Originally Posted by Bill8

I suspect you have no idea wether or not individual scientists or scientists in groups have actually lied.

I'd be happy to dissect any examples of individual or group lies. What examples did you have in mind?

The internal peer review system of science culture is very harsh on scientists that lie. If you actually know any possible lies, it might be interesting to see what the science community did about it.

But, I think you have no idea wether or not there have been lies, and that you are just repeating something you've been told to repeat by the corporate media or someone influenced by the media.

If, however, we find examples of actual lies by actual scientists, it wouldn't be a definitive argument against the much much larger body of research, measurements, and models. It's just a reminder that scientists are human beings and people sometimes lie and cheat.

Which is always good to keep in mind.

Originally Posted by dyna mo

i was not aware that climategate had been recently exposed as a manipulation of the facts and i simply stated that the explanation given didn't take climategate into account.