charging affiliates to join your prog

[DVTimes]

I found a mainstream system that askes you to pay £5 to join. You get that back on your first payment.

Its to cut out as much as possible crooks.

Could this be a good idea for porn too?

I am sure it would cut out a lot of 'crooked sales' and so should result in fewer charge backs for sites.

Plus only those who get sales will join. Saves you haveing 200 people sign up who will not send you a single sale yet moan about what you provide them.

[Agent 488]

post the link.

[DEA - banned for life]

sounds like you might get "mallick'd" with that company ;)

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

post the link.

affiliatewindow.com.

[u-Bob]

sounds fishy.

[spazlabz]

I'm not sure. I can see the point of it but kind of flies in the face of conventional wisdom... "Please please please send me your traffic.... oh and a 5 pound note while you're at it Gov'ner"

[Agent 488]

supposedly a top notch uk network? shouldn't give anyone here ideas though ...

[redwhiteandblue]

Went for a job interview with them a while back, seemed like a cool company.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

I'm not sure. I can see the point of it but kind of flies in the face of conventional wisdom... "Please please please send me your traffic.... oh and a 5 pound note while you're at it Gov'ner"

Does it sound so bad?

Put it this way if you sell a franchise, the person has to pay you xxx amount fot it. For this they get tools to sell.

So what harm is asking for £5? You get it back in your first payment.

If it stops the crooks, and sives out the wast of space, is that not a good thing?

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Does it sound so bad?

Put it this way if you sell a franchise, the person has to pay you xxx amount fot it. For this they get tools to sell.

So what harm is asking for £5? You get it back in your first payment.

If it stops the crooks, and sives out the wast of space, is that not a good thing?

no harm at all, just goes against the grain. Logically it makes perfect sense... but in a cut throat 'marketing to affiliates' environment like we have here in our industry I have to question the effectiveness of it is all

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

no harm at all, just goes against the grain. Logically it makes perfect sense... but in a cut throat 'marketing to affiliates' environment like we have here in our industry I have to question the effectiveness of it is all

That said, if your a big name, people will WANT to promote you beliving you will sell.

At the end of the day your not keeping the cash. Your giving them in back.

Put it this way too, if it stops or reduses crooked sales, is it not a good idea.

[TheDA]

Welcome to mainstream

The £5 is worth it. They have quite a big merchant base.

[Atticus]

With the daily threads on here begging Leo and MFC to accept them as affiliates I could see them charging a lot more than $5 to join.

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

That said, if your a big name, people will WANT to promote you beliving you will sell.

At the end of the day your not keeping the cash. Your giving them in back.

Put it this way too, if it stops or reduses crooked sales, is it not a good idea.

I think I might not be communicating what I think about it clearly. I think it is a good idea, I just don't know how well it will work out with our industry. I have affiliates I have known for years, remember when they first started out and now, while they are not whales, they certainly know how to make a sale. Those same affiliates might have seen that and known there are 100 other programs out there that do not ask for... lets call it a security deposit... that will sign them up right now. I wouldn't want to lose a potential affiliate for that fee

I hope that makes sense

[Barefootsies]

It is an awesome idea.

1. Eliminates minors.
2. Helps eliminate fraud.
3. AP gets details via your payment method.

I think all online companies should do this.

[CPA37710T]

i think this could work well with a reputable program that is known.. a new affiliate program will have a hard time building a good reputation if they ask for money in advance

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I found a mainstream system that askes you to pay £5 to join. You get that back on your first payment.

Its to cut out as much as possible crooks.

Could this be a good idea for porn too?

I am sure it would cut out a lot of 'crooked sales' and so should result in fewer charge backs for sites.

Plus only those who get sales will join. Saves you haveing 200 people sign up who will not send you a single sale yet moan about what you provide them.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

I think I might not be communicating what I think about it clearly. I think it is a good idea, I just don't know how well it will work out with our industry. I have affiliates I have known for years, remember when they first started out and now, while they are not whales, they certainly know how to make a sale. Those same affiliates might have seen that and known there are 100 other programs out there that do not ask for... lets call it a security deposit... that will sign them up right now. I wouldn't want to lose a potential affiliate for that fee

I hope that makes sense

I understand what your saying.

But you could see it in reverse, you could be seen more exclusive to join.

The question is, how many people would be realy put off from joining your affiliate prog? I bet not many.

And I bet you would get MORE sales too.

Why?

Well becase I bet many sign up and never promote the site. But if they do pay, I bet they are more likly to promote your site.

[DVTimes]

You could even put forward the idea that perhaps some sites should even charge $30 per month to be a member of the affiliate site. After all your getting free fhg, flash films, banners and so on. So why not pay to have these.

If I ran a mobile phone shop and had franchises I would expect those franchises to pay a fee.

Or think this way, that $30 fee will pay for more product and promo bits.

When you think about it, the affiliate of porn has been getting it all there own way.

They get 50% but yet invest nothing in the business they promote, and moan if payment is 45 seconds late.

[signupdamnit]

I hate to say it but I'm not sure I'd trust many of the programs around with my credit card number.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I hate to say it but I'm not sure I'd trust many of the programs around with my credit card number.

Same as they should probably not trust most affiliates with unlimited access to their content (i.e. theft), merchant account (i.e. fraud), best wishes of their company (i.e. reputation), etc...

[spazlabz]

this is definitely a topic that makes you think... good thread

[maxjohan]

I agree that's a good idea. Just paypal me the money and get started...now we're talking...

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I hate to say it but I'm not sure I'd trust many of the programs around with my credit card number.

would you trust such as ccbill?

I am sure you would.

And if it custs out the crooks then I am sure it benefits us all.

[DVTimes]

To be honest I am suprised credit card firms who take adult payments have not insited on it for security.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Same as they should probably not trust most affiliates with unlimited access to their content (i.e. theft), merchant account (i.e. fraud), best wishes of their company (i.e. reputation), etc...

Theft?!? Is this a joke? Most have their entire member area on the tubes and forums and you're worried about affiliate promo content which probably has your url on it anyway?

It makes some sense to weed out people who have no verified presence in the industry signing up from high fraud areas. I will give you that. But it's ridiculous to worry about your affiliate promo content in 2011 unless you are also diligent about keeping the full scene stuff off the usual pirate spots. That attitude reminds me greatly of the Apple Twins program owner.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

would you trust such as ccbill?

I am sure you would.

And if it custs out the crooks then I am sure it benefits us all.

I would trust ccbill. I see potential in the idea but I think it's ripe for abuse and perhaps a little misguided. In a way it reminds me of an MLM as soon as you start talking of having to pay to join. There's the whole issue of this being adult 2011 and not Adult 1998 as well.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I would trust ccbill. I see potential in the idea but I think it's ripe for abuse and perhaps a little misguided. In a way it reminds me of an MLM as soon as you start talking of having to pay to join. There's the whole issue of this being adult 2011 and not Adult 1998 as well.

I think joining to sell could be good.

If it works for mainstream, why not adult?

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I think joining to sell could be good.

If it works for mainstream, why not adult?

I know I usually associate someone wanting me to submit credit card information in order to be an affiliate with a probable scam.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I know I usually associate someone wanting me to submit credit card information in order to be an affiliate with a probable scam.

I understand, but I am sure that scammers would be found out quick and posted on such as this forum.

[JustDaveXxx]

Sounds like a good idea. But this is GFY, people will come up with some Illogical, senseless reason on why it is a bad idea.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by JustDaveXxx

But this is GFY, people will come up with some Illogical, senseless reason on why it is a bad idea.

http://www.signbucksdaily.com/marketing/blacklist/
http://www.signbucksdaily.com/adult-...rtant-changes/

[Agent 488]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

I think joining to sell could be good.

If it works for mainstream, why not adult?

because the affiliate/program relationship is completely different in mainstream.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

because the affiliate/program relationship is completely different in mainstream.

is it?

can you say what the difference is please.

[jml23]

it's def a clever way to weed out the tire kickers...something to def keep an eye out and see the response it gets

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Theft?!? Is this a joke? Most have their entire member area on the tubes and forums

How did you think all of that content had gotten out there in the first place exactly chief?

It's long been known by forum owners to sign up to an affiliate program, get access to all of the sites and content, rape it and then post on forums. This is nothing new, and been going on for years.

They do not even need to pay the $24.95 and rape a site when they can get it as an affiliate who signs up, gets access to your entire site(s) and then rips it all for their own personal use. Ask any number of program owners how many affiliates they have, and whom have never sent them a single click.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

How did you think all of that content had gotten out there in the first place exactly chief?

It's long been known by forum owners to sign up to an affiliate program, get access to all of the sites and content, rape it and then post on forums. This is nothing new, and been going on for years.

They do not even need to pay the $24.95 and rape a site when they can get it as an affiliate who signs up, gets access to your entire site(s) and then rips it all for their own personal use. Ask any number of program owners how many affiliates they have, and whom have never sent them a single click.

Don't give out member's area passes so easily then. Make them make a few real sales first. It's a different issue than the common promo material most programs make available to affiliates. PornBB isn't interested in your 2 minute clips with your watermark. They want your full scenes. In fact if you started posting those 2 minute affiliate promo clips they'd likely ban you.

Adult Affiliates aren't going to pay you in order to promote your paysite in 2011. Let's be real here, okay?

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Don't give out member's area passes so easily then.

Agreed. They didn't used to. But greed took over.

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Adult Affiliates aren't going to pay you in order to promote your paysite in 2011. Let's be real here, okay?

That is why, starting about 24-36 months ago, most affiliate programs developed their own tube, and traffic networks and cut out the affiliate all together. It was talked about at any number of conferences publicly.

They solved the issue. Eliminate the affiliate and their demands.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

That is why, starting about 24-36 months ago, most affiliate programs developed their own tube, and traffic networks and cut out the affiliate all together. It was talked about at any number of conferences publicly.

They solved the issue. Eliminate the affiliate and their demands.

Even if they did roll out the red carpet and offer affiliates free daily blowjobs for joins you can't get what isn't there. 70% have already left. The ones left who can send legit joins aren't going to bend over backwards for you in order to promote your pay site. Look around and be real. There are other choices.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

The ones left who can send legit joins aren't going to bend over backwards for you in order to promote your pay site.

Oh, you mean like the affiliates who wanted affiliate programs to pay $75-125 per join? Those who wanted to be paid in advance, or have all of these creatives done for them an their one join a month, free hosting, free this and all of the other things of the past that helped burn this industry to the ground???

As I said sport, affiliate programs solved this. They brought their traffic and networks in-house. They made their own tubes, developed their own relationships, and now no longer need to pay those ransoms. The same thing is going on now over in mainstream with their affiliate networks.

You have to face the facts champ. Programs are tired of "bending over backwards" for the affiliate.

[NetHorse]

Charging to join sounds like a bit much, but some mainstream networks require you to provide verifiable income.

For example, hydragroup.com requires you can provide verifiable income of at least $10,000 per month from a reputable program to join.

[signupdamnit]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Oh, you mean like the affiliates who wanted affiliate programs to pay $75-125 per join? Those who wanted to be paid in advance, or have all of these creatives done for them an their one join a month, free hosting, free this and all of the other things of the past that helped burn this industry to the ground???

As I said sport, affiliate programs solved this. They brought their traffic and networks in-house. They made their own tubes, developed their own relationships, and now no longer need to pay those ransoms. The same thing is going on now over in mainstream with their affiliate networks.

You have to face the facts champ. Programs are tired of "bending over backwards" for the affiliate.

So do you think these small programs are going to become rich by telling all their affiliates to fuck off? There's a reason why the affiliate model has been so widespread. It's very lucrative to claim to pay 50/50 but actually pay the affiliate 25% of what they are actually sending you as far as revenue. There's a lot of money in having 1,000 poor saps send you 10,000 clicks a month and make $0 for it while you take all the joins which weren't tracked at best and at worst get free branding. That's just another one of the dirty little secrets.

It's easier for Manwin or RK to tell their affiliates to fuck off after they have already established their tubes as massive traffic pumps. But it'll be tougher for a smaller player unless their affiliate program never did anything anyway. And even if they could why would they if it's still profitable? It may not be as profitable since 70% of affiliates have left and conversions are getting worse but it's still easy money until you get to the point where it's no longer worth the hassle to keep the program open.

I guess we're getting there though. Maybe you're right. When there aren't any affiliates left there's no point in having an affiliate program. I agree. That's coming.

[LeRoy]

Originally Posted by Atticus

With the daily threads on here begging Leo and MFC to accept them as affiliates I could see them charging a lot more than $5 to join.

Good point

If the opp is good I dont see why not... if the source is credible and the program owners are knowledgeable in their niche.

but I wouldn't join/pay something to someone I dont know.

[MediaGuy]

Sounds fucking crazy.

Just sayin...

:d

[V_RocKs]

There are plenty adult programs I'd "join" for $10.

There are way more I'd prefer give me $10 to join.

[blackmonsters]

Based on the number of sponsors that I have tried and never made a sale; I
can't imagine that I'd ever join a sponsor that asked me to pay even 1 cent.


If affiliates start paying to join sponsors then the sponsor pool would grow with
absolute shit sponsors. WHY????

Because anybody can through together a pay site and launch it and charge
affiliates to sign up and then closed down because they made all the money
they needed from this crappy site from the affiliates. Then next week, launch
another pay site with a new tour and same content.

I have always considered any money making opportunity that was advertised and
also required a payment to be a loser/fraud/scam.

Bottom line : If I'm going to make so much money with a program then why does
that program need me to pay any money when they are already going to make
money from my sales. They only need me to pay if they don't think I will make them
money. Period.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

Based on the number of sponsors that I have tried and never made a sale; I
can't imagine that I'd ever join a sponsor that asked me to pay even 1 cent.


If affiliates start paying to join sponsors then the sponsor pool would grow with
absolute shit sponsors. WHY????

Because anybody can through together a pay site and launch it and charge
affiliates to sign up and then closed down because they made all the money
they needed from this crappy site from the affiliates. Then next week, launch
another pay site with a new tour and same content.

I have always considered any money making opportunity that was advertised and
also required a payment to be a loser/fraud/scam.

Bottom line : If I'm going to make so much money with a program then why does
that program need me to pay any money when they are already going to make
money from my sales. They only need me to pay if they don't think I will make them
money. Period.

again think of franchises.

I belive mcdonalds does or did insist that you had 1 million cash spare.

this way the chain had quality franchisers in theory.

in theory this would cut out a lot of rubish, making your product (pay site) apear on quality sites, rather than some rubish sites.

It should make you more sales too as the sites that have paid to join, shouild in time be copnsidered of quality, and as such trusted more, so they should inm turn get more hits but also a better join ratio, leaving the crud sites to crud surfers.

A bit like when you get a gas fitter in, he or she should be members of the right body.

[DVTimes]

Originally Posted by MediaGuy

Sounds fucking crazy.

Just sayin...

:d

While it sounds crazy, is it?

Think this way, many sites use the money they make from sales to pay for the affiliate area.

That means less cash to spend on content.

If you charge affiliates then that money can be spent on promo bits.

That way the product/paysite is even better.

As such it should for the affiliate sell even better, plus it should re-bill better.

At the moment affiliates are take take take.

Many sites seem to fail, simply on the basis they end up running out of cash to pay affiliates.

Its a bit like a record that was sold in the UK in the 80's. The company sold it, on the basis that it made a loss due to the FourSquare Internet Solutions
ensive cover. More it sold, the bigger loss the firm made. In the end it cost the record company thousands.

Or think this way, if you wanted to sell such as BMW cars, think how much you would have to pay to sell them. Do you think bmw would let some scruffy shop sell them? And would you want BMW to spend all its cash in giving you promo tools or invest in market reaserch and its cars?

[marlboroack]

Fucking stupid, google affiliate marketing.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

I guess we're getting there though. Maybe you're right. When there aren't any affiliates left there's no point in having an affiliate program. I agree. That's coming.

[signupdamnit]

DVTimes, you seem very sure that it's a good idea so maybe you should try it with your program and let us know how it turns out?