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Originally Posted by AmeliaG
Doc, I think you mean well, but you seem to see the issue as more black and white than I'm comfortable with. This bill has as much to do with healthcare as the Patriot Act has to do with patriotism.
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The healthcare bill provides healthcare... that's all it's job is and it does exactly that. I honestly don't know what else it should do other than provide healthcare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
Do I think there is anything in this bill which will help poor or middle class Americans get better access or prices? No, I don't. And you can't think of a single example of how it helps either.
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Yeah I can, people that can't afford healthcare or insurance, can use this. That's a great help. Price wise, without question. Like asking if Medicare is more expensive than normal insurance, hehe... it's not even close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
In my experience, especially as I get older, I find my own weight and health much easier to support when I am more flush. Potatoes and pasta cost less than salmon and grapefruit. Times in my life that I had the choice between going hungry and going on welfare, I chose to go hungry. According to NIH, more poor people are morbidly obese than rich people. But that is a minor issue.
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Why would you do that? You pay into a system every time you take a check just in case something like that happens, to YOU. It's your money - use it! Unhealthy food is eating out, packaged foods, instant foods... which cost a great deal more than if you made it yourself & you would get more food.
Again though, if you choose to take that path, then sweet. If you had kids though....
I'm sure more poor people are fat, cheap packaged foods, lower education, lots of reasons for this. This is why proper education and working with people, to help drive the costs of care down, is very logical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
You and I disagree on a basic assumption. I am stone cold certain, based on my own experiences and the experiences of those close to me, that, even catastrophic health problems can be cared for for less money than insurance costs. I do not believe I can afford insurance and I don't want to be forced to buy it, regardless of my analysis of my own budget, or their likelihood to be there when I need them.
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If you can afford health care costs out of pocket you can afford insurance. If you got insurance at 18 years old and never used until you were 50 is roughly 96k or 100k paid in.
At 100k, a heart problem, cancer, a week in the hospital, lots of stuff would eat that up really fast. As well, insurance 'can' also pay your bills, house, car, insurance bill, every single bill - for you. So you can focus on getting better & and not losing your house.
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Originally Posted by AmeliaG
America is not a nation of totally rich people who are too heartless to help all those totally deserving poor people and must be forced. You can judge the health of an economy by the size and strength of its middle class. The middle class in America is being squeezed out. Adding another burden to the back of the middle class, in the midst of this disaster of an economy, is misguided at best and deliberately sadistic at worst.
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I think this will help the middle class, not hurt it... Stable costs, the idea that you could budget around medical costs unlike now, no shock costs with kids, so many benefits for the middle class/poor that it's crazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
The new healthcare bill will re-define a lot of people who identify as middle class, such that they will be forced to accept government assistance and/or greatly decrease their already limited quality of life to pay for insurance.
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Everyone is going to be paying into the Gov system either way... Just like SS/Medicare, unemployment, etc - if you don't want to use it, thats your choice, but you'll still have it so you won't have to go buy anything extra.