Originally Posted by Bill8

I happily invite you to take his "extremely clear statement" (which was not clear, which he was smart enough to realize), and place it on the table as if it was your own, and I will debate it. again. because I understand that these points have to be hammered home over and over again.

and i would really enjoy having someone on your side present an argument I haven't heard before. new ideas and new arguments are one of the great pleasures debate has to offer.

tell ya what - I'll tie one hand behind my back, just for you. You can bring up any point you like, and I will refrain from asking you to provide it's provenance. No matter what it's source, I will treat it as if it were an argument right from the pages of a source no more biased than scientific american.

that means no mention of murdochian rhetoric on my part, even if its staring us in the face. during this part of the debate.

afterwards I'll point out the provenance of your rhetoric as seems appropriate. editorial comment after a debate is part of the grand tradition, and I wouldn't begrudge you yours.