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Originally Posted by kane
If you look from 1940 until now average wage has gone up, GDP has gone up, the stock market has gone up. These are all good things that sat semi-stagnant for years or that went up and down like a roller coaster. I'm not saying these only happened due to regulation, there are a million other factors that can be added it, but regulation played a roll.
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This is incorrect kane, if we adjust it for inflation. 2000-2010 was the worst decade for stocks since the 30s, and there was actually a negative return. Ditto for GDP, wage, and deficit.
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I agree that that gold standard is a good thing, but I don't see this steady 30 year decline you talk about. In 1971 the average household income in the US (adjusted) was $35,400 while in 2009 it was $50,300 and had just suffered about a 10% drop in the previous year due to the recession. The Dow in 1971 was around 1,000. Today is is around 10K (depending on the day). Home prices now compared to the early 70's are through the roof. I won't argue that there have been some bad things that have happened, but there have also been a long solid period of growth.
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The fiscal and monetary mismanagement began after Nixon took us off the gold standard. That's when the printing presses rolled out. That's when we started spending and stopped saving. That's when we started moving away from being a manufacturing economy, and towards a service economy. The fact that home prices are so high is the leading cause of the sub prime mortgage failure as well as inflation. You have to adjust everything for inflation dude.
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Do me most of the downfall has come in the growth of the national debt. That has a lot more to do with politicians and their out of control spending and wasting of money than it has to do with some regulation of the financial markets.
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It's both, but regulation of the financial markets has met with constant failure.
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It seems these days I hear the phrase "free market" more than I have in a long time. It is the new "It" word with the tea party and the republicans. I think a lot of people don't fully understand what a 100% free market is. A 100% free market, Capitalist society is a rabid, hungry wolf that will eat her own young and the bottom 90% of wage earners in this country are the young.
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I disagree. Because that rabid wolf will lose strength and there will be nobody to help him as he slowly lacks the ability to hunt. As greedy as people are, it's better that there's no regulation in the private sector than mass public regulation for everything. Again, whatever fails, should stay failed.
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Sure, if a guy starts a business and he runs it like shit and it fails, it should be allowed to fail. If there is a market for the product or service that this business offered another business with step in and pick up the market this failed business has left behind. But there is a huge difference between a business being allowed to fail and entire industry cooking the books and playing Russian Roulette with people's 401K's, home values, college savings ect. These are people who just played by the rules and got fucked because there was nobody overseeing what was going on. Even a farmer gets a sheep dog to watch over his flock. You can still have a Capitalist society and promote Capitalist ideals, while overseeing how the game is played.
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Government oversight is unnecessary. You speak about rabid wolves, but those same rabid wolves exist in government, which is even worse than independently in the private sector. AIG should have been allowed to fail. Everything that failed should have been allowed to fail, with new shit popping up. Instead, we bailed them out. Sad.
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I go back to my previous point. A strong middle class is something that must be in place if you want long term economic growth and stability. If you don't have that, you will struggle. If you don't have some rules and regulations in place to help care for that middle class so that they aren't used as food and thrown out by the greedy bankers and barons, it hurts us all.
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Again, same greedy people exist in government. With oversight, they have the full government backing to do what they want. That's a hell of a lot worse than what we had happen in the past 3 years.