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Originally Posted by Rochard
But you are missing the most obvious point of them all. When a cop says "turn around" so he can handcuff you THAT'S THAT and the time for discussion is long over. It's too late for that.
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Not true. A cop can detain you if he/she so chooses. But there has to be probable cause. They can't just come up and cuff you. That breaks your fundamental civil rights. In order to detain you or question you, the cop has to have a reason.
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It's like a traffic ticket. If a police officer pulls you over and gives you a ticket, the time to argue it is not with the police officer on the side of the road who handed you the ticket. That's what the courts are for - to argue and plead your case.
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It's much different than a traffic ticket. You and cop BOTH knew what law you broke. You may plead ignorance, but you knew you were speeding. He has a laser showing you that you were speeding. What is there to argue? That's why the cop has to bring all of the laser's maintenance logs and test records into court, if you decide to take it to trial. There's a clear definition of what law was broken. He can't just go in there and say, "Well, he was going really fast. I'm sure he was speeding" - that would be subjective.
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Once a cop arrests you and you resist, suddenly your petty crime becomes much more serious and if you strike an office in any way while they are arresting you, it's assaulting an officer. Bam, suddenly spending a night in jail has changed into you getting a felony.
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But a lot of that has to do with ill informed cops. When they detain you, they are supposed to advise you as to the reason why you're being detained and read your Miranda rights. Many of which can't even remember it and have to read it off a card. But instead, they just tell you to shut up, turn around, and try to detain you without any information as to why. That's when they drop you, get you into a couple of joint locks, and cuff you. And since you didn't "cooperate" for getting cuffed without cause, you're the bad guy.
