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Originally Posted by Robbie
crockett you are really making a fool out of yourself in this thread.
I will ask one more time: What do you think about what Gruber said in that video? Especially in the context of what the President promised about televising the writing of the bill on CSPAN and being 100% transparent.
That's not "talking points" and it's not "Fox News" or anything else. It's not me "giving my opinion" either.
I'm asking you straight up about what you make of this situation. Nothing about Republicans, nothing about "talking points". Just the President's own words from 2008/2009, the resulting manner in which the bill was written and passed, and the words coming straight from the mouth of Gruber.
That is the topic of this thread.
Please act civilized and tell us what you think.
Are you "stupid" like Gruber called you because you're one of the people who fell for it?
Or do you think Gruber is a piece of shit?
Or are you of the persuasion that you think it's the right thing to do?
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Pretty sure he answered it on page one but since you were too busy giving your fellow Republicans (oh sorry, the new name you guys go with is Libertarian's) a circle jerk I'll answer.
And to start a question for you… Did you even take the time to watch the full video? Or just skip to the 18 min mark and watch the sound bite on all the major news sites? Kind of important as it puts into context the major point you have such an issue with.
Yeah he called the American voter stupid. And yeah he's correct. The American voter is stupid. Not sure how that is a debate. We're the only first world country where man made climate change is even in debate. A ridiculous percentage believes in fairies for gods sake. This guy is a MIT professor of economics. He's smarter than you and everyone on this board. And he's a hell of a lot smarter than 99% of the Republicans in congress.
As with all bills if you want to get it passed you cannot be transparent. Taxes don't go over well, no matter how much you need them. This is true for all politics, not simply the ACA. Hell this goes for everything, including adult sites. Transparency doesn't sell. Promoting the positive sells. They believed in the bill and wanted to get it passed. They knew that if the CBO labeled the bill as a tax it stood no chance of passing. So they wrote it differently. The only mistake Gruber made was explaining how American politics works. And ironically now all of the stupid people that he was referencing are up in arms.
And the ACA is a good start. Is it perfect? No. But the main intent is to get US citizens who are not covered, covered and provide preventative care. This lowers health care costs over time. Factor in the exchanges and the citizens right to choose between companies and rates will eventually lower. Yes, the more affluent may have to pay more initially, but the entire populace covered and getting preventative care is good for the country and economy. Instead of working to repeal the law, congress should be working together to make the law better. Providing access to preventative health care for the segment of the population that cannot afford it is good for the country.
And for the question brought up by your circle jerk partner earlier. I did not receive a subsidy. I was paying $1600 a month for a family of 5 before. I used the NV exchanges and am now paying $1285 and have a much better plan. I could have chosen a similar plan for $870, almost half what I was paying. I know many people with similar circumstances.
Gruber's full quote referencing stupidity…
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This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure [the Congressional Budget Office] did not score the mandate as taxes. If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies. OK? So it's written to do that. In terms of risk-rated subsidies, if you had a law which said healthy people are going to pay in — you made explicit that healthy people pay in and sick people get money — it would not have passed. OK? Lack of transparency is a huge political advantage. And basically, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically that was really, really critical to get the thing to pass. Look, I wish ... we could make it all transparent, but I'd rather have this law than not.
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