Hello, GFY
Please read this, especially if you do business with PAXUM, or intend to. The conclusions are yours to make.
We?ve been enjoying Paxum for a while, but recently we?ve been having a huge issue with them. Live and learn, they say. I?d like to point out that we?ve REALLY tried to settle this big issue peacefully. Alas, the replies from Paxum seem to be as cynical and just wrong towards customers as they can possibly be.
We and other webmasters/businessmen from Master-X, a major Russian webmaster message board, were apparently scammed by a carder who did his dirty business through Paxum.
We used to exchange Webmoney for Paxum from time to time, not commercially, with no commission involved, for our own purposes only. There?s no rule against that in the TOS.
One day a friend tells me, check your Paxum account, there may be refunds there. It took me a while to see the transactions because there is a lot of them in my account, but I filtered them and boom, here?s what I saw:ha
908944 2012-01-23 16:05:58 Reverse: Received money
[email protected]aRefund 1,068.00ha
3908938 2012-01-23 16:05:43 Reverse: Received money
[email protected]aRefund 850.00ha
3908926 2012-01-23 16:05:29 Reverse: Received money
[email protected]aRefund 570.00ha
3111817 2012-01-09 07:15:14 Received money
[email protected]aTransfer 1,068.00ha
3090203 2012-01-06 18:22:13 Received money
[email protected]aTransfer 850.00ha
3037511 2012-01-04 08:40:35 Received money
[email protected]aTransfer 570.00ha
Refunds, with NO notifications, emails, phone calls etc whatsoever. The money is just GONE.
Nice, isn?t it? Somebody transferred funds to our account and then supposedly requested a refund.
However, what the TOS say is ??(g) User agrees that all Transactions initiated are final and not reversible.?? Which kinda means refunds are technically impossible. But why the Reverse button in the customer area? Anyway...
I contacted the support department right away (emails and phone). Here?s a ticket with Id #139301 of 2012-01-24 06:45:40ha
They replied pretty fast.
Paxum9 Re:refunds
[email protected]a2012-01-24 15:45:48ha
Mr. ......
The aforementioned account has already been suspended in our system. We regret to inform you that all transactions originating from that particular account have been refunded, as they originated from fraudulent credit cards. The originating bank has put a hold on the funds and all transactions had to be returned at the bank's request.ha
We regret any inconvenience this might cause.ha
Best regards.ha
--
No signature, no real person here. In a way, feels like the ePassporte situation. Zero evidence about the supposed carders. One could expect at least some evidence, police reports, bank documents etc. But the way I feel about it, Paxum just took our funds to fix its own security breaches.
Why did they take the funds from the last person in the chain?
We gave it a look and turns out this carder guy generated about $20k of losses total. Very unlikely to be carried out through 1 account and in such a short time, right?
If they accept such big loads, where?s the hold period? Right, this is our fault and it?s left for us to deal with.
But there?s more. I asked for some proof which could explain the situation, and I asked what their solution is going to be. No reply so far, Anton (the Paxum rep handling Russian language boards) never replied to my email. Still, I managed to reach him via PM on that message board. And it was surprising, I gotta tell you.
Message 1 (translated from Russian):
Alexander,
As you were withdrawing (cashing) the funds for third parties, you will be held responsible for all the risks associated with such transactions.
If you received funds as payment for hosting, there would be no problems at all. Instead, you let the funds go through your account not even knowing who the client actually is. This is classified as money laundering, and I?m sorry if you feel you?re an innocent victim here. Because of this, cheaters and carders thrive because they know they can launder their funds in this way.
--
How about that? Not exactly a high-ranking executive willing to look into the clients? issues, is he? Every webmaster out there is in fact a potential scammer, this is what he?s actually saying.
But how could I possibly know that much about any client? I studied the TOS and I thought I was fine. You built almost a fully anonymous system trying to get a bigger market share. I guess your account approval department receives the documents just for lulz. Turns out there?s no account holder screening whatsoever. Why do you even have the rating system ? which is really weird with not more than 5 irrevocable references?
Anyway...
Message 2 (also translated):
If you received the funds as payment for your services, you would be innocent as it?s totally our responsibility. But here, I see that you see nothing wrong in buying Paxum from a somebody for other e-currency. This is a money service transaction, and you are supposed to have a license to do that. It?s your obligation to know who is your client exchanging the funds.
Businesses which offer e-currency exchange operate in this way and know they?re supposed to exercise common sense and not play an innocent fool.
If you are engaged in financial transactions and do not do any checks, you have to understand you may end up being used to withdraw stolen funds. This is exactly what you helped to accomplish here. This is entirely your risk.
If we are contacted by legal authorities, we would have to show the way the funds went. Guess what your role in this chain would be?
If you still don?t see anything wrong with what you did, guess we have nothing else to talk about.
--
After that, I thought I?d reply in public.
Dear Anton,
1. Just a ?somebody? is an approved Paxum customer. Who happened to load his accounts with over $20k of stolen funds, oops.
2. If I didn?t tell you I purchased Paxum for Webmoney (which is legally not even a currency, as you know), you would have never found out. I just had no reason to lie or to conceal things. There?s nothing in the payment details. I could just retract my words and say I got this money as payment for a hosting account.
I want you to keep your word and return the funds. You somehow felt it would be ok to take them from us without any notice.
3. Everybody else, please make sure you get a ?license? ASAP, or you?re in trouble
4. Turns out some e-currency exchange businesses also lost funds because of this.
5. An innocent fool? World class customer service and account management here!
When the authorities do contact you (and they will, this was already initiated), you will have to show everything ? and we?ll have a look. We have nothing to be afraid of, but I?m not so sure about you. Why the rudeness and the threats, anyway?
Our claims are $2,500 total, and the figures are larger with other people. Some of them may want to post in this thread. All of us kinda feel we lost $20k to cover your losses because of insufficient security measures.
So, grab your popcorn, everyone, there we go. I?d especially like to hear from those who exchange e-currencies, what?s their experience. You may want to warn your customers about what?s going on.