure the person will post though then if he does deny it.
Matt
P.S. The dates should be mostly correct. If I mistyped them it's because it's 1:11 AM and it's a lot to sort through. I'll go over them to confirm them tomorrow though. And I'll be posting responses to what other people have said.
P.S.S. Thanks for everyone's support.