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I'm trying to extract from this an argument that you are making that I can respond to and follow with argument of my own, and not getting any sense that you yourself are presenting an argument that I can respond to.
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I'm not trying to present an argument, just get the warmist to agree there is a another side and it does deserve the respect of an asnwer, not the relentless rubbishing it gets - maybe not from you directly, but it's out there.
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I don't particularly care about the hockey stick, as far as I'm concerned dendrochronology is weak science, and I never refer to the hockey stick as a credible measurement, so I can't argue for the validity of the hockey stick as a visual representation of measurements.
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Agreed, but there just aren't that many reliable thermometers out there pre 1600's. The cheeky trick of the hockey stick was to use dendro right up this century, then slice on adjusted instrument data - and neither show the splice point nor show that dendro and instrument data diverge like crazy where both are available. Until Macintrye started picking over the hockey stick carefully, it was never presented by the AGW side as anything other than 100% reliable.
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As a set of measurements, the hockey stick has yet to be fully confirmed or refuted in the science literature, as far as I know. I await further peer review, but personally don't think dendrochronology is reliable.
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Good point. Peer review isn't possible without the data and metadata - yet they fought tooth and nail to make sure Macintyre didn't get the data. This I find deeply suspicious.
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The hockey stick graph has been used politically, but I'm not terribly interested in what politicians do, they are all corrupt. Altho, I think they were wrong to use it.
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The trouble is, it wasn't just them - the IPCC and Hansen started to act less like scientists and more like politicans in their use of the graph.
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Science by definition is never settled, thats not how science works, so you'll never hear me argue that the science is "settled". The most that can be said is that anthropogenic global warming deniers are still very much in the minority, in terms of published papers.
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Tell that to Al Gore or the commenters at the top of this thread. It's settled, and I'm a retarded big oil stooge for saying so.
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If there was some particular thing that you personally wanted to debate?
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No, it's a big subject, go read the source stuff yourself and decide for yourself. There's just so much to read and you are quite welcome to form your own opinion on it. The internet makes it so easy to go straight to the source on so many subjects all that anyone need do is decide to take the time go look.
Start here:-
http://wattsupwiththat.com/
http://climateaudit.org/
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I strongly agree that we need transparent fresh data gathering, and I strongly urge you to urge your side to spend the money to gather new measurements, and to make those measurements available transparently! I will on my part urge my side to do the same. In the strongest possible way.
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Sadly its the AGW side who fight tooth and nail to keep "their" data secret. And by "their" I mean the data collected by publicly funded research.
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Your last sentence doesn't make sense to me. If you have record cold, and you have record heat, and you average the data, and the data says it was a bit more hot than it was cold, thats what the data says, and your saying something seems off doesn't affect the math.
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Exactly my point it wasn't "a bit more hot" it was the most hottest ever. What about those years where we had hot winters AND hot summers? Surely hot + hot would be more than hot + cold?
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You will say "I don't trust the measurements". Okay, so get your side to analyze the measuring protocols and set up new measuring stations around the planet and test the measurements.
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And start now from year zero with all those stations when plenty already exist? Why can't we share "yours" - you know, the ones we buy via our taxes?
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Because that's how science works. Your side has tons of money, you have the oil corporations behind you, spend some of it, and take new measurements, dont just bitch about it.
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If only. the IPCC collects money by the truckload and big oil long ago became big energy and worked out there's MORE money on your side of the fence.
Exactly where is all this big oil money? Watts is a retired TV weatherman, Macintrye a retired mining geologist, Bastardi a weatherman, Corbyn a weatherman currently beating the MET office and their 33million pound computer with a PC.
Sorry for the Fisking style response, lots to cover
