EMP - Electromagnetic Pulse, Just read an interesting book.

[L-Pink]

"One Second After" Very interesting book about the biggest real threat to America. A single nuclear blast 20-25 miles above the US that will render useless any electronic device plunging America into a new dark age where more than 80% will die from starvation, disease and violence within a few months.


Quote from the books afterword;

"It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when"

General Eugene Harbiger
USAF
Former Commander-in-Chief
US Strategic Command

[~Ray]

same coiuld happen to any country

[ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Thats kinda wrong. Nukes have a hard time near the vacuum of space. There is simply not enough material to keep fission to create a good effect. In short his theory is wrong and convoluted and defies simple scientific facts regarding fission in space. EMP might be a problem but that in itself is theory. EMP could also just dissipate and have zero effect. Read below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-al...lear_explosion

But then the idea of a Nuke coming into American air space without detection and removal is pretty remote, its just not that easy to pull off.

In short I would not count on this happening anytime soon. Great read I am sure for paranoid folks there is a big market for it and giving another thing to be afraid of is big bucks!

[moeloubani]

Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy

Thats kinda wrong. Nukes have a hard time near the vacuum of space. There is simply not enough material to keep fission to create a good effect. In short his theory is wrong and convoluted and defies simple scientific facts regarding fission in space. EMP might be a problem but that in itself is theory. EMP could also just dissipate and have zero effect.

But then the idea of a Nuke coming into American air space without detection and removal is pretty remote, its just not that easy to pull off.

In short I would not count on this happening anytime soon. Great read I am sure for paranoid folks there is a big market for it and giving another thing to be afraid of is big bucks!

Really, or are you making that all up? Simply not enough material to keep fission? What does that mean? All the material that is used up in a nuclear fission bomb is already on the bomb. There has been nuclear detonations 500+km up in space.

Please don't say things like 'simple scientific facts' when you're making things up.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy

Thats kinda wrong. Nukes have a hard time near the vacuum of space. There is simply not enough material to keep fission to create a good effect.

But then the idea of a Nuke coming into American air space without detection and removal is pretty remote, its just not that easy to pull off.

In short I would not count on this happening anytime soon. Great read I am sure for paranoid folks there is a big market for it and giving another thing to be afraid of big bucks!

You are way off base. This is the biggest concern of the US Strategic Command regarding threats to national security.

[ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Well read the wiki artical Nukes behave alot different in space. I am no expert but they are very different in space and behave more like solar flair does. Alot of it just dissipates harmlessly and does trash satelites.

EMP is a problem for any country.
EMP the ultimate breakdown of civilization? Hardly.

I mean OK, lets just go into fantasy land. Russia is back or China and they have nukes. You think they want to start a war by opening up with a couple stupid EMP bombs in space? I doubt it.

Mutually assured destruction is one fuck of a deturant. I kinda doubt that would be the opener.
It certainly would not be my opening move in a global war.

[Coup]

Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy

But then the idea of a Nuke coming into American air space without detection and removal is pretty remote, its just not that easy to pull off.

People actually still believe American airspace is some kind of impenetrable force field? even after 9-11 happened? heh.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy

Well read the wiki artical Nukes behave alot different in space. I am no expert but they are very different in space and behave more like solar flair does. Alot of it just dissipates harmlessly.

EMP is a problem for any country.
EMP the ultimate breakdown of civilization? Hardly.

The single magnetic pulse which is instantaneous and not even noticed by humans wipes out anything electronic. Planes fall from the sky, all but old cars stop, power plants stop, water pumping stations stop, food disappears off shelves in days not to return. Medical supplies aren't replaced, etc ...... The affected area does face total civil breakdown.

All countries are at risk but we know the country of choice for this kind of act.

[ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE]

OK so a bunch of peoples cell phones are knocked out and planes fall from the sky.

Thats nice.
America nukes and military are hardened in EMP in bunkers and sealed area's underground, sure a couple MIGHT go out but not everything. Then of course submarines sitting in almost every corner of the globe armed with 10-20 nukes each wont be touched...
SO fucking wut? If thats the opening move thats a joke! Within 20 minutes America's nukes are under way to blow the fuck out of where ever they came from.

America wins everyone gets a new phone and new planes a few weeks later, and the offending foreign countries idea of nuclear war is remembered as the stupidest fucking thing a country can do to initiate a war as we build glass skating rings in a new desert in memory of the fallen.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy

OK so a bunch of peoples cell phones are knocked out and planes fall from the sky.

Thats nice.
SO fucking wut? If thats the opening move, within 20 minutes America's nukes are under way to blow the fuck out of where ever they came from.

America wins and the foreign countries idea of nuclear warfair is remembered as the stupidest fucking thing a country can do to initiate a war.

What country do we hit if the missile was launched by a cargo vessel, private launch site, etc.

The part of the book that really hit home was how much more vulnerable we become each day with unprotected advances in technology. We are a nation that can't survive more than a few months once the lights are out.

[ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE]

So now we are going to talk about a Cargo vessel launching an ICBM or Rocket into space undetected by anything till it goes off.

Sigh...

[ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Does the rocket have stealth technology?

[ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Is the leader of this terrorist organization

UHmm



?

[ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE]

If you get Doctor Evil, what Guys do I get?

Which Bond should I choose?





I think Sean Connery since he took care of Dr. No. and might have some expert opinion on The Doctor Evil types.

[Choker]

I thought only electronics that are turned on during a EMP gets fried? I remember watching somewhere that the biggest concern is a EMP or solar flare knocking out the dozen or so main power junctions, that we dont have replacements for them and they take a year to manufacture.

[L-Pink]

Pick your small country then, North Korea for example. This isn't hysterical stuff or something I want to argue over. It's the biggest concern of the US Strategic Command. The point the book makes is our total lack of preparedness, our misplaced priorities for defense spending and the biggest, weakest link in our security. The easiest way to cripple the worlds number one target.

Months before this book was published it was cited on the floor of Congress as a book all Americans should read. You might want to also ........

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy

Is the leader of this terrorist organization

UHmm



?

And your pasted photos have what to do with the guy below ......

"It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when"

General Eugene Harbiger
USAF
Former Commander-in-Chief
US Strategic Command



.

[ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Well... Lets talk about the book. Since this clearly relates to money.

What industry gets the biggest amount of Tax Dollars? Oh that would be the defense industry with a whopping 40%-50% domestic spending.

Lets ad the political angle.
This book brandishing military theory of dooms day sell's well to people and its not the price of the book, its the idea of our demise. How do you make people believe that Military spending at 50% of our budget is an absolute necessity?

Do not get me wrong but America spends a fuck ton on defense, more so by far than any other country or even countries in the world combined.

As a people we got trade off's... In political reasoning is...

Lets cut education and these so called "Entitlement programs" before even considering cutting defense spending. The argument holds no water. Dumb people believe the book, dumb people say, "Oh lets not cut defense spending I do not mind poor people living in boxes starving or my kid getting a fucked education I rather have dumb kids than armagedon!"

Politicians and military official prey on our fears. This book is nothing more than a special interest of the military spending machine.

But lets get back to the book...
This man held the book up in congress protesting something must be done and there is no question if but when. How great is that?

Judge for yourself the real motive. Fact is if North Korea wanted to do something like that I suppose they could try but the end game is the end of that nation regardless of succeeding in its funny EMP prank.

So again... The book is propaganda to instill fear.
My point of view is America needs to cut defense spending and put the money towards better education and even welfare programs and internal construction. I am not for giving tax breaks to wealthy while cutting off medicare and social security or even privatizing in any manor while lowering standards of education for the sake of even more defense spending.

We got plenty of military toys well ahead of any other country in the world and it will remain so even if our domestic spending to the military was cut to 20%, which is a sober amount of spending in itself vs 40%-50% which is completely insane and over kill and over spending.

Its part of a larger game at play and the name of the game is how dumb is the American Citizen? Can we keep spending money on stupid shit and line the pockets of conservative warmongers at the expense of stupid generations ahead and more card board boxes for the homeless and unemployed?

Chop even 10% of defense spending and we can erase the national debt in record time.

[Shey]

Well, The Terminator is out of a job and single, he's got this...

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy

Judge for yourself the real motive.

The real motive is we are spending way to much money unwisely. If we are truly concerned with national defense, OUR nations defense, then we need to upgrade our way of thinking/spending to keep pace with the high tech world we now have.

[L-Pink]

Aircraft carriers, stealth planes, smart bombs are all used in attacking other countries. What is being spent, what is being done protecting our own way of life.

[ThatOtherGuy - BANNED FOR LIFE]

Don't get me wrong L Pink
I love military science, and Science itself its one of my other hobbies. I am straight up born and bred geek and grew up playing world domination strategy games from Risk to Battle Field 1941. I love warfare simulations and science fiction warfare and very proud of the American Military and its abilities.

I will fucking kick your ass in Starcraft and Starcraft 2, Warcraft and World Of Warcraft

I used to paint tanks and when I was 6 building Panzer model tanks and in my teens knowing everything to know about an M1 Tank with my shelves lined up on various rule books for military strategy games I had an army of lead army figures and the jeeps, ships and airplanes. I was sold from day one on destruction and war and its possibilities.

But still spending is way to high on Defense and I try and keep things in perspective, everything is a sell starting from childhood. We are givin little GI Joe's and watch War Hero's in movies. War is glorified and the bottom line is they are nothing but a hard sell to say yes when it comes to military interests.

Its hard to let go and see it but thats all it is. A sales pitch starting at infancy.

[papill0n]

Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy

OK so a bunch of peoples cell phones are knocked out and planes fall from the sky.

Thats nice.
America nukes and military are hardened in EMP in bunkers and sealed area's underground, sure a couple MIGHT go out but not everything. Then of course submarines sitting in almost every corner of the globe armed with 10-20 nukes each wont be touched...
SO fucking wut? If thats the opening move thats a joke! Within 20 minutes America's nukes are under way to blow the fuck out of where ever they came from.

America wins everyone gets a new phone and new planes a few weeks later, and the offending foreign countries idea of nuclear war is remembered as the stupidest fucking thing a country can do to initiate a war as we build glass skating rings in a new desert in memory of the fallen.

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy

Well... Lets talk about the book. Since this clearly relates to money.

What industry gets the biggest amount of Tax Dollars? Oh that would be the defense industry with a whopping 40%-50% domestic spending.

Lets ad the political angle.
This book brandishing military theory of dooms day sell's well to people and its not the price of the book, its the idea of our demise. How do you make people believe that Military spending at 50% of our budget is an absolute necessity?

Do not get me wrong but America spends a fuck ton on defense, more so by far than any other country or even countries in the world combined.

As a people we got trade off's... In political reasoning is...

Lets cut education and these so called "Entitlement programs" before even considering cutting defense spending. The argument holds no water. Dumb people believe the book, dumb people say, "Oh lets not cut defense spending I do not mind poor people living in boxes starving or my kid getting a fucked education I rather have dumb kids than armagedon!"

Politicians and military official prey on our fears. This book is nothing more than a special interest of the military spending machine.

But lets get back to the book...
This man held the book up in congress protesting something must be done and there is no question if but when. How great is that?

Judge for yourself the real motive. Fact is if North Korea wanted to do something like that I suppose they could try but the end game is the end of that nation regardless of succeeding in its funny EMP prank.

So again... The book is propaganda to instill fear.
My point of view is America needs to cut defense spending and put the money towards better education and even welfare programs and internal construction. I am not for giving tax breaks to wealthy while cutting off medicare and social security or even privatizing in any manor while lowering standards of education for the sake of even more defense spending.

We got plenty of military toys well ahead of any other country in the world and it will remain so even if our domestic spending to the military was cut to 20%, which is a sober amount of spending in itself vs 40%-50% which is completely insane and over kill and over spending.

Its part of a larger game at play and the name of the game is how dumb is the American Citizen? Can we keep spending money on stupid shit and line the pockets of conservative warmongers at the expense of stupid generations ahead and more card board boxes for the homeless and unemployed?

Chop even 10% of defense spending and we can erase the national debt in record time.

You are out of your fucking mind. It's a good thing you are not in a position of power in government.

Military is a legitimate role of government. Entitlement programs are not.

Entitlement programs are killing us. Not spending on military will do the same thing.

Didn't you learn anything from the "peace movement" and the unpreparedness for WWII which almost gave Europe to Hitler? How about Pearl Harbor? Didn't you learn anything from 9-11?

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

"One Second After" Very interesting book about the biggest real threat to America. A single nuclear blast 20-25 miles above the US that will render useless any electronic device plunging America into a new dark age where more than 80% will die from starvation, disease and violence within a few months.


Quote from the books afterword;

"It is not a matter of if, it is a matter of when"

General Eugene Harbiger
USAF
Former Commander-in-Chief
US Strategic Command

I think the real Achilles heel is at around 250 miles..

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

I think the real Achilles heel is at around 250 miles..

You are correct. I re-read that part and it was 200-250 miles. not 20-25 miles.

.

[seeandsee]

Fucking terminators should just sent fucking supernuke back to time and destory earth