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TheSquealer · 05-17-2014, 10:33 PM

Even the wiki page you showed is nothing but ambiguous language such as "some studies suggest that.." kind of wording. Nothing specific or concrete or proven with respect to cats. I actively made an effort to find anything I could and there just isn't much out there on the subject with respect to answering the question of what degree cats possess any sort of limited conscious awareness. It's likely of course in some basic form. But their experience is absolutely nothing like ours to be certain.

I think the best way to describe conscious awareness is as an arbitrator for unconscious processes... and the degree to which we possess consciousness is reflected in the degree to which we can interrupt or moderate the output of unconscious mental processes. In other words, you can show a rat the button to push for food... but make the button shock him. His brain will run two basic innate unconscious programs "go to food" and "escape harm". This leaves him oscillating ... running towards food (the button) and running away from the button, often until it is exhausted because it has no ability to interrupt or moderate those two unconscious processes. Would a cat behave differently? Sure, ... but then you have to answer "why" and there can be countless reasons for that... maybe "escape harm" overrides the other and it walks away.. maybe maybe maybe... yet, well all confidently declare that our own cute little Mr Mittens is just too smart for that.

My point is that no matter to what degree various animals and insects may experience some form of limited self awareness or conscious awareness or experience and display what appears to be some form of emotion.. it is absolutely nothing like what we try to make it out to be. That is our own projection.

Our closest ancestors have a brain 1/3 the size of ours, missing many many many critical mental functions which we possess and are still functioning at the level of a mildly retarded 3 yr old an and are capable of little more than foraging, fighting, fucking and throwing poop. A cat... a dog... that is many many many rungs down the ladder again. Apes are not even developed enough to do something as simple as engage in any form of cooperative behavior... even to save their own lives. That capacity as with countless others just doesn't exist in their brains wiring.

Part of what is happening in situations such as the video, is that our brain is wired to identify causation in everything. Meaning from a survival standpoint, we need to understand "touch fire = get burned". Furthermore, our brains abhor complexity and conscious thinking as it is very slow and costly in terms of energy consumed. It wants one simple answer. It doesn't care about the right answer if it is unimportant and unrelated to something we are focused on. It definitely does not want a complex, multifaceted answer to irrelevant things. Our brain is an organ tasked with a very simple purpose... survive and multiply. If the problem (such as what we observe in the video) is not directly related the brains mission of reproduction and survival, then it quickly dismisses things with any sensible explanation. Think about when a school shooting occurs, the question is always "was it the music... or the video games". People are always looking for that SINGLE answer. Our brain is wired to distill any question into one simple answer so it can move on. It works with what info it has. If it is missing info, it makes that part up. In this case there is the observation of the cat going after the dog after the dog attacks the boy. Our brains are wired to identify "why" and then it moves on. So it quickly creates this "makes sense" type explanation based on what was observed, but it is not rational. It did not come after rational reasoning and examining the facts. It did not come after carefully weighing the evidence. Declaring the cats intention is really just an assumption made instantly and unconsciously (intuition first, reasoning second). The fact is that cats and dogs fight. The fact is that we really don't know what the perception of the cat was in that moment, what prompted the cat to attack the dog (it simply cannot be supported by science to say the cat is defending the kid... it cannot even be proven that a cat understands what a kid is). We do know that cats certainly don't experience the same reality we do with the same level of emotions, attachments, awareness, self awareness etc etc etc. But we certainly love to pretend they do. The issue with the fact that "cats and dogs fight" is that our brain still needs to tidy it up by answering the "why" so it can put it to bed and move on... which is why our brains quickly reason based on what was observed that it was defending the child. A simple, clean, nice, neat and pleasing, feel good explanation.

But with or without the boy, dogs and cats still fight and are mortal enemies... and we have no way of understanding the intention of the cat. It's just a belief that he was motivated to act based on evolved emotions and complex mental processes which it has no ability for.

It all fascinates me a great deal. It also fascinates me that someone can kick a dog and it will cause more outrage than kicking a baby. And of course if a really hot chick kicks either, that's just confusing and all is forgiven. If a Nigerian Muslim extremist set a cat on fire, it would cause more worldwide outrage than 250 missing school kids. That is how irrational we are when it comes to domesticated animals.

05-17-2014, 10:33 PM
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,080	Even the wiki page you showed is nothing but ambiguous language such as "some studies suggest that.." kind of wording. Nothing specific or concrete or proven with respect to cats. I actively made an effort to find anything I could and there just isn't much out there on the subject with respect to answering the question of what degree cats possess any sort of limited conscious awareness. It's likely of course in some basic form. But their experience is absolutely nothing like ours to be certain. I think the best way to describe conscious awareness is as an arbitrator for unconscious processes... and the degree to which we possess consciousness is reflected in the degree to which we can interrupt or moderate the output of unconscious mental processes. In other words, you can show a rat the button to push for food... but make the button shock him. His brain will run two basic innate unconscious programs "go to food" and "escape harm". This leaves him oscillating ... running towards food (the button) and running away from the button, often until it is exhausted because it has no ability to interrupt or moderate those two unconscious processes. Would a cat behave differently? Sure, ... but then you have to answer "why" and there can be countless reasons for that... maybe "escape harm" overrides the other and it walks away.. maybe maybe maybe... yet, well all confidently declare that our own cute little Mr Mittens is just too smart for that. My point is that no matter to what degree various animals and insects may experience some form of limited self awareness or conscious awareness or experience and display what appears to be some form of emotion.. it is absolutely nothing like what we try to make it out to be. That is our own projection. Our closest ancestors have a brain 1/3 the size of ours, missing many many many critical mental functions which we possess and are still functioning at the level of a mildly retarded 3 yr old an and are capable of little more than foraging, fighting, fucking and throwing poop. A cat... a dog... that is many many many rungs down the ladder again. Apes are not even developed enough to do something as simple as engage in any form of cooperative behavior... even to save their own lives. That capacity as with countless others just doesn't exist in their brains wiring. Part of what is happening in situations such as the video, is that our brain is wired to identify causation in everything. Meaning from a survival standpoint, we need to understand "touch fire = get burned". Furthermore, our brains abhor complexity and conscious thinking as it is very slow and costly in terms of energy consumed. It wants one simple answer. It doesn't care about the right answer if it is unimportant and unrelated to something we are focused on. It definitely does not want a complex, multifaceted answer to irrelevant things. Our brain is an organ tasked with a very simple purpose... survive and multiply. If the problem (such as what we observe in the video) is not directly related the brains mission of reproduction and survival, then it quickly dismisses things with any sensible explanation. Think about when a school shooting occurs, the question is always "was it the music... or the video games". People are always looking for that SINGLE answer. Our brain is wired to distill any question into one simple answer so it can move on. It works with what info it has. If it is missing info, it makes that part up. In this case there is the observation of the cat going after the dog after the dog attacks the boy. Our brains are wired to identify "why" and then it moves on. So it quickly creates this "makes sense" type explanation based on what was observed, but it is not rational. It did not come after rational reasoning and examining the facts. It did not come after carefully weighing the evidence. Declaring the cats intention is really just an assumption made instantly and unconsciously (intuition first, reasoning second). The fact is that cats and dogs fight. The fact is that we really don't know what the perception of the cat was in that moment, what prompted the cat to attack the dog (it simply cannot be supported by science to say the cat is defending the kid... it cannot even be proven that a cat understands what a kid is). We do know that cats certainly don't experience the same reality we do with the same level of emotions, attachments, awareness, self awareness etc etc etc. But we certainly love to pretend they do. The issue with the fact that "cats and dogs fight" is that our brain still needs to tidy it up by answering the "why" so it can put it to bed and move on... which is why our brains quickly reason based on what was observed that it was defending the child. A simple, clean, nice, neat and pleasing, feel good explanation. But with or without the boy, dogs and cats still fight and are mortal enemies... and we have no way of understanding the intention of the cat. It's just a belief that he was motivated to act based on evolved emotions and complex mental processes which it has no ability for. It all fascinates me a great deal. It also fascinates me that someone can kick a dog and it will cause more outrage than kicking a baby. And of course if a really hot chick kicks either, that's just confusing and all is forgiven. If a Nigerian Muslim extremist set a cat on fire, it would cause more worldwide outrage than 250 missing school kids. That is how irrational we are when it comes to domesticated animals. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard Last edited by TheSquealer; 05-17-2014 at 10:34 PM..