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VRPdommy · 11-15-2018, 09:57 AM

When folks talk about Hydrogen in motor vehicles, often there is a disconnect as we are not always talking about the same thing.
Pure hydrogen is expensive to produce. I did see some promising work discovered about 10 years ago in some medical research using gold at near a atomic level in with water that was being bombarded with high levels of radio waves to separate the 2 hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom per molecule. To get pure hydrogen this would have to be separated more. But there are other ways to produce pure hydrogen.

But that is called HHO in the real world. And much of that is what is used in direct burning as a gas in internal combustion engines.
Cheaper to produce but still expensive. As clean as it gets to burn (only water produced) but maybe not depending on how you produce the HHO.

Methane or Natural gas is pleasantly abundant right now and cheap. At least until all the liquefied exports to the EU get moving and we are short again.
You could reasonably convert all vehicles in the US to run on methane and we could export 80% of oil produced here in the us.
They do currently have a program of burning Nat Gas in diesel trucks/tractor-trailers but still require some diesel petrol for about 20%. Mainly for fleet use.

Hydrogen and methane fuel cells can be clean electric power plants that can be portable or large and stationary. Great standby power if you power is interrupted a lot. Google it.

When I was deeply involved in my solar research, I found a guy back in the 90's 80 miles from civilization (in the US west) with money to burn who was using solar to produce HHO and storing it at low pressure in more than a dozen 500 gallon propane tanks.
He cooked with it directly (about 300btu per cubic foot) He used batteries to store 'some' of the solar electric on a daily supply need (overnight) but had generators that ran on the HHO for extended demand or days of overcast sky.
He heater the water with HHO and air for a few chilly nights.

One could do the same based on his model a lot cheaper now-a-days but still requires some real estate to do. His solar array, tanks and these unique spheres he made for the de-mineralized water HHO production probably require about 3/4 of a acre.

I was very inspired to all the thought he placed into it. Very simple and practical thinking and could be made smaller in size.

I still say 'all of the above' is the only sane thing to do here.
The markets will find answers if you allow them. It's a national security issue that can't wait for the last minute need to work itself out.

Sorry to say, nobody seems interested in this stuff till what they currently use gets into their pocket.

EDIT: in the case you did not catch it, I was suggesting above that the use of Nat Gas/Methane is a good measure than can be implemented right now in a slower incremental way to reduce the need for imports and diversify our energy dependency as we develop better more cost effective methods. But do nothing till you have to, and it will cost you dearly.

11-15-2018, 09:57 AM
VRPdommy Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 10,969	When folks talk about Hydrogen in motor vehicles, often there is a disconnect as we are not always talking about the same thing. Pure hydrogen is expensive to produce. I did see some promising work discovered about 10 years ago in some medical research using gold at near a atomic level in with water that was being bombarded with high levels of radio waves to separate the 2 hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom per molecule. To get pure hydrogen this would have to be separated more. But there are other ways to produce pure hydrogen. But that is called HHO in the real world. And much of that is what is used in direct burning as a gas in internal combustion engines. Cheaper to produce but still expensive. As clean as it gets to burn (only water produced) but maybe not depending on how you produce the HHO. Methane or Natural gas is pleasantly abundant right now and cheap. At least until all the liquefied exports to the EU get moving and we are short again. You could reasonably convert all vehicles in the US to run on methane and we could export 80% of oil produced here in the us. They do currently have a program of burning Nat Gas in diesel trucks/tractor-trailers but still require some diesel petrol for about 20%. Mainly for fleet use. Hydrogen and methane fuel cells can be clean electric power plants that can be portable or large and stationary. Great standby power if you power is interrupted a lot. Google it. When I was deeply involved in my solar research, I found a guy back in the 90's 80 miles from civilization (in the US west) with money to burn who was using solar to produce HHO and storing it at low pressure in more than a dozen 500 gallon propane tanks. He cooked with it directly (about 300btu per cubic foot) He used batteries to store 'some' of the solar electric on a daily supply need (overnight) but had generators that ran on the HHO for extended demand or days of overcast sky. He heater the water with HHO and air for a few chilly nights. One could do the same based on his model a lot cheaper now-a-days but still requires some real estate to do. His solar array, tanks and these unique spheres he made for the de-mineralized water HHO production probably require about 3/4 of a acre. I was very inspired to all the thought he placed into it. Very simple and practical thinking and could be made smaller in size. I still say 'all of the above' is the only sane thing to do here. The markets will find answers if you allow them. It's a national security issue that can't wait for the last minute need to work itself out. Sorry to say, nobody seems interested in this stuff till what they currently use gets into their pocket. EDIT: in the case you did not catch it, I was suggesting above that the use of Nat Gas/Methane is a good measure than can be implemented right now in a slower incremental way to reduce the need for imports and diversify our energy dependency as we develop better more cost effective methods. But do nothing till you have to, and it will cost you dearly.