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Originally Posted by Robbie
Ok, I don't know how old your daughter is...but let's pretend she's 17.
And now you are imagining that it's your daughter coming back and jumping on a Hispanic guy who followed her and she began beating the shit out of the guy and got shot dead.
Nope, your daughter (or most rational people) wouldn't do that. Only young men full of piss and fire will do something that goddamn dumb.
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You don't have kids, do you?
Recently here at the campground by the lake there was an attempted kidnapping of a girl about my daughter's age. We now teach our kids to be observant, and in the event someone tries to grab them we teach them to fight fight back and be loud - especially our daughters.
If my daughter was followed by a 28 year old man for twenty minutes, I would expect her to do exactly what Martin did - Flee, and then when confronted try to fight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie
But now...imagine your daughter is 10 years older than 17. She's 27/28 years old (or as you call it "30"). And SHE is on the neighborhood watch and is armed because there have been robberies in the neighborhood.
SHE gets out of her car after calling 911 to report a suspicious person on a rainy night in the neighborhood that has been getting robbed. Nobody else is walking that neighborhood but this one guy wearing a hoodie and walking up in people's yards checking out their houses.
She follows him because she doesn't want to lose sight of him. (or as you call it "stalking")
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I would expect my daughter - or anyone else - to use common sense here, which seems to be lacking over all: You don't get out of your car to follow a potential suspect around in the dark.
And even more so after a 911 operator tells you not to.
And this is where more lies come into play. Setting aside the fact that Zimmerman had multiple chances to identify himself and didn't do so, Zimmerman got out of the car to see... A street sign? He's on the neighborhood watch in a complex that has only three streets - the same complex where he's lived for two or three years? Yeah, that makes complete sense. You would think after two or three years he would know every street and every sidewalk.
Zimmerman didn't go to look for a street sign - Zimmerman chased the kid. The kid was running, and Zimmerman went after him. Zimmerman also said - which was part of evidence at the trial - that once Zimmerman found him, Zimmerman "walked towards him". (This was an audio interview that night at the police station; The following day during the video interview he said Martin jumped out of the bushes from behind him and jumped him - yet I don't think anyone could hide behind the bushes I saw in the video.)
Here's how I think this went down... As is plain from the 911 call, Martin was fully aware of Zimmerman and had circled Zimmerman's truck. Zimmerman failed to identify himself in any way - odd, why wouldn't someone of the neighborhood watch ID himself right from the start? Martin continues on his way, talking on the phone, when he notices Zimmerman is now following him on foot. Martin runs; Zimmerman says this on the 911 tape. Zimmerman goes after him. (He wasn't looking for a street sign - He knew what street he was on and Zimmerman knew the street on the other side of the apartments.) Zimmerman got off the phone with 911, pulls out his handgun, and continues to search for the kid. He finds the kid - just yards from his destination - and confronts him. During the police interview that night Zimmerman said "I walked towards him". Martin, who has been followed for over seventeen minutes, who ran from this man, is now confronted by Zimmerman.
Martin did everything right - he fled, and then when confronted, he fought.
Martin didn't attack him from behind; Zimmerman was punched in the face. For all we know Zimmerman attacked first, but being as Martin is dead he can't tell us his side of the story. Zimmerman must have had his firearm out; He clearly didn't pull the firearm out from under him from under his jacket while Martin was on top of him beating him; That's difficult to do without someone beating on you. Martin was on top of him, but Zimmerman wasn't getting this huge beating that they tried to paint at the trial; Zimmerman got a fat lip and two small cuts on the back of his head.
I've had my daughter do more damage to me by accident.
Zimmerman had multiple run ins with the law, and was a wannabe cop - he was about to graduate with a degree in criminal justice and had applied at least once to a police force. Don't tell me he was going to be an attorney; Why would he apply to a police force if he wanted to be an attorney? Why would he be training at a martial arts gym if he didn't want to be a police officer? Someone who wants to be an attorney doesn't join the neighborhood watch, arm himself, and then chase suspects through the dark?
Zimmerman - who was going to the store that night - was armed not only with a handgun, but also two flashlights.... When he left the truck, he had a firearm, a cell phone, and two flashlights? Who the fuck carries two flashlights with them? I mean, other than a police officer.
And the gym... I watched gym owner testify - what kind of bullshit was that? Zimmerman trained for how long, but had never thrown a punch in the gym? How the fuck is that possible? They don't give you ten months of training before throwing the first punch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie
See, for all your posturing you aren't thinking about the flip side of the coin. You only see what you want to see.
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I am looking at the flip side of the coin.
Let's say that everything Zimmerman has told us is true. In the end, we have a very standard, run of the mill fist fight. You can't shoot and kill someone because of a fist fight. Help was seconds away; Police were on their way and witnesses and were on the scene seconds after Zimmerman shot Martin. All he had to was hold out another five or ten seconds, and instead of being a national villain he would have been a local hero.