45% Don't Owe U.S. Income Tax

[PornoMonster]

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/14/pf/t...dex.htm?hpt=T1

[charlie g]

Alan Agus8:56 am
How about selling illegal mexicans to africa for slaves. There is an over abundance of these people and africa needs food. I am not suggesting that the africans eat the mexicans, but that the mexicans can plant oranges and tomatoes....but, if in a pinch maybe they can eat a few mexicans, who knows?

I figure the US can sell a good working age mexican for $2500, all problems solved. There seems to be more entering everyday, so the potential profit is great. Plus, as I understand these people reproduce at 3-4 times the rate of white americans this could be a self-sustaining enterprise and a long term solution to american's desires to consume everything and produce nothing.... except charlie sheen and oprah.

LOL in the comment section.

[scubadiver626]

Great comment lol perfect solution

[J. Falcon]

Wow that's a big ass sig.

[Barefootsies]

Cue 12clicks and theDoc in 5....4....3....

[Rochard]

Only poor people pay taxes.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/14/pf/t...dex.htm?hpt=T1

And many of those same 45% belong to the tea party and bitch about how THEIR taxes are spent.

[woj]

it's too late for me to take a closer look, but is it they will owe no $$ altogether? or no additional $$ when you take what was already deducted from their paychecks into account?

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by woj

it's too late for me to take a closer look, but is it they will owe no $$ altogether? or no additional $$ when you take what was already deducted from their paychecks into account?

nearly half of U.S. households end up owing no federal income tax when all is said and done.

[abshard]

Must be from having kids and getting big credits

[PornoMonster]

Originally Posted by abshard

Must be from having kids and getting big credits

I guess if you adopt a child you get like 13K back for every child.
One family got 54K this year.

[james_clickmemedia]

If you have a number of children, own your own home, pay property taxes, have children under kindergarten age and pay for child care etc, I believe you can earn around 75k gross and end up paying no federal income tax. At least in Texas anyway with our high property taxes of 2.5%.

[james_clickmemedia]

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Cue 12clicks and theDoc in 5....4....3....

let hope not.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by GatorB

And many of those same 45% belong to the tea party and bitch about how THEIR taxes are spent.

But much more do not and bitch that the other 55% are not taxed enough so they can pay for other peoples children. Kind of like Obama's last speech on the budget.

Want to make it "even"? No one should pay an income tax. Lets get past this fucking class warfare.

[12clicks]

yeah, imagine who much better the country would run if there was a monetary consequence to the bottom 45%'s vote.
perhaps we'd get a little less spending if it cost ALL of us something

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by GatorB

And many of those same 45% belong to the tea party and bitch about how THEIR taxes are spent.

[Caligari]

the tax model is stupid, flat tax is the way to go then everyone pays 10% for example and thats it. no fancy accountant bullshit just 10% which applies to everyone including corporations. you make a million you pay 200k, no bullshit, you make 20k you pay 2k etc.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by Caligari

the tax model is stupid, flat tax is the way to go then everyone pays 10% for example and thats it. no fancy accountant bullshit just 10% which applies to everyone including corporations. you make a million you pay 200k, no bullshit, you make 20k you pay 2k etc.

Why are corporations taxed like people?
They shouldn't be.
It's the same sort of mindset the government works on to get everyone to agree to over tax the rich.

You set it up as "them"
And then explain how "we" need to tax "them"

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

Why are corporations taxed like people?
They shouldn't be.
It's the same sort of mindset the government works on to get everyone to agree to over tax the rich.

You set it up as "them"
And then explain how "we" need to tax "them"

Corporations are treated as individuals... didn't you know that? Read the Citizens United ruling...

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by nation-x

Corporations are treated as individuals... didn't you know that? Read the Citizens United ruling...

I know that they are. I also explained why. so fools like you can be led by the nose by your "leaders"

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

Why are corporations taxed like people?
They shouldn't be.
It's the same sort of mindset the government works on to get everyone to agree to over tax the rich.

You set it up as "them"
And then explain how "we" need to tax "them"

why shouldn't they be? it seems most big/smart corps don't pay much taxes anyways. its the average citizen paying the majority of income taxes. they may not make a ton of money but there are a ton of them.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

why shouldn't they be? it seems most big/smart corps don't pay much taxes anyways. its the average citizen paying the majority of income taxes. they may not make a ton of money but there are a ton of them.

you're mistaken.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

I know that they are. I also explained why. so fools like you can be led by the nose by your "leaders"

I am glad you quoted "leaders"...

See... that is the funny thing about this whole discussion... in your mind it's "us against the poor" meme that has been pushed by the Heritage Foundation and other "conservative" think tanks for decades now. Republicans constantly say that it's class warfare... I find that particularly telling considering the massive consolidation of wealth and power that has occurred in my 42 years as a battery...

Here is the real truth... The idea of "representative government" is a sham, literally. Starting with Reagan, his choice of Don Regan for Treasury Secretary and the all out assault on regulation, we have been a victim of the merger of corporate interests and governmental interests... neither of which represent our interests as citizens. George Bush and the Republican controlled Congress were our undertakers and sealed the coffin. You are watching the demise of America played out on television like it's a sitcom...

Here are some real numbers... how many "rabble" have died in wars started by the Plutocracy over oil or in the name of "business interest". That number is greatly over-represented by the "lower class". Here is what I see... the end of the US brought to you by Carl's Jr.

I think it's funny that you subscribe to the nonsense that you subscribe to... if it were up to Republicans you would have your assets seized and you would be incarcerated.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53314.html

[IllTestYourGirls]

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by nation-x

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/53314.html

Holder was going after porn in 1998.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshge...orn_cases.html

It is not a left/right thing it is an AUTHORITARIAN thing. Anyone from the right that claims to be for "going after something" is a big government authoritarian, same goes for those on the left.

[Paul Markham]

I don't pay any tax, in fact the CZ Government is in the process of paying me back all the money I paid from 2000 till 2008.

I only need to live to be 258, to get it all back. LOL

Already half way there. LOL

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

it is an AUTHORITARIAN thing

point taken

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by nation-x

I am glad you quoted "leaders"...

See... that is the funny thing about this whole discussion... in your mind it's "us against the poor" meme that has been pushed by the Heritage Foundation and other "conservative" think tanks for decades now.

come on, silly kid.
its not "us against the poor" its "rabble like you against those of us who pay more than our fair share"

You see, I'm for lower taxes for everyone who pays. You, who're being led by the nose by obama, believe only YOU deserve lower taxes but your betters don't.

Even when I made what you made, I knew that wasn't right. I wonder why you think otherwise.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

This video presents a false argument and seeks to exploit the naivety of the viewer (propaganda). It assumes a "pie in the sky" premise that society can function without authority and that a system of voluntary contribution is feasible. The narrator explains that it is unfair to use the threat of violence to make people pay taxes and presents "Oliver" and his family as the sole beneficiary of Georges' involuntary contribution.

It is fairly reasonable to say that it is impossible to obtain a semblance of society without any authoritarianism. You will often here people say "We are a nation of laws". All successful nations represent a "nation of laws". Without law, wealthy men would simply be warlords (as is the case in many undeveloped countries).

The premise that Georges' contributions are used primarily to "redistribute wealth" to people like Oliver is false when applied to reality. That is the biggest myth pushed by politicians and the media. I will detail why below. In the context of the budget, Social Security have NO EFFECT on the deficit. Social Security has it's own fund which currently has a surplus of $2.3 Trillion and is solvent for the next 25 years. There does need to be some changes in order to guarantee it's solvency beyond 25 years but in the context of deficits... it has no place in the discussion. This should be a separate discussion.

The problem with entitlement programs lies with Medicare/Medicaid. Currently, the average Medicare recipient pays in about 1/3rd of the benefits they receive. That certainly isn't sustainable. The projected cost of care was way off and those costs have grown at a rate that greatly outpaced contributions. This is just a point that I had to make... it doesn't really apply to the discussion about the video... but it had to be noted.

Now... the video above paints a picture of people having to pay taxes in order to assist the poor. That simply is a false premise because the great majority of the money they contribute to taxes don't go to welfare OR social programs in general (other than Medicare/Medicaid). In 2010, Medicare contributions totaled a little over $499B and Medicare/Medicaid cost $798B. That means it contributed roughly $200B to the deficit.

When you consider that tax revenue is roughly $2.2 Trillion, $200B is a small percentage of that revenue at a little under 10%.

In the scheme of things... your taxes, in general, aren't being spent on welfare programs as a greater expense. The great majority of it is going to military spending.

Another thing to consider is that the same authority that would force George to pay taxes also protects George.

I am not making a statement as to whether or not taxes are a good thing... I am only stating that the video is based on a false premise and is propaganda.

[magicmike]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

why shouldn't they be? it seems most big/smart corps don't pay much taxes anyways. its the average citizen paying the majority of income taxes. they may not make a ton of money but there are a ton of them.

Corporations shouldn't pay taxes because they aren't people. Corporations will always pass on their tax liabilities to consumers and employees.

If a corporation isn't taxed then it has more money to pay its employees whom are all taxed.

Any based on your point of big / smart corps don't pay taxes, this just furthers the point. Remove corp. taxes to level the playing field between small business and large corporations.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

come on, silly kid.
its not "us against the poor" its "rabble like you against those of us who pay more than our fair share"

You see, I'm for lower taxes for everyone who pays. You, who're being led by the nose by obama, believe only YOU deserve lower taxes but your betters don't.

Even when I made what you made, I knew that wasn't right. I wonder why you think otherwise.

For the record, I support a flat tax system. However, we are not under a flat tax system... we are under a progressive tax system. Based on that fact, I don't think it made sense to start 2 wars, pass an unfunded medicare prescription drug program AND lower taxes to the tune of $2+ Trillion over the last 10 years. Maybe logic escapes those who call others "rabble".

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by nation-x

For the record, I support a flat tax system. However, we are not under a flat tax system... we are under a progressive tax system. Based on that fact, I don't think it made sense to start 2 wars, pass an unfunded medicare prescription drug program AND lower taxes to the tune of $2+ Trillion over the last 10 years. Maybe logic escapes those who call others "rabble".

gee, with all your brilliance, how do you remain silent on giving up YOUR lower tax rate.

or an even easier one. you hate all the spending bush did but remain utterly silent on obama's far larger spending.

typical.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by nation-x

The premise that Georges' contributions are used primarily to "redistribute wealth" to people like Oliver is false when applied to reality.

no, if you understood reality, you'd understand that the rich bear the tax burden of the 45% who currently pay nothing. THAT, dear boy, is a redistribution of wealth.
If the 45% who pay nothing, paid 30% like the rest of us, we would not be in the position we now find ourselves.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

gee, with all your brilliance, how do you remain silent on giving up YOUR lower tax rate.

or an even easier one. you hate all the spending bush did but remain utterly silent on obama's far larger spending.

typical.

If my monthly budget exceeds my income, I had better be looking at how I can lower my budget AND look for additional income opportunities. Republicans ran up the great majority of the debt we currently have... so why would I assume that they will fix it? They won't.

I HATE paying taxes. I also hate paying my bills... but I do it because it is my obligation. Unfortunately, politicians don't seem to understand that logic.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

no, if you understood reality, you'd understand that the rich bear the tax burden of the 45% who currently pay nothing. THAT, dear boy, is a redistribution of wealth.
If the 45% who pay nothing, paid 30% like the rest of us, we would not be in the position we now find ourselves.

The wealthy don't pay 45%. They pay an average of 17% (this year). I am totally for having everyone pay a 17% sales tax on everything they buy except for food.

[nation-x]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/taxreceipt

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by nation-x

The wealthy don't pay 45%. They pay an average of 17% (this year). I am totally for having everyone pay a 17% sales tax on everything they buy except for food.

you misunderstand. either intentionally or not.

45% of the population pay ZERO tax. That tab is picked up by the 55% who do.
having someone else pay your way is wealth distribution.

[12clicks]

and you're still oddly silent about the sense it makes for you to keep YOUR tax cut.

which is why I so often classify you as rabble.

its not an earnings thing, its a mindset.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

and you're still oddly silent about the sense it makes for you to keep YOUR tax cut.

which is why I so often classify you as rabble.

its not an earnings thing, its a mindset.

I currently pay 28% top rate which would go up by 3% if the tax cuts expire to 31%. 3% isn't going to make much of a difference in my lifestyle. I probably spend more than 3% of my income on taking my wife out to dinner on Fridays.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by nation-x

missed the point, but has good points

It was an example. Is taxation theft? Should you be taxed to bomb countries?

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by nation-x

I currently pay 28% top rate which would go up by 3% if the tax cuts expire to 31%. 3% isn't going to make much of a difference in my lifestyle. I probably spend more than 3% of my income on taking my wife out to dinner on Fridays.

It is not too late, you can always make a check out for 3% of your income to the treasury Or do you need to be forced and want to force others, to do it?

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by nation-x

I currently pay 28% top rate which would go up by 3% if the tax cuts expire to 31%. 3% isn't going to make much of a difference in my lifestyle. I probably spend more than 3% of my income on taking my wife out to dinner on Fridays.

and yet you're utterly silent on offering them back as the right thing to do. Your consistent worry is for those already paying far more than you to pay even more.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

you misunderstand. either intentionally or not.

45% of the population pay ZERO tax. That tab is picked up by the 55% who do.
having someone else pay your way is wealth distribution.

There are alot of abused welfare programs that I would end if I had a say:

Section 8 - this is one of the most abused programs and not primarily by recipients... by landlords
Down Payment Assistance - This is a subsidy for the seller... not the buyer
Federally guaranteed loans from the US Export Bank to foreign entities
subsidies for oil companies
subsidies for companies that close factories here to move them overseas

All of these things are wealth redistribution that wealthy people make HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS yearly on and I could make a list as long as my arm.

I don't see anyone who is complaining about poor people not owing taxes complaining about that...

Again, we currently have a progressive tax system. If 45% of people don't pay taxes it's because they didn't meet the threshold to owe them...

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

It was an example. Is taxation theft? Should you be taxed to bomb countries?

This argument is a straw man... US citizens are obligated to pay taxes the minute they were born... we are like batteries for the machine. We are slaves to the system... what do you want me to say? The problem is that we don't have control of the machine.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by nation-x

There are alot of abused welfare programs that I would end if I had a say:

Section 8 - this is one of the most abused programs and not primarily by recipients... by landlords
Down Payment Assistance - This is a subsidy for the seller... not the buyer
Federally guaranteed loans from the US Export Bank to foreign entities
subsidies for oil companies
subsidies for companies that close factories here to move them overseas

All of these things are wealth redistribution that wealthy people make HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS yearly on and I could make a list as long as my arm.

I don't see anyone who is complaining about poor people not owing taxes complaining about that...

Again, we currently have a progressive tax system. If 45% of people don't pay taxes it's because they didn't meet the threshold to owe them...

If you'd like to discuss this, we certainly can. however, you're post about our tax system not being a redistribution of wealth remains incorrect.


oh, and considering the wealthy pay most of the taxes, giving subsidies to companies would NOT be wealth distribution.

[12clicks]

Originally Posted by nation-x

This argument is a straw man... US citizens are obligated to pay taxes the minute they were born...

there's a 45% number out there that says you're wrong.

Originally Posted by nation-x

we are like batteries for the machine. We are slaves to the system... what do you want me to say? The problem is that we don't have control of the machine.

we would if EVERYONE had to pay. when the bottom 45% can vote without any monetary consequence, you have a real problem.

[Relentless]

Wow... from the looks of this thread it must be really awesome to earn less than 50K per year and pay NO federal income taxes! Sure, you still pay state income taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes and the like - and you have no money for investments, retirement or disposable income.... but hey, I'm sure plenty of billionaires go to sleep each night dreaming of the utopian possibility that tomorrow they may find a way to actually spend 9 figures of savings so that next year they can pay 17% less to the federal government. It's a wonder the Koch family doesn't just give all their money to a family of rural 'liberals' from Appalachia so they can get stuck paying 17% taxes on those billions of dollars instead next year!

There are only two reasonable solutions:
1) A flat tax with a universal 'cost of living exclusion'
2) A graduated VAT where necessities like food are not taxed and items with a larger shared cost like private jets, gas guzzling cars and the like are tagged with an additional surcharge.


Take your pick.

[nation-x]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

there's a 45% number out there that says you're wrong.

we would if EVERYONE had to pay. when the bottom 45% can vote without any monetary consequence, you have a real problem.

We are discussing "federal income taxes". We all pay state, county, city and excise taxes (depending on whether or not your state, county or city has taxes). Not to mention other government fees.

I wonder if you were complaining about income redistribution when Bush was sending $600 checks to everyone that made under $75k. Just wondering.

Obama didn't create the income tax system... almost everyone who did is dead. I agree that the tax system should be changed but I also don't think that someone working at McDonalds for minimum wage should be required to pay 30% income tax. We should be concentrated on getting them educated for a more productive career. I view that as investment in America's future rather than welfare. A rising tide lifts all boats kind of thing...

[V_RocKs]

If we set tax at 20% across the board...

We would grossly over pay taxes. In one year we'd kill the debt. The next year we would have to set it to something more like 5.7% across the board or we'd collect way too much tax...

[Paul Markham]

We all want lower taxes.

We all want the police, firemen, paramedics or any disaster service on our doorstep when needed
We all want roads.
We all want everything the Government gives us.

Can't have everything we want all the time.

12clicks. The reason the US is in debt is because for too long, you were getting all you needed. On borrowed money. What do you propose to give up to pay back the debt?

Because you will have to give up something, because the borrowed money ended up in your pockets. Not all of it directly, but the the vast amount of it flowed into the US economy. And that supported the US life style. For the last decade.