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Originally Posted by thommy
lot First let me say, that I appreciate this level of discussion much more than calling names on each other
Well, with turkey we did quite good what might be a result of living with them in our countries and many Europeans went to their countries for holidays. So at least we know a LITTLE BIT more about their culture.
But anyway - the problems in Turkey are damned difficult and hard to understand. At least there are no Turkish terrorists yet but that will change when Erdogan gets what he wants because the separation between religion and the state will have an end and terror will come closer.
The MAJORITY of turks living in Europe is peaceful and most of them are integrated completely. I personally know many of them (even in our industry) what i trust more than any German, because they stand for their word and are multicultural open minded.
The gray wolf-problem is as old as immigration in Europe and we had FAR more problems with native radicals from left and right as with them.
in the first view that sounds like the only senseful solution but it is a short-term solution because it does not resolve the problem.
This people will possibly go back into their countries but there they will infect others with their hate and they will use religion for it - the strongest weapon they have.
For my understanding, we can´t resolve this problem in a decade because we do not even see it with the full consequences yet. This is similar to the environment problems where we can´t see the full effect today - but our children will.
Furthermore, we have to understand and accept that this problem has it´s roots in foreign interventions in THEIR COUNTRIES - so we are guilty too and can´t blame them alone.
We have to stop that shit to allow the involvement of individual economic interests in global politics.
And last not least in a longterm strategy, we should find a way to take power from religion by educating people with modern knowledge about the origin of the earth and of mankind. Religions are for stupid people who do not have better answers - and that makes it dangerous.
With other words: We have to brainwash them before they brainwash us.
In regards of "sending people home" I might think more radical as you - because I would prefer to lock them in and brainwash them or let them locked in til they die.
We have a lot of examples from German terrorists from the 60s and 70s who "woke up" in prison and are now the most powerful language tubes against violence and terror. In fact left terror (what was one of the biggest problems in Germany in the 60s and 70s) is not existing in Germany anymore. BTW: Tunisia is planning such a solution for the unwanted they HAVE to take back (the last german terror attack was actually caused by Tunisian government because they did not take this wanker back and Germany was not prepared for such a circumstance.
All we can see in the history is, that hate and force are producing more of it - a cycle that can´t be stopped. If we really look for a long term solution we need patience and smart minds. We do not need another radical on our end because that would cause a millenium of growing terror.
Look the americans found Bin Laden and killed him - the americans killed another few hundert leaders of Al Kaida, ISIS, Boku Haram and all the other terror groups - WHAT DID IT CHANGE ? We have MORE terror as we had before and with each one we kill 100 new ones will show up. So this method is already classified "unsmart an noneffective".
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I have no quilt feeling with countries that got invaded. That was most of the time #notmypresident i choosed for. The majority of people vote for parties for their views on national level, healthcare, wellfare, social security and don't look further. I never cared if i get 500 or 5000 more or less, i look if they have good plans overall. I voted many times left, middle, right and non-of-the-above.
You know 15 years ago Pim Fortuyn was the big evil white man! He was the new hitler. And now 15 years left and right wing parties said he had it right on many points...
I read about the theory letting the war criminals in and try to make them see things differently. And yes, it worked in history many times. They also let drug traffickers tell their story in classrooms, that also helps (other subject). In Holland there are at least 100 IS or other terrorist that came back. Hard to proof the fought, so if they say they where on holiday they just can come back and get the help they want. Especially left wing politicians choose that solution. But in the end, it doesn't stop, they don't change their mind. If you want people that can change the mind of others, let only the terrorist back that realy regret what they did and want to tell their story. Don't let in the ones that are only coming back to recrute more people and money. Evey week you see a list of hate-imans (that is how they call them here) coming to Holland to spread there poison.
It might work, but i prefer the hard way, just don't let them in. Stop financing of mosques from foreign countries, control the schools. Because everytime there is a muslim school, there is shit. And to be honest, i don't want Islam schools. Just like i don't want jewish schools. That religion must end, seperate eductaion from religion. It only seperates people. The Muslims schools that tried to open one alway had problems; radicals leading it, unclear who financed it, bad quality, fraud, etcetra etcetra, etcetra. Again the blind eye of the government and the feeling we must 'pamper' them. In many schools in Holland teachers don't even mention WWII, anymore when there are muslim people in the class. Afraid of the reactions they get. So how are you going to educate them when you can't even teach them the basics of history?
Clear is that something much change, cause this doesn't work anymore.