if Mexico's Public Health System works, why not in the US?

[czarina]

Mexico has a public health system which covers everybody who works, and their relatives (children, spouse, etc.). The worker pays a small fee every 2 weeks. A friend of mine who has it, makes about $2000 USD a month and pays $11 every 2 weeks, and him, his kids and wife are covered.
Single mothers, unemployed mothers and all children under 18 are covered as well.
It is not the best health care system on the planet, but it gets the job done, and if you don't have it, or don't want to use it, you can go to a private doctor.

So, why can Mexico (a 3rd world country with a tremendous corruption problem) have a public health system that works, and the Obama administration is having such a hard time setting something up?

[JustDaveXxx]

It all looks good on paper.


If their system is so good, why is it they keep coming here?

[czarina]

they're certainly not crossing the border because of the health care

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by czarina

they're certainly not crossing the border because of the health care

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

It all looks good on paper.


If their system is so good, why is it they keep coming here?

They go to the US for work. The min wage in Mexico is 5$ a day. And when they get to the US they work Then send the money home.

[baddog]

Let's start with the obvious.

1. Fewer people.
2. Fewer illegal aliens.

[Sly]

So what you're saying is medical care is cheap in a highly corrupt country with few rules that are enforced? No way. It can't be true. Shocking!

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by czarina

they're certainly not crossing the border because of the health care

You are greatly misinformed.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...taxpayers.html

Arizona alone pays $400 million a year for illegal immigrants health care, $1.8 billion dollars total cost to AZ tax payers. If the Mexican system is so great, they are more than welcome to go back.

[Ice-nine]

God damned Obama.

[Agent 488]

because some very powerful company's who have a huge influence in washington make more money keeping the system broken and want to keep it that way.

[Coup]

The United states government is in the business of killing people, not saving them.

Much more profitable to the powers that be that way.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

because some very powerful company's who have a huge influence in washington make more money keeping the system broken and want to keep it that way.

No doubt.

http://www.frontierdoctors.com/story.php?storyid=4

[Vendzilla]

recently we had more people getting a pass on the new health care law by obama, if it's so good, why are they opting out?

[96ukssob]

1) medical insurance to the provider (i.e. doctors, hospitals, etc) is no where close to what they have to pay here in the US
2) the US is sue happy
3) there is no money to be made in making everyone happy... there is more money in causing fear and pretending to have a solution

[brassmonkey]

no comment

[djroof]

same here shit in Greece...

[tiger]

So many of you guys are so close minded. The Mexican system is cheap and covers everyone. It's so cheap in fact if you make decent money you can pay for most stuff out of pocket with no insurance. But insurance is so cheap for 100% coverage that there is really no reason not to buy insurance. Open your mind for a second and actually take a look you might be surprised. Doctors there even routinely make house calls for follow up care. I have actually used their system and was pretty surprised myself at the quality of the care and the costs.

Also there have been a lot of articles lately talking about the large number of Americans that have been crossing the border to get medical care in Mexico, google them and read a few.

[RyuLion]

Hmmm, now I'm in the mood for tacos!

[minicivan]

Funny...

I was just thinking "if kidnapping people and holding them for ransom, smuggling drugs across the boarder, killing random people including children to send a message and shooting every police chief and judge that you can shoot works so well in Mexico, why not in the US"

I think we should all be modeling ourselves off of a terminally corrupt, 3rd world state ran by narco terrorists.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by tiger

So many of you guys are so close minded. The Mexican system is cheap and covers everyone. It's so cheap in fact if you make decent money you can pay for most stuff out of pocket with no insurance. But insurance is so cheap for 100% coverage that there is really no reason not to buy insurance. Open your mind for a second and actually take a look you might be surprised. Doctors there even routinely make house calls for follow up care. I have actually used their system and was pretty surprised myself at the quality of the care and the costs.

Also there have been a lot of articles lately talking about the large number of Americans that have been crossing the border to get medical care in Mexico, google them and read a few.

I just talk to my family that is trying to become American citizens. They dont view the same rosy views of the Mexican system.

[12clicks]

Wow, another thread where the less intellectually able raise their hand to be counted

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by tiger

So many of you guys are so close minded. The Mexican system is cheap and covers everyone. It's so cheap in fact if you make decent money you can pay for most stuff out of pocket with no insurance. But insurance is so cheap for 100% coverage that there is really no reason not to buy insurance. Open your mind for a second and actually take a look you might be surprised. Doctors there even routinely make house calls for follow up care. I have actually used their system and was pretty surprised myself at the quality of the care and the costs.

Also there have been a lot of articles lately talking about the large number of Americans that have been crossing the border to get medical care in Mexico, google them and read a few.

There's the reality. WE are OVERCHARGED for every bit of medical we get...including prescription drugs.

We went to Tijuana to get CM's boobs done. And the doctors and hospitals were literally set up 100 feet from the border. The doctor we used lives in San Diego and is U.S. trained and schooled. His prices in Tijuana are less than half of what is charged just over the border here in the U.S.

That town is overflowing with Americans having medical procedures. It's a huge "medical tourism" town because of the pricing. And you just walk downstairs to the pharmacy and fill your prescription for pennies on the dollar of what we get fucked over for here in the U.S.

People should not NEED insurance except for a catastrophic occurrence.

That is the way it used to be when I was young. People actually PAID to go to the doctor out of their pockets. Nobody back then had "health insurance" that I or anyone in my extended family knew of.

Now? You can't have so much as a kidney stone removed in the U.S. without taking out a bank loan.

THAT is the problem. Price gouging. Not insurance. We shouldn't need health insurance to simply go to the doctor.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Robbie

People should not NEED insurance except for a catastrophic occurrence.

My family only has catastrophic type insurance. You should see the looks and questions we get when we tell them we will be paying in cash for routine visits. It is like we stepped out of a fucking space ship.

[jonnydoe]

Originally Posted by czarina

they're certainly not crossing the border because of the health care

I would imagine if you ask anyone of means if they had a bad accident on the border where they would go it would be the US.

[PornMD]

Originally Posted by tiger

So many of you guys are so close minded. The Mexican system is cheap and covers everyone. It's so cheap in fact if you make decent money you can pay for most stuff out of pocket with no insurance. But insurance is so cheap for 100% coverage that there is really no reason not to buy insurance. Open your mind for a second and actually take a look you might be surprised. Doctors there even routinely make house calls for follow up care. I have actually used their system and was pretty surprised myself at the quality of the care and the costs.

Also there have been a lot of articles lately talking about the large number of Americans that have been crossing the border to get medical care in Mexico, google them and read a few.

Wow, no shit? Things are cheaper in Mexico? Newsflash - everything is cheaper in Mexico. Ask yourself why.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by jonnydoe

I would imagine if you ask anyone of means if they had a bad accident on the border where they would go it would be the US.

In Tijuana we met and spoke to LOTS of Americans "with means" who were there having surgeries done. They weren't there because they had a bad accident...but they were there by choice having face lifts, breast implants, eye lifts, etc.

The doctors there were U.S. trained and schooled...and ours was a U.S. citizen whose home was in San Diego.

The govt., the medical industry, and the insurance companies all held hands and have fucked us over BIG time on medical costs in the U.S.
And just like everything else...we're always told that we are "the best".

And we just may have some of the best research hospitals in the world. But on a day to day basis in every town in the U.S.? I have my doubts that we are as good as the outrageous prices we pay.

[CurrentlySober]

I like Mexico's Public Health System

[fatfoo]

Originally Posted by minicivan

Funny...

I was just thinking "if kidnapping people and holding them for ransom, smuggling drugs across the boarder, killing random people including children to send a message and shooting every police chief and judge that you can shoot works so well in Mexico, why not in the US"

I think we should all be modeling ourselves off of a terminally corrupt, 3rd world state ran by narco terrorists.

What you say sounds terrible. I suppose only a person with good aim can shoot a gun. A blind person can't shoot anyone, because he/she can't see shit.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by PornMD

Wow, no shit? Things are cheaper in Mexico? Newsflash - everything is cheaper in Mexico. Ask yourself why.

I googled a lot of this up a couple of years back. Not only Mexico. EVERY country in the world is drastically cheaper for medical procedures than the U.S.

Google up medical tourism in India. You'll see the prices and shit yourself. And those guys are in many ways ahead of us technologically and medically.

Also from what I've read...many, many stars in Hollywood and other assorted millionaire jet setting types all go down to South America for their plastic surgery (Brazil for instance) because it's 10 times cheaper and the plastic surgeons are more advanced.

For instance breast implants...doctors in Brazil are the masters of the "gummy bear" silicone implant that is still under "study" by the U.S., it's the safest one out there because it's a solid implant that can't rupture or leak. It was allowed in the U.S. for a year or two to "study". Meanwhile the surgeons in Brazil have been doing it for women around the world for almost two decades. That is just one example of how far behind we are. A superior procedure done by skilled surgeons at half the price that U.S. doctors do it using an outdated procedure.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Robbie

His prices in Tijuana are less than half of what is charged just over the border here in the U.S.

You mean, like his overhead?

That is the way it used to be when I was young. People actually PAID to go to the doctor out of their pockets. Nobody back then had "health insurance" that I or anyone in my extended family knew of.

Bullshit. Maybe no one in YOUR family knew what health insurance was, but I certainly knew and had full coverage by the time I was 18.

Now? You can't have so much as a kidney stone removed in the U.S. without taking out a bank loan.

If you are going to a doctor to have a kidney stone removed, you need a new doctor.

[jonnydoe]

Originally Posted by Robbie

In Tijuana we met and spoke to LOTS of Americans "with means" who were there having surgeries done. They weren't there because they had a bad accident...but they were there by choice having face lifts, breast implants, eye lifts, etc.

The doctors there were U.S. trained and schooled...and ours was a U.S. citizen whose home was in San Diego.

The govt., the medical industry, and the insurance companies all held hands and have fucked us over BIG time on medical costs in the U.S.
And just like everything else...we're always told that we are "the best".

And we just may have some of the best research hospitals in the world. But on a day to day basis in every town in the U.S.? I have my doubts that we are as good as the outrageous prices we pay.

You are exactly right here. Getting a set of boobs is far different from getting cancer or heart treatment.

I think Singapore is supposed to be into medical tourism as well.

Boobs aren't covered by insurance unless it's due to breast cancer generally so these things are not part of the insurance equation/problem.

Something else to consider is that the min. daily pay in Mexico is something like $5.50USD...so it would take one day a week to pay the insurance premium there.

I agree our system is a wreck. There is no easy answer and the new US Plan is just more crap added in to a very flawed system. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig.

[jonnydoe]

Originally Posted by baddog

Bullshit. Maybe no one in YOUR family knew what health insurance was, but I certainly knew and had full coverage by the time I was 18.

Middle 70s was when group insurance was really emerging. Before that there was coverage but it wasn't very widespread or comprehensive.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by jonnydoe

Middle 70s was when group insurance was really emerging. Before that there was coverage but it wasn't very widespread or comprehensive.

huh? I know for fact my dad always had group insurance for us when we were growing up, and I was out of the house for at least 5 years by the mid-70's.

He did not have a great paying job, but he was a union member and that was a primary benefit of every union my extended family was a member of.

[jonnydoe]

Originally Posted by baddog

huh? I know for fact my dad always had group insurance for us when we were growing up, and I was out of the house for at least 5 years by the mid-70's.

He did not have a great paying job, but he was a union member and that was a primary benefit of every union my extended family was a member of.

Unions are how many of the group insurance plans for other workers started so you were fortunate. Blue Cross didn't merge with Blue Shield until the early 80s. Before you had two policies...I think Cross was for doctors and shield was for hospitals. Before this time our health care was so cheap not many people carried anything except for an indemnity policy that would pay cash benefits in case of scheduled accidents/illnesses.

[jonnydoe]

Originally Posted by Robbie

masters of the "gummy bear" silicone implant

Damn I didn't know they had those...that will be nice.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by baddog

You mean, like his overhead?

Bullshit. Maybe no one in YOUR family knew what health insurance was, but I certainly knew and had full coverage by the time I was 18.

If you are going to a doctor to have a kidney stone removed, you need a new doctor.

Lloyd I have no idea what you're talking about. His "overhead" is definitely not as much. That is the point isn't it?

And I don't know where YOU grew up. But I grew up near Tampa Fla. Born in 1961. I lived in a small town called Bowling Green, Fla. My dad's best friend Jimmy was the ONLY insurance man within 60 miles all around us. NOBODY in my family , nor anybody that we knew had "health insurance" or "car insurance" for that matter. lol It wasn't a "law" yet. Jimmy was pretty much not very busy.

Maybe you guys did in California. But we sure didn't.

And YES, 4 years ago CM had a kidney stone. It was diagnosed by her DOCTOR. That doctor performed the surgery to remove that kidney stone which was done via sound waves. It cost almost 8 thousand fucking dollars.

2 years ago CM had an emergency appendectomy right here in Vegas immediately following the Internext show. Again...her personal DOCTOR performed the surgery. That one was closer to 15 grand.

Do you have kidney stone surgery performed by people who aren't doctors: "If you are going to a doctor to have a kidney stone removed, you need a new doctor."

I'm not really sure what the fuck that means? lol

But I DO know what I saw with my own two eyes in Tijuana. And the people I spoke to. And the things I read online when I googled up various surgeries. Saw a special on CNN about "medical tourism" as well that basically said exactly what I'm saying.

But if you don't believe me that's okay. Nothing said on this forum much surprises me anymore.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by baddog

huh? I know for fact my dad always had group insurance for us when we were growing up, and I was out of the house for at least 5 years by the mid-70's.

He did not have a great paying job, but he was a union member and that was a primary benefit of every union my extended family was a member of.

THAT explains it.

Where I grew up there were NO unions. Still aren't to this very day. So no, none of us ever had health insurance when I was growing up. We paid the doctor in cash. It didn't cost an arm and a leg back then.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by jonnydoe

You are exactly right here. Getting a set of boobs is far different from getting cancer or heart treatment.

From what I read on medical tourism off of Google is that India is the master of heart surgeries. It's cheaper to fly there, stay in a 5 star hotel and have bypass surgery than it is to do it at the closest hospital to your home...let me google that:

Here's one of a man from the UK:
Heart bypass surgery in India
Cardiac bypass - George Marshall
It was one of the most critical decisions George Marshall had to take in his life. The 73-year-old violin repairer from Bradford, UK, was suffering from severe angina (chest pain) and was told by his local doctor that he had the choice of waiting for six months for a heart bypass operation through the National Health Service (NHS) or pay £19,000 for the same operation at a private hospital in Britain.

He then took the bold decision to fly 5,000 miles to Bangalore?s renowned Wockhardt Hospitals for his surgery where surgeons took a piece of vein from his arm to repair the thinning arteries of his heart.

A hale and hearty Marshall was discharged from Wockhardt Hospitals after a successful double bypass surgery performed by Dr Vivek Jawali, the Hospital?s Chief Cardiovascular Surgeon.

Marshall told the UK newspaper, the Guardian. ?I would have no problem coming again.? It cost him only £4,800, and that included the cost of his flight from UK to India and back.

Just read on one site that Coronary Artery Bypass surgery in India is $6900 In the U.S. it's $100,000 !!!! http://ezinearticles.com/?Low-Cost-C...ia?&id=1240118

[sandman!]

sure if the usa deported and jailed illegal's like mexico does we could do it here also.

alot of things there are not covered tho sick people from Mexico come here for the free health care all the time.

[baddog]

Originally Posted by jonnydoe

Unions are how many of the group insurance plans for other workers started so you were fortunate. Blue Cross didn't merge with Blue Shield until the early 80s. Before you had two policies...I think Cross was for doctors and shield was for hospitals. Before this time our health care was so cheap not many people carried anything except for an indemnity policy that would pay cash benefits in case of scheduled accidents/illnesses.

I never dealt with Blue Shield until 2009. People had health insurance long before HMO's and PPO's came about.

Originally Posted by Robbie

Lloyd I have no idea what you're talking about. His "overhead" is definitely not as much.

You don't think overhead could have something to do with pricing?

And YES, 4 years ago CM had a kidney stone. It was diagnosed by her DOCTOR. That doctor performed the surgery to remove that kidney stone which was done via sound waves. It cost almost 8 thousand fucking dollars.

That must have been an exception to the case. I know several people that have had kidney stones, including an ex-wife, and every one of them pissed them out.

[PornMD]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I googled a lot of this up a couple of years back. Not only Mexico. EVERY country in the world is drastically cheaper for medical procedures than the U.S.

Google up medical tourism in India. You'll see the prices and shit yourself. And those guys are in many ways ahead of us technologically and medically.

Also from what I've read...many, many stars in Hollywood and other assorted millionaire jet setting types all go down to South America for their plastic surgery (Brazil for instance) because it's 10 times cheaper and the plastic surgeons are more advanced.

For instance breast implants...doctors in Brazil are the masters of the "gummy bear" silicone implant that is still under "study" by the U.S., it's the safest one out there because it's a solid implant that can't rupture or leak. It was allowed in the U.S. for a year or two to "study". Meanwhile the surgeons in Brazil have been doing it for women around the world for almost two decades. That is just one example of how far behind we are. A superior procedure done by skilled surgeons at half the price that U.S. doctors do it using an outdated procedure.

Well that's the other half of it - given malpractice lawsuits are rampant here, docs/hospitals charge an arm and a leg for stuff. So yea, things will be more expensive here than in most places. The first half of it though is that everything is cheaper in Mexico, not just health care, and there are a number of reasons for it.

Bottom line - with the economy being the way it is, you'd see a lot more people from the US going to live in Mexico if it was so great. I mean a lot of people in the US could live like kings there, right? But no - it's a fucking shithole which to people in the US is there to take advantage of for cheap prescription drugs/healthcare/labor/etc. On the other hand, where I live it is expensive to live, which in turn makes just about everything here more expensive. Reason? Because it's a very desirable place to live (speaking of San Diego of course, not all of US).

There's still ways to save money or reduce costs of things and whatnot, and I'm sure health care is one of them, but to assume we could pay about $22/mo for our health care if there was a public option would be absolutely ridiculous.

[nottslad]

Originally Posted by jonnydoe

Something else to consider is that the min. daily pay in Mexico is something like $5.50USD...so it would take one day a week to pay the insurance premium there.

Factually that is correct. In reality, we pay our cleaner 250 pesos ($20 USD) for 5 hours work and the guy that cleans our car 80 pesos ($6.40) for around an hour. Thaat is the going rate - not a great wage by any means but these are people at the lower end of the wage table and they make far in excess of 5 dollars a day. I would guess there's very few Mexicans who make the minimum wage, least I have never met one.

Originally Posted by sandman!

sure if the usa deported and jailed illegal's like mexico does we could do it here also.

A significant percentage of American expats are living in Mexico illegally, and have done for years with no problems. Did you know there are actually American beggars/hustlers on the streets in downtown Cancun?

[Overload]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

It all looks good on paper.


If their system is so good, why is it they keep coming here?

ummmmmmm ... some of your 9/11 heroes went to cuba for medical treatment ... no more words

[baddog]

Originally Posted by Overload

ummmmmmm ... some of your 9/11 heroes went to cuba for medical treatment ... no more words

How did they get there?

[nottslad]

Originally Posted by PornMD

Bottom line - with the economy being the way it is, you'd see a lot more people from the US going to live in Mexico if it was so great. I mean a lot of people in the US could live like kings there, right? But no - it's a fucking shithole which to people in the US is there to take advantage of for cheap prescription drugs/healthcare/labor/etc. On the other hand, where I live it is expensive to live, which in turn makes just about everything here more expensive. Reason? Because it's a very desirable place to live (speaking of San Diego of course, not all of US).

Parts of Mexico are more expensive than parts of the States to live, and those are the parts Americans tend to move to. There are a huge amount of American expats in many Mexican cities and numbers are growing all the time.

Sure there are shithole places to live in Mexico but there are plenty of shithole places to live in the US too, I'm sure.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by tiger

So many of you guys are so close minded. The Mexican system is cheap and covers everyone. It's so cheap in fact if you make decent money you can pay for most stuff out of pocket with no insurance. But insurance is so cheap for 100% coverage that there is really no reason not to buy insurance. Open your mind for a second and actually take a look you might be surprised. Doctors there even routinely make house calls for follow up care. I have actually used their system and was pretty surprised myself at the quality of the care and the costs.

Also there have been a lot of articles lately talking about the large number of Americans that have been crossing the border to get medical care in Mexico, google them and read a few.

come on now. the US needs to keep charging such insanely high prices for meds and medical procedures because without it, no advancements would be made (and we've got to keep stockholders happy too).

[jonnydoe]

Originally Posted by Robbie

From what I read on medical tourism off of Google is that India is the master of heart surgeries. It's cheaper to fly there, stay in a 5 star hotel and have bypass surgery than it is to do it at the closest hospital to your home...let me google that:

Here's one of a man from the UK:
Heart bypass surgery in India
Cardiac bypass - George Marshall
It was one of the most critical decisions George Marshall had to take in his life. The 73-year-old violin repairer from Bradford, UK, was suffering from severe angina (chest pain) and was told by his local doctor that he had the choice of waiting for six months for a heart bypass operation through the National Health Service (NHS) or pay £19,000 for the same operation at a private hospital in Britain.

He then took the bold decision to fly 5,000 miles to Bangalore?s renowned Wockhardt Hospitals for his surgery where surgeons took a piece of vein from his arm to repair the thinning arteries of his heart.

A hale and hearty Marshall was discharged from Wockhardt Hospitals after a successful double bypass surgery performed by Dr Vivek Jawali, the Hospital?s Chief Cardiovascular Surgeon.

Marshall told the UK newspaper, the Guardian. ?I would have no problem coming again.? It cost him only £4,800, and that included the cost of his flight from UK to India and back.

Just read on one site that Coronary Artery Bypass surgery in India is $6900 In the U.S. it's $100,000 !!!! http://ezinearticles.com/?Low-Cost-C...ia?&id=1240118

Most of the time you don't have the luxury to shop for a better price with a cardiac problem. That is part of the problem with our system. If the patient has insurance then he could give a shit less how much it costs. Imagine if you had a grocery copay card...you would get the filet mignon instead of the peanut butter. I know when I have had someone in a critical situation the only thing I cared about was what could we do for them. That British example is the reason a government controlled national health care plan is not what we need. Hell we already have two...Medicare and Medicaid which are complete disasters.

The US educates and innovates for the world in health care and it is damned expensive. The research money comes from stockholders that expect a return on their investment (although they are often obscene). People in the US don't want to get on a waiting list. The more illegals we cover gets cost shifted over to those that do pay. The government is notorious for adding layers of expensive administrative costs. Politicians that create and vote on legislation are generally clueless on health care and have a paid lobbyist in their ear. You can just go on and on and on.

One thing that is always blown out of proportion though is that the US does not provide health care for it's people (even illegals). You can always go to an ER, there are free clinics, there are tons of programs even beyond Medicaid. As usual the middle class takes the biggest brunt not getting freebies and having a hard time affording a premium as big as their mortgage. People have a tendency to think that universal health care is somehow going to be free or cheap. It's not gonna happen in this country in the near future.

Maybe as the global economy grows and other countries start investing more and earning more things will balance out over time.