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Originally Posted by DLXphil
you do realize that you wont start to see any benefits from test until maybe mid week 3 and week 4 right? even if its a short ester, all your immediate first gains are going to be water and glycogen. i dont know where you get your information, but you still are very mis-informed, regardless of if your "natural" or not...
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What I meant is in 4 weeks time, as in even if it was week 4-8. If you gain 25lbs through a 12 week cycle, how is that anymore than gaining 8lbs in a 4 week cycle.
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not everyone wants to get freaky big, maybe freaky strong, or vascular, or spare fat while on a cut. then you have the newbs and its these people who give supplement companies the wrong way, the people who jump the gun, being ill-informed, not having proper support (your buddy's "support supps" were crap BTW) over the counter PTC while taking 1 very harsh methyl and 1 moderately harsh methyl, then taking an AI when one of them is already an anti-e.
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I respect the research you've done, but your concept of being 'informed' consists of reading a forum full of users, not people coming at you with information from both sides of the fence. In my opinion, no prohormone or steroid is safe, PERIOD. Can't have your cake and eat it too.
BTW, the support supps he took was a prepacked thing like cycle assist which is supposedly okay from what I've heard.. Either way, IMO, he could have taken a million support supps, he's still putting the same crap in his system. It's like drinking a case of beer and smoking 2 packs of cigs a night for 4 weeks straight and saying, it's cool I eat healthy.
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But for someone whos never going to want to be at their genetic limit, recover, have faster gains, harder and fuller muscles, or going for a full body recomposition, then i see no problem with using an aid. I guess thats how i justify it, if im going to punish my body day in and day out i want it working as efficiently as possible, if that makes sense.
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That's your preference, and that's totally cool. I'm just putting the other side to it for beginners to consider. I'm not "freaky" big, and I still have a long road ahead of me, but I've put on a lot of mass naturally without the need to compromise my health. I started off as a skinny guy with probably below average genetics. It's just my opinion that diet, basic supps and a lot of dedication is all you need. If you want to get freaky big or compete then there is always the other road, but that's my take on it.
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But i do see your understanding, but if you do your research theres plenty of studies to backup pretty much anything with a chemical structure
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There are plenty of studies of steroid users who are on lifetime TRT in their late 30s and 40s, and they did everything right. Depression and other physiological issues from messing with your hormones. Heart disease/clogged arteries from sudden increased bad cholesterol, lowered good cholesterol and increased blood pressure. Kidney problems, liver problems, etc..You might not know about the damage done now, or even a couple years after the fact.
It's something to take into consideration, but maybe I take my long term health a little more seriously than others..