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Originally Posted by CDSmith
I always find it troubling whenever anyone tries to sum up the argument by saying "If the Jews would just stop stealing land". Why does it trouble me? Because it doesn't take into account the over 3,000 year history of this conflict, a history that contains serious disputes over who actually "owns" certain land and who doesn't. Not to mention the hate that has been perpetuated over that 3000 years for wrongs either percieved or factual.
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Way back in time God told the Jews, they weren't really Israelites then, to take the land from the Canaanites and slaughter and kill them, men, women and children, even the goats and oxen were not to be spared. Well that's the story Moses and subsequent Jews used to justify them taking the land. Which was probably good arable land in those days.
And today the Jews still preach it's their land.
Yes the land has been fought over ever since. It was invaded by the Babylonians and the Jews were taken out into exile, then the Romans, then the Muslims, then the Christians, then the Muslims again, then the British, then the Turks and finally the Jews. Did I miss anyone?
It seems the ownership of the land has been claimed by anyone with the biggest armies. Today that's the Jews. Should the Muslims just give up the fight and go elsewhere?
Would you?
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If it is your contention that what we're seeing now, although some of it positive, is going to take a long time if anything meaningful and lasting in the way of change is going to happen, then I'd have to agree with you on that. The ME has been a hate-filled near-war-zone powderkeg filled with terrorism and honor killings and a burgeoning white slave trade for centuries, even through the most recent decades. None of it's going to change in a few days. That is pretty much why I worded the title the way I did, as in "Are we possibly seeing the beginnings of change in the ME?"
Trust me I don't see myself sitting here in 3 or perhaps even 5 years looking at news reports of a completely new ME, one that a decadent evil westerner such as myself could feel free to travel to (and return from) safely. Fact is neither of us may live long enough to see it.
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Underlined the most important part. The problems of the ME are far deeper than you're getting on news bulletins. It's a tribal, religious sect and even race split region. Iran had a chance to go Democratic, it didn't and when the vote went against them they rigged the vote and the army backed them. When Iraq had the chance, whether the invasion was right or wrong it's not the point, 100s decided to blow up 1,000s of people in the others sects. Afghanistan is a wonderful example.
Islam is where Christianity was 500 years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
http://www.britannia.com/history/monarchs/mon45.html
People were being killed because of the way they worshiped or for the land they owned. All in the name of God. Even 66 years ago a race was being exterminated because some didn't like them or their ways. In fact if you look at Africa you can see the same picture, tribe against tribe.
Just because you and I live in a relatively civilised country we expect the rest of the world to do the same. Not that simple.