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Originally Posted by AmeliaG
Uhm, I like having roads and police and fireman and such just fine. My point was that we have a welfare system in place, so acting like this new bill will help the "poor" is simply false. The poor who are willing to go on assistance were already covered. This bill does add additional expenses to the budgets of an already heavily squeezed middle class.
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And with it are lots of other changes coming too, tax code adjustments, tax havens, budget changes, wars ending. It's not one thing happening, several things are changing and healthcare is just one of them. Saying this bill wouldn't help the poor is simply crazy talk, of course it will help... like saying the VA or Medicare doesn't get used. Of course people need it.
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Originally Posted by AmeliaG
How do you multiply $3k x 2.2 years and get $20k for a birth? You are obviously smart enough to see that doesn't make sense. I really think the problem with the whole insurance sales pitch is that it inhibits people's basic math skills. They push so many emotional buttons that people stop thinking straight.
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That was in reference to cancer, not childbirth.
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Originally Posted by TheDoc
It costs $5-$8k per chemo treatment alone and an upwards of $100k just for treatments. Before pills, hospital stay, therapy, etc. Cancer costs average $150k-$1m+. Just at 100k, that's 33 years of insurance payments just for chemo. This is all paying for it yourself, cash.
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Originally Posted by AmeliaG
You've never come across a cancer patient before whose treatment came to less than a million dollars?
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Never heard of your insurance bills being more than the treatment would cost.
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Originally Posted by AmeliaG
Okay, I haven't gotten a flu shot and you didn't know the answer, so I looked it up. Looks like a lot of grocery stores and pharmacies offer them for free to the needy and they cost $25 to $30 for those who can pay. Are you seriously suggesting that I should pay thousands of dollars a year for health insurance, so I can get a $30 flu shot I don't especially want?
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No.. I'm saying some people can't afford $30 and you helping pay will make it so they can.
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Originally Posted by AmeliaG
You were talking about not outlawing an industry, just because insurance is a predatory, economically-destructive industry. I pointed out that, in Canada, they didn't outlaw insurance, they just made it mostly superfluous for healthcare. You wouldn't support something like that which would take care of everyone, even if it did limit immigration, as Canada does? How was what you said, in any way, a response to that point? Do you dislike the Canadian system in general or just not want it in the US?
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AMP was talking about outlawing it. I want to regulate it. I loved the Canadian system and think we should be working to get ours working somewhat like they have.
Not sure what you mean by limit immigration, it's not hard to move to Canada, become a citizen or even work in Canada & have health insurance too. They offer an extremely fast path compared to America.
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Originally Posted by AmeliaG
So is your point that you think people on welfare should face additional humiliation or that you think everyone should get insurance through a system where everyone gets treated that way or that you think the government should get to decide what each and every American is permitted to spend or save money on?
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I've pissed in like 500 cups and taken 100's of physicals, never once was I embarrassed. If the person is, they should seek mental treatments. I think if my tax dollars are going to pay for it, I don't want to be paying for people that "choose" to take the worst personal routes on my dime.
I think they should do it with food stamps and all welfare as well.
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Originally Posted by AmeliaG
I don't know where you live, but I live in California where minimum wage is $8/hr and of course that doesn't apply to people in business. Someone who can't afford a $30 flu shot, definitely can't afford thousands of dollars a year for insurance, especially when that insurance could disallow everything they need, if they ever are late with a payment. Can you seriously not get it through your head that insurance, by adding a heartless middleman, makes healthcare more expensive and less accessible and insurance is almost always more expensive than healthcare?
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Sure I get it... but your dream isn't going to happen. Nobody is going to take out a multi-billion/trillion dollar Industry, it will never happen. What they would do is regulate it though.
I also think if you removed insurance all together it would require the gov to step in and create a massive regulatory body that would greatly expand the size of gov and its costs. The insurance companies regulate lots of shit right now, someone would still need to make sure it's done and done fairly. They do fill a gap with more than just insurance.