Beyond Political Alliance... This time to far.

[split_joel]

If the budget does not pass by tonight, the federal government whom already is overstepping every other boundary has gone to far.

Republicans and Democrats, Conservatives and Liberals. This is no longer about political alliance or whom to blame for a budget not being passed.

There is a lot of people who are about to go without pay. The people included in that are the Military, which my brother is currently serving, has done one tour in Afghanistan and is currently stationed in Germany.

Everyone has always question the level of corruption based on how our government works, but am I the only one really pissed off that our politicians still get to receive there pay checks while our friends and family are giving there lives for wars these elected paid rich politicians put them in?

Is anyone angry that not only does the military stop getting paid but every other low level federal employee also will no longer receive a paycheck.

I am done. I may be one voice but I will stand up, I will put a website up, I will protest on the streets.

I will make it damn clear that no mother fucker who is getting rich off our taxes and wars and inside money will EVER get any vote as long as they accept there paycheck until a budget is passed.

It is time this country stopped being scared and stands up because this is what is going to kill our rights. You give the government this level of power, and there will be no turning back.

Also do not give me they will receive back pay. Do you have any idea how little military makes as it is. My brother has a wife to support.

[pornguy]

They dont give a shit about me or you or what we have to say or vote.

[spazlabz]

well at least congressmen and women still get their pay... what a relief

you are right, do what you feel you must to protest in any way that you feel will be effective. Make a stand and be involved, it is not only your right but your duty as an American citizen to stand in defiance when you feel the Government you pay for is in the wrong. I salute you

[MetaMan]

No i dont feel mad. I am quite happy. This will teach pension eating government employees what it is like in the real world for once.

I am tired of all these public sector douche bags leeching off the private sector. I hope it goes on.

[Failed]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

No i dont feel mad. I am quite happy. This will teach pension eating government employees what it is like in the real world for once.

I am tired of all these public sector douche bags leeching off the private sector. I hope it goes on.

Yeah, god damn those troops who won't be getting their paychecks, and those fucking public parks that won't open, and those scumbags who issue passports! God damn lucky our congressmen and president still get their paychecks or I would be really angry!

[IllTestYourGirls]

Is your brother upholding his oath to uphold and defend the constitution? If so how did this happen?

the federal government whom already is overstepping every other boundary has gone to far.

Either that or they have not overstepped any boundaries?

[pornrecon]

Originally Posted by pornguy

They dont give a shit about me or you or what we have to say or vote.

Unfortunately this is the reality, and it seems naive to think any solution will be found from within the system (voting, etc). Politics prevent any true change but in the end its the people's fault, really. It's not like there isn't hard information about how truly fucked up the entire system is, and how corrupt it has become: books, documentaries, and now the internet make it easier than ever to educate yourself. But to do that, you'd have to actually be curious about something other than what's on prime time tonight.

Tangent BS 'movements' like "Yes We Can" and the Tea Baggers distract that crucial middle that ride the fence between political apathy and taking action. They don't end up contributing to any real change but tire themselves out with the nonsense, bigotry, finger-pointing and wishful thinking of their chosen "movement". What a joke!

Americans are just too god damned lazy and stupid, and that's because we are all overfed, navel-gazing, history and intellectual hating douche bags with too many LCD TVs and strip malls to bury ourselves under (willingly). No one wants to look at their own self and feel responsible, when they can just get off on being pissed vicariously through Glenn Beck-type talk shows.

Until things get really bad and Americans can no longer afford the luxuries that distract them and face a reality hard enough that they realize that this whole system serves a very elite few, it will continue exactly how it is.

One might think this time isn't far off. The middle class is shrinking. Generational advancements in wealth and social status are being reversed.

But still, people fight tax increases that really only effect a small, very rich, portion of society--why? Because they think that they could be a millionaire in a few years! Maybe they can, but not all 300+ million of them will be. A very small, hard working percentage will. Not your average voter. All proof the myth remains stronger than ever.

On top of this everyone has learned to be satisfied with what they can achieve--two cars, a home (at least in the past), some amount of cash for discretionary spending every year, maybe a vacation. That they have to work like drones and waste the large part of their lives in careers they hate is just accepted. We can't imagine a world that is otherwise. We feel lucky to break into the six digits income, when meanwhile the true rich, the elite families that control true wealth, they get to get richer as the poor and middle class fuel their own fantasies by paying them for the privilege.

Serfdom, only not as shitty as it was back in the day. At least we get 80+ channels of cable television and internet porn .

... ok i'll stop ranting now :P

[pornrecon]

Originally Posted by MetaMan

No i dont feel mad. I am quite happy. This will teach pension eating government employees what it is like in the real world for once.

I am tired of all these public sector douche bags leeching off the private sector. I hope it goes on.

It is amazing how the've been able to spin things so we blame the common public sector employee for the woes of a nation... scapegoats.

[PStarks]

Pretty sure if you turn to page 156 of your history book you will see this whole retarded mess already happened in the 90's and planes did not fall from the sky. It is just a game of chicken because the GOP overlords needs to get more things passed for their corporate overlords... oh yea and the fake jesus freaks that care so much about abortion, but don't mind killing women and children with bombs half a world away. WWJD? He would kick 98.9% of these morons in the balls.

It is a REALLY tough call between who I dislike more between the politicians and the religious morons(nevermind the religious moron politicians). Maybe we should just have them fight gladiator style on PPV? I would promote the shit out of that...

[MetaMan]

Originally Posted by Failed

Yeah, god damn those troops who won't be getting their paychecks, and those fucking public parks that won't open, and those scumbags who issue passports! God damn lucky our congressmen and president still get their paychecks or I would be really angry!

The government workforce is bloated. It is time for a reseting point. I'm tired of paying someone elses' salary and retirement fund. A good bitch slap is always nice.

Originally Posted by pornrecon

It is amazing how the've been able to spin things so we blame the common public sector employee for the woes of a nation... scapegoats.

fuck off with your "spin". I have felt this way for years i dont need the news to tell me when or when not to have an opinion on things.

[Brujah]

Vote out the incumbents again next round, until they get the hint.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by pornrecon

Unfortunately this is the reality, and it seems naive to think any solution will be found from within the system (voting, etc). Politics prevent any true change but in the end its the people's fault, really. It's not like there isn't hard information about how truly fucked up the entire system is, and how corrupt it has become: books, documentaries, and now the internet make it easier than ever to educate yourself. But to do that, you'd have to actually be curious about something other than what's on prime time tonight.

Tangent BS 'movements' like "Yes We Can" and the Tea Baggers distract that crucial middle that ride the fence between political apathy and taking action. They don't end up contributing to any real change but tire themselves out with the nonsense, bigotry, finger-pointing and wishful thinking of their chosen "movement". What a joke!

Americans are just too god damned lazy and stupid, and that's because we are all overfed, navel-gazing, history and intellectual hating douche bags with too many LCD TVs and strip malls to bury ourselves under (willingly). No one wants to look at their own self and feel responsible, when they can just get off on being pissed vicariously through Glenn Beck-type talk shows.

Until things get really bad and Americans can no longer afford the luxuries that distract them and face a reality hard enough that they realize that this whole system serves a very elite few, it will continue exactly how it is.

One might think this time isn't far off. The middle class is shrinking. Generational advancements in wealth and social status are being reversed.

But still, people fight tax increases that really only effect a small, very rich, portion of society--why? Because they think that they could be a millionaire in a few years! Maybe they can, but not all 300+ million of them will be. A very small, hard working percentage will. Not your average voter. All proof the myth remains stronger than ever.

On top of this everyone has learned to be satisfied with what they can achieve--two cars, a home (at least in the past), some amount of cash for discretionary spending every year, maybe a vacation. That they have to work like drones and waste the large part of their lives in careers they hate is just accepted. We can't imagine a world that is otherwise. We feel lucky to break into the six digits income, when meanwhile the true rich, the elite families that control true wealth, they get to get richer as the poor and middle class fuel their own fantasies by paying them for the privilege.

Serfdom, only not as shitty as it was back in the day. At least we get 80+ channels of cable television and internet porn .

... ok i'll stop ranting now :P

its stupidity like this that is the root of our problems.
You've been led to believe that the problem with this country is rich people.
The problem is not successful people, its the idiots that vote for clowns like obama.
did he get your vote with his "lets spread the wealth around" bullshit?

[PornoMonster]

Troops will still earn money, and if they do not get paid now, will get ALL back pay.
Baddog pointed something out

Originally Posted by baddog

I was in Arches National Park yesterday and talked with a couple rangers about how it will affect them.

Apparently this happened in the 90's (forget, 92 or 97). Essentially, they lock all the gates to all the national parks, and only mandatory employees will come in to work. Last time they were off work for two weeks, and received the back pay, and did not lose any vacation time they may have.

In a nutshell, the employees got an extra paid vacation and the park service lost the income they would have had if they stayed open.

[mynameisjim]

Makes sense to me. Cut spending for education and health services so companies like G.E. and Bank of American don't have to pay a dime in taxes. Don't forget the oil companies, they need $4 billion in tax subsidies just to keep the doors open since we all know there is no money in the oil business.

We have to make up all that corporate welfare somehow and doing it on the backs of the poor and middle class seems as American as apple pie.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

Makes sense to me. Cut spending for education and health services so companies like G.E. and Bank of American don't have to pay a dime in taxes. Don't forget the oil companies, they need $4 billion in tax subsidies just to keep the doors open since we all know there is no money in the oil business.

We have to make up all that corporate welfare somehow and doing it on the backs of the poor and middle class seems as American as apple pie.

taxing corporations is one of mankind's dumbest inventions.
If we dropped the corp rate to zero, we would have prosperity the likes of which we've never seen before.

C'est la vie

[pornrecon]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

its stupidity like this that is the root of our problems.
You've been led to believe that the problem with this country is rich people.
The problem is not successful people, its the idiots that vote for clowns like obama.
did he get your vote with his "lets spread the wealth around" bullshit?

I'm not talking about successful people, I'm talking about trust fund babies, old wealth from centuries ago type money and privilege. Not people who busted their ass and built a business empire from the ground up.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by pornrecon

I'm not talking about successful people, I'm talking about trust fund babies, old wealth from centuries ago type money and privilege. Not people who busted their ass and built a business empire from the ground up.

their money is still no one's but their own.
Its not yours, its not mine, and we have no right to it.
They're taxed on their income and investments just like everyone else is.

[BFT3K]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

Makes sense to me. Cut spending for education and health services so companies like G.E. and Bank of American don't have to pay a dime in taxes. Don't forget the oil companies, they need $4 billion in tax subsidies just to keep the doors open since we all know there is no money in the oil business.

We have to make up all that corporate welfare somehow and doing it on the backs of the poor and middle class seems as American as apple pie.

No doubt!

The big corporations already have a ZERO PERCENT tax rate here in the US.

[mynameisjim]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

taxing corporations is one of mankind's dumbest inventions.
If we dropped the corp rate to zero, we would have prosperity the likes of which we've never seen before.

C'est la vie

The tax is rate is less than zero for most companies already. G.E. paid zero in taxes and got over a billion dollars in subsidies. Bank of America got nearly 4 billion in subsidies and paid zero taxes.

After all the loopholes, 2/3 of U.S corporations pay zero in taxes.

So basically, YOUR tax money is used and given to those corporations.

[BJ]

fucking hippies!

[kbauerctu]

Originally Posted by pornrecon

Unfortunately this is the reality, and it seems naive to think any solution will be found from within the system (voting, etc). Politics prevent any true change but in the end its the people's fault, really. It's not like there isn't hard information about how truly fucked up the entire system is, and how corrupt it has become: books, documentaries, and now the internet make it easier than ever to educate yourself. But to do that, you'd have to actually be curious about something other than what's on prime time tonight.

Tangent BS 'movements' like "Yes We Can" and the Tea Baggers distract that crucial middle that ride the fence between political apathy and taking action. They don't end up contributing to any real change but tire themselves out with the nonsense, bigotry, finger-pointing and wishful thinking of their chosen "movement". What a joke!

Americans are just too god damned lazy and stupid, and that's because we are all overfed, navel-gazing, history and intellectual hating douche bags with too many LCD TVs and strip malls to bury ourselves under (willingly). No one wants to look at their own self and feel responsible, when they can just get off on being pissed vicariously through Glenn Beck-type talk shows.

Until things get really bad and Americans can no longer afford the luxuries that distract them and face a reality hard enough that they realize that this whole system serves a very elite few, it will continue exactly how it is.

One might think this time isn't far off. The middle class is shrinking. Generational advancements in wealth and social status are being reversed.

But still, people fight tax increases that really only effect a small, very rich, portion of society--why? Because they think that they could be a millionaire in a few years! Maybe they can, but not all 300+ million of them will be. A very small, hard working percentage will. Not your average voter. All proof the myth remains stronger than ever.

On top of this everyone has learned to be satisfied with what they can achieve--two cars, a home (at least in the past), some amount of cash for discretionary spending every year, maybe a vacation. That they have to work like drones and waste the large part of their lives in careers they hate is just accepted. We can't imagine a world that is otherwise. We feel lucky to break into the six digits income, when meanwhile the true rich, the elite families that control true wealth, they get to get richer as the poor and middle class fuel their own fantasies by paying them for the privilege.

Serfdom, only not as shitty as it was back in the day. At least we get 80+ channels of cable television and internet porn .

... ok i'll stop ranting now :P

Well put sir .

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

The tax is rate is less than zero for most companies already. G.E. paid zero in taxes and got over a billion dollars in subsidies. Bank of America got nearly 4 billion in subsidies and paid zero taxes.

After all the loopholes, 2/3 of U.S corporations pay zero in taxes.

So basically, YOUR tax money is used and given to those corporations.

you're simply incorrect when you say "most companies"
GE was able to recoup huge losses from the years before from its financial arm against current gains and they also have a strong tax department. If they weren't forced to move offshore because of one of the worlds highest corp rates, they wouldn't be there along with all those jobs.

and this: "After all the loopholes, 2/3 of U.S corporations pay zero in taxes. " is an absolute lie. stop going to wherever it is you read that. its filling your head with falsehood.

[theking]

Even if there is a shutdown...the President has the authority to order that the military is paid...or any other government agency that he chooses to be paid...but for political reasons/games...he may or may not...exercise his power.

[mynameisjim]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

you're simply incorrect when you say "most companies"
GE was able to recoup huge losses from the years before from its financial arm against current gains and they also have a strong tax department. If they weren't forced to move offshore because of one of the worlds highest corp rates, they wouldn't be there along with all those jobs.

and this: "After all the loopholes, 2/3 of U.S corporations pay zero in taxes. " is an absolute lie. stop going to wherever it is you read that. its filling your head with falsehood.

I got the 2/3 number from the GAO (Government Accountability Office) official report.

But I assume you pay your taxes. So are you happy that your tax money is funneled to corporations who are already making billions in profits?

Either way, I guess we disagree. I'm off to enjoy the weekend.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

I got the 2/3 number from the GAO (Government Accountability Office) official report.

But I assume you pay your taxes. So are you happy that your tax money is funneled to corporations who are already making billions in profits?

Either way, I guess we disagree. I'm off to enjoy the weekend.

I'm always looking to be educated.
show me the link.
and a corp paying no taxes in a given year does not "funneling my tax money to corporations" make.

[Failed]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

I'm always looking to be educated.
show me the link.
and a corp paying no taxes in a given year does not "funneling my tax money to corporations" make.

You could not be more wrong. There is a quota on how much taxes to collect and from whom. By allowing corporations to run tax free, and even giving them tax rebates, you're paying more taxes and directly funneling money into the corporations. You believe it's the Democrats, or the Republicans that raise your taxes It's the corporations. A tax break/refund for them is a tax increase for you. Open your eyes!

[kbauerctu]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

its stupidity like this that is the root of our problems.
You've been led to believe that the problem with this country is rich people.
The problem is not successful people, its the idiots that vote for clowns like obama.
did he get your vote with his "lets spread the wealth around" bullshit?

I don't think this guy is referring to millionaires, or even multi-millionaires. Were talking Koch brothers status. Rich people with enough money to pay lobbyists, to sway public opinion, and control media outlets. Kind of like William Randolph Hearst or the Rothschilds, or the Rockefellers.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Failed

You could not be more wrong. There is a quota on how much taxes to collect and from whom. By allowing corporations to run tax free, and even giving them tax rebates, you're paying more taxes and directly funneling money into the corporations. You believe it's the Democrats, or the Republicans that raise your taxes It's the corporations. A tax break/refund for them is a tax increase for you. Open your eyes!

Um, yeah.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by kbauerctu

I don't think this guy is referring to millionaires, or even multi-millionaires. Were talking Koch brothers status. Rich people with enough money to pay lobbyists, to sway public opinion, and control media outlets. Kind of like William Randolph Hearst or the Rothschilds, or the Rockefellers.

What about them?
If they have earned income, it's taxed just like mine. If they have investment income it's taxed just like mine.
The problem is spending.
The problem is a 40% voting block that doesn't pay income tax.

[kbauerctu]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

What about them?
If they have earned income, it's taxed just like mine. If they have investment income it's taxed just like mine.
The problem is spending.
The problem is a 40% voting block that doesn't pay income tax.

You are correct. The problem is spending. I'm not saying it isn't; but it is also where we are spending (I will get to that in a bit)

Original poster is just pointing out that while we bicker about taxes, there's a larger more insidious movement of wealth from the middle class and upper middle class to the 1% of this nations wealthiest family's. This is happening because, through their power, their are able to manipulate the system for their own financial gain. What worries me is the growing number of poor, destitute, and uneducated people I see every single day. I swear these numbers are increasing. Gotham city is coming, so go buy a gun.



I don't believe in crushing the back bone that has made the US a hegemonic world power, its middle class. It steams me that the government will continue to pay the politicians their salaries, but not a soldier in Afghanistan during this government black out.


Also...It's important to remember where we spend, and where we don't.
I'm reminded of a move I watched a few years back, Idiocracy. The meta commentary on today's society is priceless.

Education is the single most important tool we can give our people. Why do we continually make cuts to it? Why not cut the military budget? Maybe a little less imperialism would go a long way to restoring our budgets? 12Clicks, I know you would appreciate a world with less ignorant people.

[split_joel]

I am not here blaming the public or private sector, and yes I agree it is the people who elect these guys into office that is the problem but this is not about the rich or the poor, the healthy and the sick. Most people here are taking a political spin and trying to whos right and whos wrong. My simple point is that things are really backwards when our troops do not get pay checks while our upper level officals in the fed government do.