I am especially amazed there is some useful and true information posted in GFY, is that a joke?
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Originally Posted by signupdamnit
I know with good certainty some do shave. This is what you get when you have only a handful of sponsors who are mostly larger players. They tend to think they can take advantage of affiliates more and they usually do in some way.
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If you say only "some" do shave, then you imply "some others" are honest. Let it exist 1 program that does not shave: all its affiliates would get the high conversion and money expected. So today you and others would write instead: I get 1:200 on affiliate X and only 1:2000 on others, so they shave. But it seems not the case, as affiliates focus on shave on all the sites like they joined a conspiracy theory "My traffic is worth 1:200 but every program shaves it to 1:2000". So I insist, either every and all program it is shaving (include our program!), so every affiliate sents 1:200 convert traffic and see 1:2000 in stats, or, the conversion it is low "itself" for any reason, include the program it sucks, but honestly.
Further, does the conspiracy theory of the few big programs who shave it includes the smaller programs? As if not, then the small programs should be full of affiliates - do you trust more the new and small, than the big and old programs, honestly?
About popularity (and so trust) of programs... should the affiliates promote the small and new programs, instead of the old and big, if really do not wanted to create themselves the situation you described. Go in any new or old affiliate site blog or tube and they are promoting the same few biggest programs always, directly or via brokers. For cams and dating try to find anyone advertising something different from the same 5 top ones (lj awe, streamate, imlive, streamray/AFF, myfreecams/crak etc.), it is nearly impossible - and for pay sites I am seeing brazzers , realitykings and very few others basically everywhere. Unless you go to thehun.net or freeons digging for a "rare" program, you can not even discover anything else it exists.
This clearly shows that most affiliates does not even try or test the new and small programs: they will blame big ones shave, but wait 6-12 months before signup anyone else (simply as not seeing it promoted by everyone else). Funny enough the affiliates will not join new programs as pre-emptively think they shave? Only when a program for any reason it is later promoted by many already, then everyone jumps there and tests it (like a group of sheeps who move together). The case of Chaturbate was easily followed in GFY: when it launched everyone LOLd at it (usual way to say good luck to new program), then after 6 months everyone tried it (including stocktrader "be millionaire" solutions), until everyone said it shave. So affilites are fully causing the situation you described, no any programs secret conspiracy association it exists (or includes everyone at least).
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Originally Posted by Barefootsies
The business model has changed. Many programs had started developing their own traffic sources back in 2008 to bring more in house so they did not have to keep paying the high ransoms some whales were demanding.
Programs wised up, developed their own tubes and in-house traffic sources so they could keep more of the profits for themselves, and stay in business.Unless you're a whale.
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Exactly, the most business and signups are now from traffic deals measured in raw hits, link/spot placement/exchanges per month, including as much as possible own traffic sources and retainers (as it is the tubes), more than on revshare or PPS deals - unless whale affiliate (rely on quantity to get a deal) or very targeted affiliate (relly on quality to get a deal). Also do not forget that most pay sites esp. ccbill ones have lots of adverts to other sites in their member areas, and this is NOT credited to the affiliates - so even if ccbill does not shave, may you take a look in member areas of the sites you promote for any adverts to other sites.
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Originally Posted by Barefootsies
Indeed.
What is funny, and I was commenting to my friend at the Miami conference about this, is that now EVERYONE is in the traffic game. There were so many traffic brokers at the conference it was almost amusing. I guess when they can't convert their own traffic anymore, sell it to others to stay in business.  
Which is odd, considering that (as you mentioned) many programs are going out of business. Who are they selling too? Desperate program owners trying to stay in business?? All in all just a sad state of affairs as people are clawing and scratching to not have to go find a real job. |
Yes, this is the switch from revshare/pps affiliate system, to traffic trading, brokering, exchanging, bouncing. I am always amazed when I ask the monthly price for spots in new sites and they ask $5,000 to $50,000 per month (the $50k reply I got just few days ago from a chatroulette clone). No one ever will be interested in any revshare or PPS, they do want that money per month or per kilo hits - as they need to pay hosting bills and the traffic they purchased from others in others to grown the own one.
About who they are selling to: you should not forget the gambling, that is legal in europe and other non-US countries and they have huge profits so can buy at the $5k to $50k per spot prices. Then yes there's always every week the new guy who want be porn king and will invest a thousand dollar in adverts for own new site and lose it all - this give a thousand a week until the mother of porn kings it is pregnant. And time to time there's the programs who do money who buy ads whatever the productivity, just as they have the budget.
I am unsure all of this traffic brokering will keep up, may it be more unstable than the pay sites?
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Originally Posted by Paul Markham
True. I've changed so many times in this business.
Online was just another one.
There are people changing still changing. We've seen the move to better produced content in the "Met-Art" end. Now others need to think about how they can change their niche and style of product.
The obvious change is the dropping of being reliant on outside affiliates and the move to larger Tubes. Either self submitting to the big guys or building their own Tubes. The little men are being squeezed out.
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I know well the met-art niche, we are the only cam plugin for domai, mplstudios, watch4beauty, skokoff and previously worked for others (not as granny old as you yet lol), and I don't think in porn it counts the art or pretentious quality factor so much. Those art nude sites it require the girl to be substantially shy and potentially virgin looking in order to have a certain audience amazed. I can see it happening when we put the same models in cams (but note a photo model can be very boring in cam!), the guys keep in polite adoration. When the girl is doing sex with a guy, the audience quite it changes as well as the contect, and even if shoot with big studio umbrella and sophisiticated lights, I would not call it art sorry and the audience it is different and so the traffic and so the conversion. But I am no more into the pre-recorded content so I may be wrong, I may soon be as outdated as you Markham