Question to NATS guys about programs that are gone but still use your script. - GoFuckYourself.com

Just Alex · 07-07-2011, 04:59 PM

Looks like http://www.adultstarprofits.com are long gone. Their main site redirects to god know where but they still use NATS as if nothing ever happened.

These guys obviously aren't paying affiliates nor their models (use search here), yet they continue to operate with your help.

Example: http://mytattoogirls.com/tour3/

Whats up with that?

Chris · 07-07-2011, 05:01 PM

At the end of the day it is not NATS job to make sure a company pays you.

Should they refuse a clients money because they decide not to pay affiliates?

NATS is not the internet police

Just Alex · 07-07-2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

At the end of the day it is not NATS job to make sure a company pays you.

Should they refuse a clients money because they decide not to pay affiliates?

NATS is not the internet police

Oh, Ok. Thats not shaving because you cant even access your stats or the website that leased the script. Makes perfect sense.
Get people to advertize your program and then 404 them to fucking nowhere and keep the money.

Chris · 07-07-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Alex

Oh, Ok. Thats not shaving because you cant even access your stats or the website that leased the script. Makes perfect sense.
Get people to advertize your program and then 404 them to fucking nowhere and keep the money.

What the program did was very wrong - yes. the ppl that do that give our industry a bad name.

How is nats to blame tho?

Thats like if that program used paxum for payouts - should we cover their payouts if they have money in their accounts if nats provides us with the dump file?

Just Alex · 07-07-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

What the program did was very wrong - yes. the ppl that do that give our industry a bad name.

How is nats to blame tho?

Thats like if that program used paxum for payouts - should we cover their payouts if they have money in their accounts if nats provides us with the dump file?

No, its not NATS fault that they stopped paying, its NATS assistance in defrauding affiliates is what im questioning. Revoke their license and stop helping them with fraud.
Im sure if Paxum (guessing you, since you work for them) finds out that someone is defrauding and accepting money thru the system, you would shut down the account immediately.

Chris · 07-07-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Alex

No, its not NATS fault that they stopped paying, its NATS assistance in defrauding affiliates is what im questioning. Revoke their license and stop helping them with fraud.
Im sure if Paxum (guessing you, since you work for them) finds out that someone is defrauding and accepting money thru the system, you would shut down the account immediately.

If they break our terms of service - yes.

Does NATS terms of service say that they will disable clients who keep paying them but not their affiliates ?

In a perfect world we all would work together but at the end of the day a company has to draw a line at where they feel their responsibility ends.

Just Alex · 07-07-2011, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

If they break our terms of service - yes.

Does NATS terms of service say that they will disable clients who keep paying them but not their affiliates ?

In a perfect world we all would work together but at the end of the day a company has to draw a line at where they feel their responsibility ends.

So flat out fraud doesn't break their TOS? Excuse me while I scratch my head.
Who needs to shave affiliates when you can replace main site with 404 redirect and continue to operate. Brilliant.

Why · 07-07-2011, 05:27 PM

Im with Chris on this one, as much as it might suck, its not TMM/NATS' place to make such calls.

WarChild · 07-07-2011, 05:30 PM

NATS doesn't and can't be forced to interfere with the financial dealings of another company. TMM and an affiliate program have a contract. You and that affiliate program have a contract. NATS insisits with their licensees that they not use the NATS software to "shave" or deceive their affiliates. They don't, however, specify affiliate payouts. I know it seems like a subtle detail but it's important.

TMM can't afford to be involved with your contract with the affiliate program. Can you imagine the number of problems it would cause if affiliates could complain about payment issues to TMM and get affiliate programs shut down?

Think of a simpler example. You owe me $100 I lent you. I can't go to your boss and demand that money or demand that you be fired. That's between me and you only.

What you have here is a dispute with the affiliate program and not TMM. If they're violating their actual license, I am sure TMM will act. Your accounts receivable problems with the affiliate program should be addressed with the program its self. Failing a satisfactory resolution you have full access to the legal system.

Just Alex · 07-07-2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

NATS doesn't and can't be forced to interfere with the financial dealings of another company. TMM and an affiliate program have a contract. You and that affiliate program have a contract. NATS insisits with their licensees that they not use the NATS software to "shave" or deceive their affiliates. They don't, however, specify affiliate payouts. I know it seems like a subtle detail but it's important.

TMM can't afford to be involved with your contract with the affiliate program. Can you imagine the number of problems it would cause if affiliates could complain about payment issues to TMM and get affiliate programs shut down?

Think of a simpler example. You owe me $100 I lent you. I can't go to your boss and demand that money or demand that you be fired. That's between me and you only.

What you have here is a dispute with the affiliate program and not TMM. If they're violating their actual license, I am sure TMM will act. Your accounts receivable problems with the affiliate program should be addressed with the program its self. Failing a satisfactory resolution you have full access to the legal system.

Account receivable? Its account payable that's having problems.
"not use the NATS software to "shave" or deceive their affiliates"
Ok, you send them joins and get dick in return. Thats not deceiving enough for you?
Same accounts payable that NATS include in their script, same accounts payable that supposed to PAY my account receivables. If you want to get technical here.
So you can operate every other part of leased script and forget about one tiny module - The payouts. Sweeeet.

Lets say you lease a car for new business and say its a pizza delivery car. Instead you start making runs to Mexico and transport few beaners and couple pounds of grass with it. How's that going to fly with the bank?

icymelon · 07-07-2011, 05:48 PM

are you kidding?

signupdamnit · 07-07-2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Should they refuse a clients money because they decide not to pay affiliates?

Yes they should. Closing down the program and suspending the license is one thing but renewing the license or allowing additional licenses is another. I realize legally they may or may not be obligated to do this and I also realize there needs to be a line drawn at some point where they will get involved but I consider it to be unethical to knowingly help companies defraud affiliates. In some extreme cases and jurisdictions it might also be possible for them to face legal actions as well depending on the exact circumstances involved.

Chris · 07-07-2011, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

Yes they should. Closing down the program and suspending the license is one thing but renewing the license or allowing additional licenses is another. I realize legally they may or may not be obligated to do this and I also realize there needs to be a line drawn at some point where they will get involved but I consider it to be unethical to knowingly help companies defraud affiliates. In some extreme cases and jurisdictions it might also be possible for them to face legal actions as well depending on the exact circumstances involved.

its such a grey area and every company has to decide how they want to handle it

WarChild · 07-07-2011, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Just Alex

Account receivable? Its account payable that's having problems.
"not use the NATS software to "shave" or deceive their affiliates"
Ok, you send them joins and get dick in return. Thats not deceiving enough for you?
Same accounts payable that NATS include in their script, same accounts payable that supposed to PAY my account receivables. If you want to get technical here.
So you can operate every other part of leased script and forget about one tiny module - The payouts. Sweeeet.

Lets say you lease a car for new business and say its a pizza delivery car. Instead you start making runs to Mexico and transport few beaners and couple pounds of grass with it. How's that going to fly with the bank?

I'm not surprised you didn't understand. I shouldn't have bothered trying to explain it to you.

Just Alex · 07-07-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

I'm not surprised you didn't understand. I shouldn't have bothered trying to explain it to you.

I shouldn't have wasted my time answering your " accounts receivable problems" idiocy and just add you to ignore list right away. Glitch has been fixed. Bye.

Just Alex · 07-07-2011, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

its such a grey area and every company has to decide how they want to handle it

Now that's a little more sense than "accounts receivable problem" crap or your original evaluation of how leased set of tools can be used for everything else BUT paying affiliates. After all its just an affiliate program script. Who said that affiliate program is required to pay its affiliates? That's just crazy.

$tandaman · 07-07-2011, 06:26 PM

Alex, did the terms state that they can terminate affiliates at any time for any reason without pay? if they did, and you agreed, then i don't think nats can do anything

signupdamnit · 07-07-2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $tandaman

Alex, did the terms state that they can terminate affiliates at any time for any reason without pay? if they did, and you agreed, then i don't think nats can do anything

People have stated that they were told "the check is in the mail" several times. In many jurisdictions even with that clause in the affiliate agreement such statements could easily be considered fraud since that is basically a "promise to pay" and there was no declaration of intent to "end the affiliate agreement per the terms". Locally I have seen business owners get charges against them for far less. A crooked affiliate agreement will not save you if someone decides to go after you and especially if they convince a law enforcement agency that the matter is not merely civil but a criminal matter. but IANAL, blah blah

Just Alex · 07-07-2011, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by $tandaman

Alex, did the terms state that they can terminate affiliates at any time for any reason without pay? if they did, and you agreed, then i don't think nats can do anything

You people are serious? Terminate affiliates? Thats what you call fraud these days? Do some search on these gus. Did they have TOS to terminate their models as well without paying them? Oh, im sorry, shaving is when program alters the amount of sales and under-reports them. Entirely different from program displays blank page or zeroes across the board. Thats not shaving. No-no-no Its account receivables problems.

07-07-2011, 04:59 PM	#1
Just Alex Liv Benson to You, Bitch Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Maryland and WV Posts: 6,060	Question to NATS guys about programs that are gone but still use your script. Looks like http://www.adultstarprofits.com are long gone. Their main site redirects to god know where but they still use NATS as if nothing ever happened. These guys obviously aren't paying affiliates nor their models (use search here), yet they continue to operate with your help. Example: http://mytattoogirls.com/tour3/ Whats up with that? __________________

07-07-2011, 05:01 PM	#2
Chris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: icq: 71462500 Skype: Jupzchris Posts: 27,880	At the end of the day it is not NATS job to make sure a company pays you. Should they refuse a clients money because they decide not to pay affiliates? NATS is not the internet police __________________ [email protected]

07-07-2011, 05:30 PM	#9
WarChild Let slip the dogs of war. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bermuda Posts: 17,263	NATS doesn't and can't be forced to interfere with the financial dealings of another company. TMM and an affiliate program have a contract. You and that affiliate program have a contract. NATS insisits with their licensees that they not use the NATS software to "shave" or deceive their affiliates. They don't, however, specify affiliate payouts. I know it seems like a subtle detail but it's important. TMM can't afford to be involved with your contract with the affiliate program. Can you imagine the number of problems it would cause if affiliates could complain about payment issues to TMM and get affiliate programs shut down? Think of a simpler example. You owe me $100 I lent you. I can't go to your boss and demand that money or demand that you be fired. That's between me and you only. What you have here is a dispute with the affiliate program and not TMM. If they're violating their actual license, I am sure TMM will act. Your accounts receivable problems with the affiliate program should be addressed with the program its self. Failing a satisfactory resolution you have full access to the legal system. __________________ .

07-07-2011, 05:48 PM	#11
icymelon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 3,220	are you kidding? __________________ Network Of Adult Blogs With Hardlink Rentals Available

07-07-2011, 06:26 PM	#17
$tandaman Pimping 8EZ Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: New Jersey Posts: 3,528	Alex, did the terms state that they can terminate affiliates at any time for any reason without pay? if they did, and you agreed, then i don't think nats can do anything __________________ CentroProfits.com - Make money with 3000+ Models! ModelCentro.com - Multiple award winning hosted CMS designed to run solo model sites, with affiliate program built in. Launch your model site in 24 hrs or less! FanCentro.com - Premium social network for SWs & Fans!

07-07-2011, 05:27 PM	#8
Why MFBA Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: PNW Posts: 7,230	Im with Chris on this one, as much as it might suck, its not TMM/NATS' place to make such calls.