Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbie
Did you happen to see this part in my last post? And what do you think of that:
"Two things have prevented major production of hydrogen-powered cars until now: the cost, and producing the hydrogen in the first place. Until recently, the platinum catalyst that splits the hydrogen into an ion and an electron has been prohibitively expensive.
Up to a few years ago, hydrogen fuel cells cost around $1000 for every kilowatt of power they generated – or around $100,000 per car. There were various avenues of research into how to bring the cost down, including work at Lawrence Berkley Laboratories on replacing the platinum catalyst with a platinum-nickel alloy that was 90 times more efficient.
By last year, US Department of Energy reported that it had got the cost down to $61 per kilowatt – far closer to the target cost of $30. One further possibility being explored by Ballard Power Systems is enhancing the platinum with carbon silk. This is expected to bring a 30% reduction in cost with no loss of performance."
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The cost of a fuel cell and the cost of producing and distributing hydrogen.
They are 2 matters that effect this being a consumer staple.
First you should know it takes 80 kilowatts to power a small car. about 90-120 for a mid-sized sedan. 140-190 for a pick-up/suv. (somewhat close as the weight keeps changing as they make newer models)
So take that cost per kilowatt and multiply based on the data you have shown. I have not seen that myself but something similar but not the same and that was a few years ago.
The DOE does not make cells nor do R&D on them. Companies do.
So, I'm not sure who 'they' are.
But you are probably looking at the cost to make (without profit or operational costs).
Just the cost to make the cell.
The major advancements came in around 2005 in technique but were not realize in cost of actual production until recently. You can figure out a better way to do something but it is a new thing to figure out how to mass produce it accurately and cost effectively.
But it's the cost of making the hydrogen and moreover the cost of distribution.
It's not like it has a liquid state that we can handle like LP or even Oxygen. It liquefies at -423F
It has to be handled like compressed natural gas.
A CNG station can compress their own at the station with a gas pipe supply, a non ferrous multi stage high pressure compressor and a storage tank. But could compress and fill at the same time but that takes much longer to fill.
It's the cars storage gets to be the same issue for both CNG & Hydrogen.
Those high pressure tanks for onboard storage cost about $1200 for a 3-4 gallon tank and are very heavy. Your not going very far on one tank. You need two for a medium range.
That is where many advancements has come about the last dozen years. New light weight high pressure tanks made of aluminum & carbon fiber composite materials. But have given some safety issues compared with large heavy steel cylinders. They have been experimenting with special carbon/graphite nanotubes inside of the tanks to arrange the methane molecules in the composite tanks better to actually get 20-35% more in them. Not sure if that can be done with Hydrogen but I personally doubt it since hydrogen is the most basic molecule/atom and isn't going to be rearranged.
Now think of the fueling station needs and how much compressed gas a truck might be able to carry to re-fill the station. A busy one would need a constant flow of trucks.
CNG is stored at either 3000psi or 3600psi. Not sure what they are using for Hydrogen but suspect it to be similar just because of the tanks limits. Nat Gas can be liquefied and is being liquefied for export. It's kinda pricey to do that but apparently profitable to export to certain areas who have little to no choice. Not sure how they will address this problem but they will.
We are close but we are just not there yet. The more progress we make in some areas puts pressure on other aspects of the whole equation.
It will be there in 10 years and we have and will continue to have more products, but it's just not cost effective 'yet'. I'm not giving up. I'm hopeful as I have been since the 90's.
But it is what it is.
Competition will ultimately bring the cost down as we find new/better methods of doing the same. That is unless merger and acquisition have their say.
Look how cheap it may seem if oil moves over $120 bl ! It will help keep that in 'check'.
But know this threatens the electric power industry and I'm sure they will throw something into this to monkey it up, just as they have with solar and the oil co's have over the years. So they have 2 industry's poised to make it fail.
So... that's what 'I Think', like it or not. I'm not a nay sayer, just a realist. I've been watch'n this for a long time. Even played with some small experimental fuel cells.
EDIT: I should add that once there are FCV on the road, anyone can produce hydrogen for sale.
That will bring the cost down. Gotta start with the need before we can produce the supply.