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Originally Posted by slapass
Everyone knows it is a good thing.
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Yeah, except it's not.
It's being sold to Americans as a job creator but its not. The truth is that it creates a few temporary jobs as it sells you guys extremely dirty and extremely dangerous energy from CANADA.
Not even Canadians outside of the industry are behind this fiasco. Every smart person here hopes president Obama veto's this fucking thing.
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Originally Posted by slapass
Is there clean oil?
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No, but this is the dirtiest of the dirt.
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Originally Posted by suesheboy
We don't need to burn the worst oil. We should stop burning oil.
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Correct. Burning oil especially for electricity is old school crap sold to your grandparents.
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Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam
Why dnon't they just use/or add capacity of the existing northern route -- looks like it is near the Williston Basin where there is USA produced oil ...
The southern extension make sense to Houston and Port Aurther.
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And / or at least, move the pipeline away from the Aquifer, the water base that supplies millions of Americans with fresh, renewable drinking water. But republicans won't have it, noooOOoo...
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Originally Posted by suesheboy
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The Alberta Tar sands is Canada's biggest embarrassment and one of the biggest ugliest polluters. I would love to see these fuckers shut down.
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Originally Posted by slapass
This is a dumb argument. It is being pumped, refined and used. The question is how to transport it.
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It's not a dumb argument. The US does not need to buy this energy from us. I'm no fan of oil and fracking but this Canadian Tarsand shit is fucking awful. If this goes through you will suck more CO2 into the atmosphere than ever before. They Keystone Pipeline benefits only the ultra-rich, no one else.
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Originally Posted by bronco67
Republicans want this so badly because it's going to make some their friends very rich.
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That is exactly right.
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Originally Posted by crockett
Why can't can't Canadians just refine it them selves?
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Because it is cheaper and safer to be have this garbage refined in your country. (Sorry, just sayin')
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Originally Posted by crockett
The simple fact is they just want to pump it across the US to then sell it on the open market. It's not like the oil will be refined and used in the US. Meaning we get next to no benefit in the US for that pipeline, yet we carry all the risk of spills and cleanups with no real benifit.
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That's right. Energy produced by Keystone will actually go to the US Market. It will all be sold. The Keystone Pipleline is good only for an extremely few number of people. "Job Creation" based on the XL pipeline is a lie.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
It will create a fair amount of short term construction jobs, and of course any jobs are good for the economy.
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No that is not true. Green energy is better for the economy. The XL Pipe is good for Canadians, not Americans. The jobs it creates are few and temporary.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
Discussions about the environmental impact are silly.
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No my friend, this is really different. The pipe isn't transporting regular oil or natural gas. Pollution from tar sands oil greatly eclipses that of conventional oil. During tar sands oil production alone, levels of carbon dioxide emissions are three to four times higher than those of conventional oil, due to more energy-intensive extraction and refining processes. The Keystone XL pipeline would carry 830,000 barrels of dirty tar sands oil into the United States daily, and result in climate-damaging emissions equal to adding more than 5.6 million new cars to U.S. road.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
People don't know this, but early all gas / oil isn't shipped via truck, but by pipeline. For example, gas in Phoenix is really made in California and shipped by pipeline. When the pipeline broke one year, it caused a huge gas shortage. But the environmental impact was nil - when the pipeline broke, it broke and they fixed it; It didn't dump millions of barrels anywhere. These pipelines criss-cross the United States and it's not an environmental issue at all.
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True but again this isn't regular oil or gas. This is something extra thick requiring higher pressures, and this is extra toxic.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
If Canada needs to refine it's oil.... Why wouldn't it just send it to Minnesota, which is one of the top five states for refining oil? Make no mistake about it - this is not about refining oil, it's about transporting it. They are going to pass this oil through the United States and sell it elsewhere.
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I don;t know for sure but I think the reason is just "off shore" labour. In Montreal east there used to be over a dozen oil refineries: Esso, Texaco, BP, etc. Growing up as a kid near them my neighbourhood was surrounded by smoke stacks spewing out black smoke from these places. Over the years the number of smoke stacks have been reduced to almost none while the factories replaced with empty lots and (ack - green spaces and parks!). Maybe, Canada is ditching the refineries and moving all that shitty dirty work down south.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
If that's not enough... It seems most of the pipeline is already built and in place and running.
So...
- More jobs
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No.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
- More money in the US (to maintain and run the pipeline, then to refine it)
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No, less money. You guys have to buy that shit from us.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
- More money in taxes
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I bet you $100 that the oil companies refining this crap get tax exceptions.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
- Zero to little environmental impact
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I wish, but no... this is is another fuck-you to the environment I'm sure. I'd bet you but I'd hate to win this one.
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Originally Posted by Rochard
Just build it already.
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Nooo!!! Just kill it already. No one needs it. Why does the US need to buy more energy when you are already producing so much? Currently, we have an extreme excess of this shit that we don't know what to do with. Canada sold the US on this crap with a really sweet deal that will be "refined" and marked-up like crazy to consumers while fat cats grin. Why not sell your own energy instead? No - the XL Pipeline is some greedy SOB's plan to make more money with a dirt-cheap, and very dirty product. Say No to the XL Pipeline.