gather round, obama trolls! a lesson on taxes.

[12clicks]

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

if you're married and have a taxable income of $40k you pay $5,169.00 (roughly 13% of your income) for the luxury of living in the united states.

if you're married and have a taxable income of $1mil you pay $320,362.00 (roughly 32% of your income) for that exact same luxury.

just to recap, if the $1mil guy didn't pay 61 times the amount of tax that the $40k guy did, imagine how worse off your life would be.

How do you justify the crassness of wanting to deny them the tax cut that YOU yourself, who pay 61 times less in taxes than they do, enjoy?

[sologirlcontent]

other countries are worst so whatever..Im still voting for his ass in 2012

[mgtarheels]

Originally Posted by sologirlcontent

other countries are worst so whatever..Im still voting for his ass in 2012

Based on what reasoning?

[CDSmith]

I came to realize several years ago, well actually more than a decade ago, that most people have to actually be in that upper tax bracket before they can even begin to understand the unfairness that being in such a tax bracket brings, no matter how clearly illustrated ones facts are laid out.

In other words you can lead a herd of half-retarded horses to water but....

[_Richard_]

so, the bigger guy is paying a bigger share to make more money. that seems fair doesn't it?

[mgtarheels]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

so, the bigger guy is paying a bigger share to make more money. that seems fair doesn't it?

You think being taxed nearly 3x more is fair?

[baddog]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

so, the bigger guy is paying a bigger share to make more money. that seems fair doesn't it?

Why should he pay a larger percentage? If they both pay the same percentage the wealthier is still paying more taxes. How do you justify that?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

so, the bigger guy is paying a bigger share to make more money. that seems fair doesn't it?

5 x 25 = 125

[PR_Glen]

Overtaxing people who employ a lot of people is ridiculous.. the money they would make in taxes from the possible hundreds or even thousands of workers of these employers would probably make up the difference if not bring in more tax money in the end. Wouldn't it?

[Sly]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

Overtaxing people who employ a lot of people is ridiculous.. the money they would make in taxes from the possible hundreds or even thousands of workers of these employers would probably make up the difference if not bring in more tax money in the end. Wouldn't it?

That $1M is not company money. That's salary or wages.

[_Richard_]

i think the bottom line here is, if you don't like it, leave. Right?

if the 20% of the nation who controls 90% of it's wealth has some issues with the taxes in your country

maybe they should call a vote

[The Demon]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

i think the bottom line here is, if you don't like it, leave. Right?

if the 20% of the nation who controls 90% of it's wealth has some issues with the taxes in your country

maybe they should call a vote

They did. It's called tax cuts for the wealthy.

[TheSenator]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

if you're married and have a taxable income of $40k you pay $5,169.00 (roughly 13% of your income) for the luxury of living in the united states.

if you're married and have a taxable income of $1mil you pay $320,362.00 (roughly 32% of your income) for that exact same luxury.

just to recap, if the $1mil guy didn't pay 61 times the amount of tax that the $40k guy did, imagine how worse off your life would be.

How do you justify the crassness of wanting to deny them the tax cut that YOU yourself, who pay 61 times less in taxes than they do, enjoy?

We should just roll it back to the Reagan era tax rates.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by The Demon

They did. It's called tax cuts for the wealthy.

haha touche

[jimmy-3-way]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

Overtaxing people who employ a lot of people is ridiculous.. the money they would make in taxes from the possible hundreds or even thousands of workers of these employers would probably make up the difference if not bring in more tax money in the end. Wouldn't it?

That's an utter fallacy, but carry on.

[uno]

Originally Posted by jimmy-3-way

That's an utter fallacy, but carry on.

Look at all the myriad of jobs created by Bush's 2001 + 2003 tax cuts! Oh... Wait... That didn't happen. Not only did it NOT happen, but the gap between the rich and poor has widened substantially as the middle class disappears. If the middle class disappears further, we are in for some serious shit.

[mgtarheels]

Originally Posted by jimmy-3-way

That's an utter fallacy, but carry on.

Only for the last 8 years or so and I don't fault that because of policy, but rather the second worst economic times in our history.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by TheSenator

We should just roll it back to the Reagan era tax rates.

I think it should go back to what the government promised when the income tax was enacted. 1% and 7%.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by uno

Look at all the myriad of jobs created by Bush's 2001 + 2003 tax cuts! Oh... Wait... That didn't happen. Not only did it NOT happen, but the gap between the rich and poor has widened substantially as the middle class disappears. If the middle class disappears further, we are in for some serious shit.

The disappearing middle class, the poverty stricken who own their own homes, cars, multiple TVs, and iPhones......

Oh how the uneducated are lead with lies....

[GatorB]

fuck off 12dicks seriously. So what you are suggesting is that a millionaires should pay the EXACT same $ amount as a person making $40k? Maybe the millionaires should realize if he didn't have a bunch of guys making LESS than $40K risking their asses on the front lines he wouldn't be a millionaire.

[96ukssob]

tax brackets = stupid.

I'm paid on a W2 and I have to keep my salary $1 below the next tax bracket or I end up paying a lot more taxes... $10k more a year and I would be making less

[fatfoo]

Hello. I went to College in Canada. I passed a course on Canadian personal taxation. I also passed a course about Canadian corporate taxation. Message me on icq or email for talks if needed. The way Canadian laws are right now, both spouses are allowed to be of the same gender.

[mgtarheels]

Originally Posted by GatorB

fuck off 12dicks seriously. So what you are suggesting is that a millionaires should pay the EXACT same $ amount as a person making $40k? Maybe the millionaires should realize if he didn't have a bunch of guys making LESS than $40K risking their asses on the front lines he wouldn't be a millionaire.

No, you fucking imbecile.

In the example shown, A paid 13% of total income to taxes.

He's suggesting that is what the "rich" should be paying, as well. 13% of total income.

[cjhmdm]

Since when do rich people actually pay taxes anyway?

[Hank_Heartland]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

if you're married and have a taxable income of $40k you pay $5,169.00 (roughly 13% of your income) for the luxury of living in the united states.

if you're married and have a taxable income of $1mil you pay $320,362.00 (roughly 32% of your income) for that exact same luxury.

just to recap, if the $1mil guy didn't pay 61 times the amount of tax that the $40k guy did, imagine how worse off your life would be.

How do you justify the crassness of wanting to deny them the tax cut that YOU yourself, who pay 61 times less in taxes than they do, enjoy?

Name me one person on here talking this crap who make $1 mil who pays the tax table rate.....NOBODY!!!

[Relentless]

Look at the proposition:

Would you rather pay 5K to make 40K or 300K to make 1M?
Seems a fairly simple decision to make.

I do find it interesting that the 'hold the line on debt' group is going to extend unemployment for 13 months while
simultaneously cutting taxes and not cut and other expenses. I'd like to know how the plan to keep it all debt neutral lol.

[mgtarheels]

Originally Posted by Relentless

Look at the proposition:

Would you rather pay 5K to make 40K or 300K to make 1M?
Seems a fairly simple decision to make.

I do find it interesting that the 'hold the line on debt' group is going to extend unemployment for 13 months while
simultaneously cutting taxes and not cut and other expenses. I'd like to know how the plan to keep it all debt neutral lol.

Ah, yes.

Because the government ALLOWS us to make money, right? Surely, it's not our hard work or ingenuity.

It's simply a press of the button!

[will76]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040tt.pdf

if you're married and have a taxable income of $40k you pay $5,169.00 (roughly 13% of your income) for the luxury of living in the united states.

if you're married and have a taxable income of $1mil you pay $320,362.00 (roughly 32% of your income) for that exact same luxury.

just to recap, if the $1mil guy didn't pay 61 times the amount of tax that the $40k guy did, imagine how worse off your life would be.

How do you justify the crassness of wanting to deny them the tax cut that YOU yourself, who pay 61 times less in taxes than they do, enjoy?

It's not even a "tax cut". It's like a partial refund. They rip off the rich and then give a little back, and people bitch because they give them a little bit of THEIR own money back.

And it's not even so much that the person who makes a million pays 61 times more. Naturally the more you make the more you pay. However the tax rate should be the same for everyone. Everyone should pay 25% or whatever. Just because you make more and are successful, doesn't give them a right to bump you up to the 35% bracket. So then they give you a "break" and you only pay 32% and people still bitch the same people who are getting taxed at a 20% rate... the nerve. People are stupid. There is no justification for raping rich people just because they have more money.

[mgtarheels]

Originally Posted by will76

It's not even a "tax cut". It's like a partial refund. They rip off the rich and then give a little back, and people bitch because they give them a little bit of THEIR own money back.

And it's not even so much that the person who makes a million pays 61 times more. Naturally the more you make the more you pay. However the tax rate should be the same for everyone. Everyone should pay 25% or whatever. Just because you make more and are successful, doesn't give them a right to bump you up to the 35% bracket. So then they give you a "break" and you only pay 32% and people still bitch the same people who are getting taxed at a 20% rate... the nerve. People are stupid. There is no justification for raping rich people just because they have more money.

They're "credits", basically.

[will76]

Originally Posted by baddog

Why should he pay a larger percentage? If they both pay the same percentage the wealthier is still paying more taxes. How do you justify that?

Because Richard is a socialist.

[Relentless]

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

Ah, yes. Because the government ALLOWS us to make money, right? Surely, it's not our hard work or ingenuity.
It's simply a press of the button!

Taxes are a referral fee.
You want to sell something, you pay a commission to the entity that provides the infrastructure, security and customers for you.
If you think you can run a business without the help of the US market, military security, etc etc go ahead.

[mgtarheels]

Originally Posted by Relentless

Taxes are a referral fee.
You want to sell something, you pay a commission to the entity that provides the infrastructure, security and customers for you.
If you think you can run a business without the help of the US market, military security, etc etc go ahead.

That provides the infrastructure?

I provide the infrastructure.

Infrastructure is paid with taxes. I pay taxes. I pay for the military.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Relentless

Look at the proposition:

Would you rather pay 5K to make 40K or 300K to make 1M?
Seems a fairly simple decision to make.

I do find it interesting that the 'hold the line on debt' group is going to extend unemployment for 13 months while
simultaneously cutting taxes and not cut and other expenses. I'd like to know how the plan to keep it all debt neutral lol.

What is this bullshit with the "you rather pay to make" Pay to make has nothing to do with it. It isn't a license fee. Ok millionaires, you need to pay a 100K license fee. You don't pay to make. You make and then you get raped.

You people who think it is ok for someone to pay 35% of their income to taxes and someone else to pay 25% of their income to taxes are just straight up either fucking stupid, socialist, or broke and bitter.

There is no justification for higher tax brackets the more you make other than retarded, greedy people (YES GREEDY) who don't make a lot of money and who don't want to pay for any thing themselves. The vast majority of people only pay 25% or less, so they can vote anything in because its the majority of the people. The small percentage of people at the top may have a lot of money but they can not control the majority of votes. Which is why our tax code is the way it is, because people who make 50K a year are GREEDY. They don't want to pay their fair share. They are the fucks who use more of the public services, public schools, etc... but they want to rich person to pay a high % so the govt can take even MORE money from the rich guy so the greedy middle class person can keep most of what they make.

It's not fair anyway you cut it. I thought that way when I paid taxes on 10K a year and when I paid taxes on 300K a year. You can't justify it. It's straight up theft.

Not to mention the inheritance tax. Talk about a fucking joke that one is. A guy makes 15 million dollars, pays taxes on ALL Of it, and has 10 million dollars. He then dies and leaves it to his fucking kid, the govt can then tax that 10 million up to 60% depending on the situation. Money that has already been earned and paid taxes on gets taxed (cut in half) again just because the person died. That's the worst tax of all. Fuck by the time they done with you and you pay 30%+ in income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, and the 30+ other taxes, what you have left over when you die gets whacked in half. the govt keeps taking and taking, its bullshit.

And a bunch of punks get their panties in a wad because the "rich" people get to keep paying 35% instead of 37%.... when they only pay 20%... go fuck yourself.

Originally Posted by Hank_Heartland

Name me one person on here talking this crap who make $1 mil who pays the tax table rate.....NOBODY!!!

So what, it's still wrong to do even if we aren't making a million dollars. Its a fucked up way to run a govt. Punish the successful people and reward the unproductive.

[mgtarheels]

Originally Posted by will76

What is this bullshit with the "you rather pay to make" Pay to make has nothing to do with it. It isn't a license fee. Ok millionaires, you need to pay a 100K license fee. You don't pay to make. You make and then you get raped.

You people who think it is ok for someone to pay 35% of their income to taxes and someone else to pay 25% of their income to taxes are just straight up either fucking stupid, socialist, or broke and bitter.

There is no justification for higher tax brackets the more you make other than retarded, greedy people (YES GREEDY) who don't make a lot of money and who don't want to pay for any thing themselves. The vast majority of people only pay 25% or less, so they can vote anything in because its the majority of the people. The small percentage of people at the top may have a lot of money but they can not control the majority of votes. Which is why our tax code is the way it is, because people who make 50K a year are GREEDY. They don't want to pay their fair share. They are the fucks who use more of the public services, public schools, etc... but they want to rich person to pay a high % so the govt can take even MORE money from the rich guy so the greedy middle class person can keep most of what they make.

It's not fair anyway you cut it. I thought that way when I paid taxes on 10K a year and when I paid taxes on 300K a year. You can't justify it. It's straight up theft.

Seriously.

I can't understand how people forget that the people PAY the government.

They act as if we should be greatful for what we have when we're the ones paying for it, supplying it, building it, and defending it.

[BJ]

Consumption Tax FTW. No more IRS.

[woj]

Originally Posted by Relentless

Taxes are a referral fee.
You want to sell something, you pay a commission to the entity that provides the infrastructure, security and customers for you.
If you think you can run a business without the help of the US market, military security, etc etc go ahead.

Great analogy, but usually the more volume you do, the better rates you get? For example: cc processing, process $10k/year pay 15%, process 10M/year pay 5%...
a structure like that motivates people to push harder so they can get better rates, doesn't it?
but with the government, it's just the reverse? what gives?

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by mgtarheels

Ah, yes.

Because the government ALLOWS us to make money, right? Surely, it's not our hard work or ingenuity.

It's simply a press of the button!

The rabble always think we've succeeded because of the government.
The relentlesses of the world never imagine it's hard work and intelligence that sets their betters apart from them

[Slutboat]

12 Dicks you are in desperate need of one of these:

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Relentless

Taxes are a referral fee.
You want to sell something, you pay a commission to the entity that provides the infrastructure, security and customers for you.
If you think you can run a business without the help of the US market, military security, etc etc go ahead.

Oh please, I could get into the trash business tomorrow and succeed and you'd be the guy riding the back of the truck explaining how the government provided my way.

Trash like you never get it. It's why at 40 some years old, you still live with your mom and add text to videos

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Slutboat

12 Dicks you are in desperate need of one of these:

When is the slut boat's next cruise again?

[ShellyCrash]

Just out of curiousity, does anyone here know ANY millionaires that pay their taxes straight up?

I'm not looking to name names, but knowing several myself I can't think of a single one that doesn't employ some "creative" accounting come tax time.

Foreign bank accounts, tax shelters, family trusts, etc... in the end after all the manipulation proportionally they are probably not too far off.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Hank_Heartland

Name me one person on here talking this crap who make $1 mil who pays the tax table rate.....NOBODY!!!

Dear idiot,
Taxable income is taxable income.


Amazing what little you actually know

[ShellyCrash]

I heard this interview last year, and even though they are probably not the words I would use to express it, it is pretty much how I view this situation:

I was questioned last year, before Mr. Obama took the presidency, people was like, "Well he's going to raise the taxes and it means that you're going to have higher taxes, because you are above that $250,000 year quota," right? And I was like, "Well, you know what, if I have to pay a little more extra so that others can have a little more food, clothing and shelter, then let me pay." Because you know, what you want for yourself, you should want for your brother and your fellow man.

Now, we don't all need things that we yearn for. And I try to teach my children right now more than ever that yo, OK, there's some things you want and some things you need. Let's deal with what we need and not what we want more. And that alone will help you get through a recession. Because your eyes want it all. You know, the cake looks good, the coat looks good, the car looks nice. But do you need it? I'm willing to accept that.

full transcript here- http://marketplace.publicradio.org/d.../pm-tao-of-wu/

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

I heard this interview last year, and even though they are probably not the words I would use to express it, it is pretty much how I view this situation:




full transcript here- http://marketplace.publicradio.org/d.../pm-tao-of-wu/

The idiocy of this statement is in thinking that handing over hard earned money for the government to waste, somehow helps the poor.

[will76]

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

Just out of curiousity, does anyone here know ANY millionaires that pay their taxes straight up?

I'm not looking to name names, but knowing several myself I can't think of a single one that doesn't employ some "creative" accounting come tax time.

Foreign bank accounts, tax shelters, family trusts, etc... in the end after all the manipulation proportionally they are probably not too far off.

The smart ones use all of the legal means necessary to try to get screwed less hard. At the end of the day, unless they are committing tax evasion they are going to be hard pressed to cheat the govt out of less of a % then what the middle class is paying. Now, they can move money around and do things to not pay on it *this year* but when they take the money and use it, they paying taxes on it. Or if they die and it gets left to their heirs, the govt is taking taxes. You can legally avoid some but the "rich don't pay taxes is myth" by the uniformed common folk who would be happy to make the "rich" pay 85% of everything they make over 20 million dollars because after all who really needs that much money, its not fair, even if they give up 85% they still making millions.

money offshore is tax evasion plain and simple. If you live in the US, you better report what you make even if you send it offshore lol. If they catch you funneling money offshore and you are a US Citizen, you fucked if you not claiming it.

[will76]

Originally Posted by ShellyCrash

I heard this interview last year, and even though they are probably not the words I would use to express it, it is pretty much how I view this situation:


" And I was like, "Well, you know what, if I have to pay a little more extra so that others can have a little more food, clothing and shelter, then let me pay." Because you know, what you want for yourself, you should want for your brother and your fellow man. "

full transcript here- http://marketplace.publicradio.org/d.../pm-tao-of-wu/

Sorry hate to sound cold but I don't work my ass off so someone else who isn't working as hard as me can get more hand outs at my expense. I've likely donated more money than 90% of the people on this board to various charities over the years, but what you mention is charity and its a personal choice. The govt shouldn't rape the " better to do people" so the "not so well to do people" can have more things. That is a personal choice, if someone chooses to give great for them, it shouldn't be forced on SOME PEOPLE to do it. Or at the very least if it was force on people it should be forced on everyone equally. You expect the person making 250K to give up a couple thousands but you don't expect the person making 40K to give up $500 ??? why not ?

[howardzinn]

The OP is so devoid of intellect I don't expect him to have heard of concepts like utilitarianism and the social contract. There is a philosophical underpinning to wealth redistribution in society but you are such a fucking numbskull you only read books by Glenn Beck..

He would prefer regressive taxation and the MUCH larger lower class pay for the bulk of government services and the upper class coast along on their assets. Perhaps a return a plutocracy where the poor spend a huge percentage of their wealth on sales taxes and the rich ship their assets offshore?

The worst ignorant assumption that this jackass has is that the dude on 40k who may be working 2 or 3 jobs (because the minimum wage is such a joke in the USA), is coasting along and not working as hard for that money as the guy who inherited 100k to startup his business or Paris Hilton.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by will76

Because Richard is a socialist.

so if that makes me socialist, then you're calling the US socialist? i don't charge anyone a 30% tax, last time i checked

[k0nr4d]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

so, the bigger guy is paying a bigger share to make more money. that seems fair doesn't it?

It's very UNFAIR. He pays 61x the tax the $40k guy does, and gets the same stuff for it. Same roads, same hospitals, same police, same fire dept, same everything. It's a punishment for working better.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

It's very UNFAIR. He pays 61x the tax the $40k guy does, and gets the same stuff for it. Same roads, same hospitals, same police, same fire dept, same everything. It's a punishment for working better.

it would be unfair if the 40k guy didn't jump tax brackets if his income were to increase. Since it does, it's hard to call the current tax system 'unfair', when gap between rich and poor seems to be growing at an ever increasing rate

the funny thing about these taxes is they inevitably create more jobs, enabling more people to gain income and thus spend.

having ones cake and eating it too..