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CDSmith · 09-30-2001, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by Gemini:
Ummmm WHY fake something that is SO hurtful to the very gender that you expect sex from?

For someone who seems pretty smart, this is a fairly ignorant question.

Arguing FOR this subject...

Hold on sister redhead. Where do you get the idea that anyone here is arguing FOR the concept of rape? I find the idea of rape to be utterly distasteful, as do I find the idea of killing someone in any way utterly distasteful. I also find those that use their own twist on arguments to further the cause of hindering free artistic expression to be just as distasteful, which you are now doing. When I run across a website or a movie that I find distasteful to me, I simply exercise my God-given right to not view it, and to go elsewhere. Weren't many of these points already made and dealt with on this thread? Not clearly enough for you I suppose.

so as to cater to a handful of surfers that are already prone to this subject might very well BE encouraging them enough to commit the crime.

Gee, again we should all be afraid of what "may very well be". Just as there are fantasy websites, so to are there scenes of rape & murder and violence on many many movies and TV shows. How far are you going to take this useless argument of yours?

So for a few doallrs to the pocket you are willing to even take a chance???

I don't see you shutting down your evil porn sites any time soon. They too may contribute to someone's delinquency, but life goes on, correct? Gem, you sound like the fantasy police here.

Argue the laws all you want. Its not illegal to shoot missiles at Mars either, but what might the results be if its done?

This type of analogy looks flashy on the surface, but anyone with a brain the size of a quarter-pounder with cheese will see through it as empty. Fact is, the laws are right now being stretched and twisted in ways you can't even imagine, all to suit the agenda of a FEW holier-than-thou moralists who actually want ALL of our sites off the internet. Please get a clue on this, I beg you. (wake the hell up)

We may never know those results. As far as faked CP? Seen it. The girls that look 15, that ARE 18 could very well encourage the peds to attack that 15 year old next door. But hey, thats not YOUR prob right?

Actually you're wrong here too. No, you're right about the faked CP and it's existance, but you're wrong about it not being my "prob." I've likely reported just as many CP sites as anyone here, for one thing. For another, if you were to make a movie containing sex with minors, and recruited 18 year-old girls and boys that looked younger to play the parts and depicted them in graphic sex scenes you'd likely get arrested anyway. All CP is illegal, and so is anything that implies CP including the hypothetical movie in this example.

BUT, including scenes of violence, rape or murder in a movie is not illegal if it's fantasy play-acting by consenting adults. If it wasn't legal, then you better go out and arrest Sharon Stone for her role in basic instinct, because that movie had it all baby. I've helped to amass a list a MILE long of movies that contain all that content and worse. All fantasy, all totally legal, yet my brother's movies containing similar f/x with NO sex are illegal? Now you know why we are suing on the grounds of selective prosecution for 10 million bucks.

I can't wait until the Feds get time to enforce the few laws they have that DO cover obscenity. Gone will be the so called fantasy murder-rape-beasty-severe bondage sites.

Believe what you want. The real facts are that the two precidents set in Canada covering this subject specifically say that movies (entertainment, websites too) that contain violence + sex in the EXTEME END OF THE SPECTRUM will almost always be in violation (illegal) but not always. That's from the Regina vs Butler decision. If you're talking about my brother's special f/x site, then this language doesn't apply, because there is no sex on that site, only simple nudity. The question then becomes Is simple nudity now considered to be extreme sex? Right there you are stretching a law to suit your own purpose and so are the cops.

The other precident is from R vs Sharpe, and it defines what is illegal as the law pertains to CP, and in this case simple nudity can in SOME cases be considered as sex, thus illegal. But again, only as it pertains to underage minors, <u>not</u> movies with consenting adults. Sorry, you're out of luck there too.

More power to them! Insomuch as their dictating that a female isn't allowed to use a popbottle... well thats a lil more of an open subject that involves NO known laws that I am aware of.

Yet there are people that want it banned and made illegal everywhere. Do you see how cheering on the proponents of censorship only shoots yourself in the foot in the long run?

Tying IS a form of kidnap

So you want all movies and sites where consenting adults are acting out these fantasies to be banned too? You should have been a cop Gem, you'd make a good one. What do you base the above statement on? If it's fantasy role-playing among consenting adults, what right do you have to go crapping on them? Who exactly do you think you are Gem? Why is it that YOUR opinion should be the right one here?

animal IS a crime of nature (see necrophilia)

What does bestiality (proper term, not "animal") have to do with necrophilia? Enlighten me officer Gem.
I agree however that bestiality should be illegal everywhere, because like CP it is not conducted by consenting adults.

murder-rape (even fantasy) IS femae degradation under US Fed laws.

Nope, not fantasy, sorry. For one thing, the FBI looked closely at my brother's site and deemed it to be legal under US law. For another thing, if your statement was true there would be thousands of movies of both big and small budgets pulled from circulation.

And, why is it only FEMALE degredation when there are also thousands of movies and sites that show scenes where men too are being shot, stabbed, impaled, tied up, tortured, degraded, and sodomized against their will etc etc etc but that get's not so much as a byline from you? Now why is that?

Want the laws? Look 'em up. Ignorance IS no excuse doncha know.

I have looked them up. I've been ready to present my defense to a real judge (not judge Gemini) for many months now. The holdup in our case is that the prosecution side is realizing slowly that they don't have the case they thought they did, so now they are negotiating with us to drop some of it. They have egg on their faces, and they have wasted taxpayer's money to the tune of a few million now, for nothing, and they've disrupted and crapped all over a lot of good people too. But that's no sweat off your back, right Gem?

For you guys that think alot of women run around with that fantasy... I feel for you.

Feel all you want. A good % of paying members at such sites ARE WOMEN, and not just any women either. From what I've seen in my limited travels through a few of these sites, many of the members are lawyers, doctors, politicians, retired cops, government officials, and many people in managerial positions. Surprise surprise how many people indulge their little private fantasies online and in the movie rental shops.

Sorry that you were born with twisted brains or that maybe your Dad bounced you once too often.

Yes, resort back to the smartass to drive your point forward, that'll win em over.

Good one Gem. I too am sorry, to see that such an intelligent woman as yourself is so utterly ignorant of what is right and wrong, so utterly blind to the fact that you are not only promoting censorship of free thought & expression but you are helping those that want to eventually wipe out our own part of the industry. (mainstream porn as it were). To me this makes no sense at all.

For others... I'll be the redhead in the back of the court cheering when the verdict comes down as GUILTY.

Yes, you've said this before luv. What will you be doing when the virdict is the opposite? I don't know about other cases, but we've all but won ours already, it's just a matter of getting through the process. Gem, you really should have been at some of the latest proceedings on this case. There is so much to this case that someone on the sidelines like you will never know Gem, and it's really sad that you have been so quick to condemn without all the facts. You of all people should know that in order to make an INFORMED decision about anything you need ALL the facts. Anything less is uncivilized, not to mention conjecture couched in ignorance.

Now, an intelligent person would come back here and admit that on some levels maybe they were wrong, and start finding out exactly what the real facts are before jumping to judgements. The question is, are you really intelligent, or are you merely pretending?

[This message has been edited by CDSmith (edited 09-30-2001).]

09-30-2001, 07:39 PM
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	Originally posted by Gemini: Ummmm WHY fake something that is SO hurtful to the very gender that you expect sex from? For someone who seems pretty smart, this is a fairly ignorant question. Arguing FOR this subject... Hold on sister redhead. Where do you get the idea that anyone here is arguing FOR the concept of rape? I find the idea of rape to be utterly distasteful, as do I find the idea of killing someone in any way utterly distasteful. I also find those that use their own twist on arguments to further the cause of hindering free artistic expression to be just as distasteful, which you are now doing. When I run across a website or a movie that I find distasteful to me, I simply exercise my God-given right to not view it, and to go elsewhere. Weren't many of these points already made and dealt with on this thread? Not clearly enough for you I suppose. so as to cater to a handful of surfers that are already prone to this subject might very well BE encouraging them enough to commit the crime. Gee, again we should all be afraid of what "may very well be". Just as there are fantasy websites, so to are there scenes of rape & murder and violence on many many movies and TV shows. How far are you going to take this useless argument of yours? So for a few doallrs to the pocket you are willing to even take a chance??? I don't see you shutting down your evil porn sites any time soon. They too may contribute to someone's delinquency, but life goes on, correct? Gem, you sound like the fantasy police here. Argue the laws all you want. Its not illegal to shoot missiles at Mars either, but what might the results be if its done? This type of analogy looks flashy on the surface, but anyone with a brain the size of a quarter-pounder with cheese will see through it as empty. Fact is, the laws are right now being stretched and twisted in ways you can't even imagine, all to suit the agenda of a FEW holier-than-thou moralists who actually want ALL of our sites off the internet. Please get a clue on this, I beg you. (wake the hell up) We may never know those results. As far as faked CP? Seen it. The girls that look 15, that ARE 18 could very well encourage the peds to attack that 15 year old next door. But hey, thats not YOUR prob right? Actually you're wrong here too. No, you're right about the faked CP and it's existance, but you're wrong about it not being my "prob." I've likely reported just as many CP sites as anyone here, for one thing. For another, if you were to make a movie containing sex with minors, and recruited 18 year-old girls and boys that looked younger to play the parts and depicted them in graphic sex scenes you'd likely get arrested anyway. All CP is illegal, and so is anything that implies CP including the hypothetical movie in this example. BUT, including scenes of violence, rape or murder in a movie is not illegal if it's fantasy play-acting by consenting adults. If it wasn't legal, then you better go out and arrest Sharon Stone for her role in basic instinct, because that movie had it all baby. I've helped to amass a list a MILE long of movies that contain all that content and worse. All fantasy, all totally legal, yet my brother's movies containing similar f/x with NO sex are illegal? Now you know why we are suing on the grounds of selective prosecution for 10 million bucks. I can't wait until the Feds get time to enforce the few laws they have that DO cover obscenity. Gone will be the so called fantasy murder-rape-beasty-severe bondage sites. Believe what you want. The real facts are that the two precidents set in Canada covering this subject specifically say that movies (entertainment, websites too) that contain violence + sex in the EXTEME END OF THE SPECTRUM will almost always be in violation (illegal) but not always. That's from the Regina vs Butler decision. If you're talking about my brother's special f/x site, then this language doesn't apply, because there is no sex on that site, only simple nudity. The question then becomes Is simple nudity now considered to be extreme sex? Right there you are stretching a law to suit your own purpose and so are the cops. The other precident is from R vs Sharpe, and it defines what is illegal as the law pertains to CP, and in this case simple nudity can in SOME cases be considered as sex, thus illegal. But again, only as it pertains to underage minors, <u>not</u> movies with consenting adults. Sorry, you're out of luck there too. More power to them! Insomuch as their dictating that a female isn't allowed to use a popbottle... well thats a lil more of an open subject that involves NO known laws that I am aware of. Yet there are people that want it banned and made illegal everywhere. Do you see how cheering on the proponents of censorship only shoots yourself in the foot in the long run? Tying IS a form of kidnap So you want all movies and sites where consenting adults are acting out these fantasies to be banned too? You should have been a cop Gem, you'd make a good one. What do you base the above statement on? If it's fantasy role-playing among consenting adults, what right do you have to go crapping on them? Who exactly do you think you are Gem? Why is it that YOUR opinion should be the right one here? animal IS a crime of nature (see necrophilia) What does bestiality (proper term, not "animal") have to do with necrophilia? Enlighten me officer Gem. I agree however that bestiality should be illegal everywhere, because like CP it is not conducted by consenting adults. murder-rape (even fantasy) IS femae degradation under US Fed laws. Nope, not fantasy, sorry. For one thing, the FBI looked closely at my brother's site and deemed it to be legal under US law. For another thing, if your statement was true there would be thousands of movies of both big and small budgets pulled from circulation. And, why is it only FEMALE degredation when there are also thousands of movies and sites that show scenes where men too are being shot, stabbed, impaled, tied up, tortured, degraded, and sodomized against their will etc etc etc but that get's not so much as a byline from you? Now why is that? Want the laws? Look 'em up. Ignorance IS no excuse doncha know. I have looked them up. I've been ready to present my defense to a real judge (not judge Gemini) for many months now. The holdup in our case is that the prosecution side is realizing slowly that they don't have the case they thought they did, so now they are negotiating with us to drop some of it. They have egg on their faces, and they have wasted taxpayer's money to the tune of a few million now, for nothing, and they've disrupted and crapped all over a lot of good people too. But that's no sweat off your back, right Gem? For you guys that think alot of women run around with that fantasy... I feel for you. Feel all you want. A good % of paying members at such sites ARE WOMEN, and not just any women either. From what I've seen in my limited travels through a few of these sites, many of the members are lawyers, doctors, politicians, retired cops, government officials, and many people in managerial positions. Surprise surprise how many people indulge their little private fantasies online and in the movie rental shops. Sorry that you were born with twisted brains or that maybe your Dad bounced you once too often. Yes, resort back to the smartass to drive your point forward, that'll win em over. Good one Gem. I too am sorry, to see that such an intelligent woman as yourself is so utterly ignorant of what is right and wrong, so utterly blind to the fact that you are not only promoting censorship of free thought & expression but you are helping those that want to eventually wipe out our own part of the industry. (mainstream porn as it were). To me this makes no sense at all. For others... I'll be the redhead in the back of the court cheering when the verdict comes down as GUILTY. Yes, you've said this before luv. What will you be doing when the virdict is the opposite? I don't know about other cases, but we've all but won ours already, it's just a matter of getting through the process. Gem, you really should have been at some of the latest proceedings on this case. There is so much to this case that someone on the sidelines like you will never know Gem, and it's really sad that you have been so quick to condemn without all the facts. You of all people should know that in order to make an INFORMED decision about anything you need ALL the facts. Anything less is uncivilized, not to mention conjecture couched in ignorance. Now, an intelligent person would come back here and admit that on some levels maybe they were wrong, and start finding out exactly what the real facts are before jumping to judgements. The question is, are you really intelligent, or are you merely pretending? [This message has been edited by CDSmith (edited 09-30-2001).]