Quote:
Originally Posted by amaron
It seems that some of you are not taking your prescribed medication :-)
Anyway, it is clear that you have not discussed this matter with your lawyers at all and you do not have even a minimal knowledge of commercial law.
If the bankruptcy is really carefully prepared, the debtor will at least occasionally pay someone during the accumulation of money so that his intention is not proven in court. Then it is realistic that he will get out of the whole matter without any punishment.
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Under U.S. law, trying to “hide bad intent” by making token payments to certain creditors is not enough to avoid liability. On the contrary, such actions may be seen as bankruptcy fraud, which can lead to:
denial of discharge,
criminal penalties including fines and imprisonment,
loss of assets.
Real-life cases – court rulings
✔️ In re Retz (9th Cir., 2010):
The debtor failed to disclose all assets and claimed he “forgot.” The court found he acted in bad faith. The discharge was denied.
✔️ In re Adeeb (9th Cir., 1988):
The debtor transferred assets before filing for bankruptcy, then tried to bring them back. Even though he claimed to have “good intentions,” the court ruled that the intent to conceal had already occurred, so the discharge was denied.
⚖️ 2. Occasional payments don’t protect against fraud charges
Just because someone makes occasional payments to selected individuals, that doesn't protect them if:
they’re selectively repaying friends or family (preferential transfers),
transfers are meant to move assets beyond the trustee’s reach,
payments were made just before filing (e.g., within the 90-day lookback period). //take in mind that ccbill pay all time money in USA and we all are subject to ccbill in usa
➡️ The bankruptcy trustee can:
recover those funds,
refer the case for criminal prosecution,
request denial of discharge.
�� 1. U.S. courts investigate the debtor’s intent
In the U.S., deliberately planning bankruptcy to hide assets or defraud creditors can result in:
dismissal of the bankruptcy case (meaning the debtor loses legal protection),
denial of discharge,
criminal prosecution (e.g., for fraud or concealment of assets).
➡️ Legal basis:
11 U.S.C. § 727(a)(2) – prohibits discharge if the debtor tried to hide, transfer, or destroy assets to defraud creditors or the trustee,
18 U.S.C. § 152 – criminal offense for false statements, asset concealment, or fraud in bankruptcy (up to 5 years in prison).
BUT
However, since the damage occurred in Europe, the contractual clause regarding the choice of court loses its relevance.
Therefore:
Jurisdiction (i.e. where to file the lawsuit): There is a legal basis under an EU regulation that allows us to establish jurisdiction within the EU.
Applicable law: This is more complicated. Different combinations are possible. By default, we indicate domestic law. In practice, when a court accepts such an objection, it usually appoints an expert in the relevant foreign law.
Additionally:
You're aware of third-party factors. You know that AV is coming, and it will eventually affect all of us — in fact, it’s already starting. We have no chance of competing with thieves and mafia backed by the AV industry. And AV itself makes no sense at all — it’s just a tool to control the internet (but that’s a separate topic).
Every lost customer is potentially lost for good. That’s why we all hope what others are saying is actually true: that due to the loss of mass payment options in Europe, CCBill is unable to transfer funds to us. Mass payment was lost due to procedural changes in Europe.
Notice that every U.S. company seems to have no issue with payments. Of course, some of us have already started or switched to a second payment processor. However, the fact remains: CCBill owes us money.
Even in a situation where we already have a new operator or are in the process of switching, it is still important to recover the money that CCBill owes us. It’s clear that you don’t have much knowledge about lawsuits. Lawsuits cost money and take years. That’s why sometimes it’s better to wait than to get worked up.
Moreover, the lawsuit will not be only about the money we lost but also about the damages caused (as I mentioned, the court is here in Europe, so we can confidently seek such compensation). And once again: a lawsuit costs money. In my country, it is 5% of the amount we want to recover. So for every 100 euros, I have to pay 5 euros up front, plus cover translation and lawyer fees.
Regarding the medications:
You were asked many times which operator you switched to, but each time you ignored the question.
You created a second account to write as "a different person."
I’m not saying you’re wrong in your predictions and maybe this really will be bankruptcy, but these two facts I just pointed out affect your credibility.