If you brabd/take out a gun...then you have to use it? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

MrMaxwell · 07-09-2011, 11:24 AM

I think that he we pretty stupid to oblige their request to step outside and I don't see why he would put himself back into harms way after he was in his vehicle... He definitely did the right thing not firing his weapon when they retreated

potter · 07-09-2011, 12:50 PM

He should be arrested for brandishing the weapon.

You don't pull out a gun unless you are going to shoot. It's like rule #1 with guns, and if he's taken any training / safety courses then he should have known that. He should simply know that since he is a gun owner and is carrying it in public. Oh, and what the hell was he doing with a gun in a bar? I can only assume he hadn't been drinking right? Because otherwise he was breaking the law (a second time).

I dunno, seems like your friend is stupid and or is going to get himself killed. You know the issue with pulling out a gun to deescalate a situation? It doesn't deescalate it, it only escalates it and second it will get you killed. If anyone every pulled out a gun and someone else had theirs on them, they'd be dead if they didn't pull the trigger. Someone pulls out a gun it instantly means the opposition's life is in danger, end of story. Your friend is an idiot.

I carry every day and I'd never pull it out unless it was to use it, and the situation was to the point my life was in danger and someone needed to die for me to live.

Guns are for protection of your life, not scaring people...

moeloubani · 07-09-2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

He should be arrested for brandishing the weapon.

You don't pull out a gun unless you are going to shoot. It's like rule #1 with guns, and if he's taken any training / safety courses then he should have known that. He should simply know that since he is a gun owner and is carrying it in public. Oh, and what the hell was he doing with a gun in a bar? I can only assume he hadn't been drinking right? Because otherwise he was breaking the law (a second time).

I dunno, seems like your friend is stupid and or is going to get himself killed. You know the issue with pulling out a gun to deescalate a situation? It doesn't deescalate it, it only escalates it and second it will get you killed. If anyone every pulled out a gun and someone else had theirs on them, they'd be dead if they didn't pull the trigger. Someone pulls out a gun it instantly means the opposition's life is in danger, end of story. Your friend is an idiot.

I carry every day and I'd never pull it out unless it was to use it, and the situation was to the point my life was in danger and someone needed to die for me to live.

Guns are for protection of your life, not scaring people...

So you would only use a gun to kill someone, not anything else? You wouldn't use it as a deterrent? If you pull a gun on someone and that guy starts to run away and you shoot them that isn't self defence.

Grapesoda · 07-09-2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeadFidel

a friend of mine was at local bar when confronted with a drunk women who decided on her own that he was disrespectful to her. He forgot about it. 45 minutes later two large men ( her 2 sons) walk in bar and ask him to step outside. He does. the son punches him in the face, and asked.."What do you got..tough gay?"

Now there are 5 or so people outside the club..the mother shouting shit like "kick his ass"'

His truck was right there and he went inside a took of his 9MM....and pointed at the the dude.

Situation under control. He left.

He came back the next day to arrange a sit down, but was told...never brandish unless you are going to us it and held strong to the theory.

No option right? Reason is because I am going to try and debate this with a friend.

if he had the opportunity to go to his truck he should have left

Grapesoda · 07-09-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

I've pulled out my weapon twice without having to fire it. If it de escalates a situation, and you don't have to use it, it did it's job.

Having a gun is more important as a deterrent, imho. But be always prepared to use it. If they still attacked, then by all means discharge it.

needed mine ready 3 separate times, however I didn't pull the gun out... I was able to back the situation down yet I was very, VERY, ready to defend myself.

porno jew · 07-09-2011, 01:38 PM

he fucked up. he should have shot them all then planted the gun in the mom's hand.

B.Barnato · 07-09-2011, 01:56 PM

lolamerica

CYF · 07-09-2011, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

He should be arrested for brandishing the weapon.

THIS.

He had the opportunity to go to his vehicle. He could have, and should have left. His life was not in danger. Pulling the weapon turns him into the aggressor... unless they were chasing him and he barely had time to get it out to make them back off, which doesn't sound like the case here.

potter · 07-09-2011, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moeloubani

So you would only use a gun to kill someone, not anything else? You wouldn't use it as a deterrent? If you pull a gun on someone and that guy starts to run away and you shoot them that isn't self defence.

Yes, a gun is only used to kill. It is NOT a "scare tactic". Anyone using a gun to scare people is wrong and probably should have their weapons taken from them because they are a danger to themselves and the public.

Bill8 · 07-09-2011, 02:56 PM

You guys know what they teach in gun-handling, self-defense, police and military gun training, right?

Don't point the barrel of the gun towards a person unless you are going to shoot, is the rule.

Now, that's an idealized rule, but it is still the rule I was taught, and you will find that rule everywhere.

That means, if you are going to ready a pistol for self defense, you hold it in the down or up position, until you decide to fire. Then you instantly extend the piostol into your chosen firing position. At that point you can still decide not to fire, but you should not extend into firing position until you have already decided you are ready to shoot.

So, it depends a bit on what you mean by brandish. Holding the gun in an up or down position, but visible, is proper technique, and is showing the gun to prevent attack.

Now, nobody expects the typical american gun owner to be properly trained. But it sounds like whoever was telling the guy "don't point" was training in one of the classic schools.

Waving the gun around like a gangster or a fake cop on tv with a plastic gun, is incorrect technique.

marketsmart · 07-09-2011, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

Yes, a gun is only used to kill. It is NOT a "scare tactic". Anyone using a gun to scare people is wrong and probably should have their weapons taken from them because they are a danger to themselves and the public.

6 motnhs ago i had to pull my gun on a mentally ill homeless guy that threw rocks at my dogs and then me..

he approached me with a brick in his hand and i drew down on him.. i told him to stop or i would kill him.. he took a couple more steps towards me then stopped and turned around, called me a faggot

, and walked away..

he was one more step away from getting killed. i could have killed him and was within my right. i called the cops and they showed up quickly and arrested the guy a few blocks away. the cops told me that they had several problems with him in the past..

they also told me i would have been within my right to use deadly force..

i am glad i did not have to shoot the guy, but i was prepared to..

so, i dont think you only pull a gun to kill someone.. sometimes pulling a gun and being prepared to use it is enough to diffuse an extreme situation..

.

LAJ · 07-09-2011, 03:09 PM

This whole situation reeks to me. The trash causing all the problems isn't worth a shit to me. Clearly those people have little to nothing to lose... so right there IMO it's an unfair advantage on their part. Certainly not even close to running the risk of getting assaulted, arrested, or worse.

Violence should never be used or threatened unless it is absolutely necessary for self defense. The guy had time to go to his car... so there was no need for self defense at that point. Should have just left.

The guy made several mistakes. Whether he "disrespected" that woman or not... she drunk, clearly a violent bitch... you either stay the hell away from her, or apologize quickly to get her off your back and then leave. You tell a bouncer if you feel threatened. What you don't do is agree to step outside with her thug sons. Why even engage those idiots? If you are willing to "step outside" then you better be prepared to throw a punch back.

How the hell would the guy know that if he went to his car to get a gun... that one of these other morons doesn't pull out a gun himself? Or worse, one of his buddies standing 20 yards away and behind him sees everything going down and pulls out a gun? Then you are fucked.

And over WHAT? This situation is just fuckin stupid. Leave with your face and livelihood intact and don't bother returning.

MrMaxwell · 07-09-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

Yes, a gun is only used to kill. It is NOT a "scare tactic". Anyone using a gun to scare people is wrong and probably should have their weapons taken from them because they are a danger to themselves and the public.

I'm sorry, but that is nonsense. I am alive today because my weapons have acted as deterrents. If you're saying that I should have shot people when it wasn't necessary, you couldn't be more wrong. I stand by what I said - don't pull what you won't use - but if you pull and they flee, put it away and leave the situation.

L-Pink · 07-09-2011, 07:01 PM

Twice I have held men at gunpoint (business related breakins) until the police arrived. Silly me I should have just shot them instead.

.

AaronM · 07-09-2011, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by potter

He should be arrested for brandishing the weapon.

You don't pull out a gun unless you are going to shoot. It's like rule #1 with guns, and if he's taken any training / safety courses then he should have known that. He should simply know that since he is a gun owner and is carrying it in public. Oh, and what the hell was he doing with a gun in a bar? I can only assume he hadn't been drinking right? Because otherwise he was breaking the law (a second time).

As a firearms trainer/instructor/range safety officer, I'd like to say that you don't know WTF you are talking about.

Everything you said in that paragraph is incorrect. I'm licensed to carry in 34 states and I carry every day of my life, in bars, out of bars....No difference in the primary states I carry in.

Like Anthony, I've had the need to pull my gun twice and did not shoot.

Obviously laws will differ from State to State. In Oregon, if a guy is brandishing a weapon and you pull yours then it's all good...BUT, if he then lowers his weapon, you are required by law to lowers yours, not shoot him. Either way, if you do shoot, you're most likely going to end up with a civil if not a criminal case and like Seth Manson said, I'm not trying to spend any time in jail or shell out money for attorneys if I can avoid it.

AaronM · 07-09-2011, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAJ

Or worse, one of his buddies standing 20 yards away and behind him sees everything going down and pulls out a gun? Then you are fucked.

At 20 yards...I would have the advantage. Most people can't hit shit at half that distance.

AaronM · 07-09-2011, 07:31 PM

BTW, Deej and I just got back from the range where we killed some paper bad guys.

Deej · 07-09-2011, 07:35 PM

I still have GSR ( thats gun shot residue for all you dumb mother fuckers) all over my hands so obviously I know everything about firearms and especially this incident. The guy was in the wrong and wanted to swang his non existent "manhood" around.

He got beat up so he decided to "show them" and wanted to get the upper hand. He should have left the situation and better yet, not fallen into the "lets go outside" bullshit in the first place.

Oh and AaronM knows a smidge about pee shooters too. I taught him everything he knows.

Photography too!!

Deej · 07-09-2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronM

BTW, Deej and I just got back from the range where we killed some paper bad guys.

Well you deifnitely killed yours.

I just winged mine a couple times and sentem home limpin...

AaronM · 07-09-2011, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deej

I still have GSR ( thats gun shot residue for all you dumb mother fuckers) all over my hands so obviously I know everything about firearms and especially this incident. The guy was in the wrong and wanted to swang his non existent "manhood" around.

He got beat up so he decided to "show them" and wanted to get the upper hand. He should have left the situation and better yet, not fallen into the "lets go outside" bullshit in the first place.

Oh and AaronM knows a smidge about pee shooters too. I taught him everything he knows.

Photography too!!

LOL

You and your GSR have jokes.

Go wash your dirty hands and lets grab some sushi.

porno jew · 07-09-2011, 09:02 PM

Scott Gaulke
Casey if you read this please message me! I want to marry you!

porno jew · 07-09-2011, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deej

I still have GSR ( thats gun shot residue for all you dumb mother fuckers) all over my hands so obviously I know everything about firearms and especially this incident. The guy was in the wrong and wanted to swang his non existent "manhood" around.

He got beat up so he decided to "show them" and wanted to get the upper hand. He should have left the situation and better yet, not fallen into the "lets go outside" bullshit in the first place.

Oh and AaronM knows a smidge about pee shooters too. I taught him everything he knows.

Photography too!!

you summed it up my mexican friend.

07-09-2011, 12:50 PM	#52
potter Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Denver Posts: 6,559	He should be arrested for brandishing the weapon. You don't pull out a gun unless you are going to shoot. It's like rule #1 with guns, and if he's taken any training / safety courses then he should have known that. He should simply know that since he is a gun owner and is carrying it in public. Oh, and what the hell was he doing with a gun in a bar? I can only assume he hadn't been drinking right? Because otherwise he was breaking the law (a second time). I dunno, seems like your friend is stupid and or is going to get himself killed. You know the issue with pulling out a gun to deescalate a situation? It doesn't deescalate it, it only escalates it and second it will get you killed. If anyone every pulled out a gun and someone else had theirs on them, they'd be dead if they didn't pull the trigger. Someone pulls out a gun it instantly means the opposition's life is in danger, end of story. Your friend is an idiot. I carry every day and I'd never pull it out unless it was to use it, and the situation was to the point my life was in danger and someone needed to die for me to live. Guns are for protection of your life, not scaring people... __________________

07-09-2011, 02:56 PM	#60
Bill8 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,901	You guys know what they teach in gun-handling, self-defense, police and military gun training, right? Don't point the barrel of the gun towards a person unless you are going to shoot, is the rule. Now, that's an idealized rule, but it is still the rule I was taught, and you will find that rule everywhere. That means, if you are going to ready a pistol for self defense, you hold it in the down or up position, until you decide to fire. Then you instantly extend the piostol into your chosen firing position. At that point you can still decide not to fire, but you should not extend into firing position until you have already decided you are ready to shoot. So, it depends a bit on what you mean by brandish. Holding the gun in an up or down position, but visible, is proper technique, and is showing the gun to prevent attack. Now, nobody expects the typical american gun owner to be properly trained. But it sounds like whoever was telling the guy "don't point" was training in one of the classic schools. Waving the gun around like a gangster or a fake cop on tv with a plastic gun, is incorrect technique. Last edited by Bill8; 07-09-2011 at 02:59 PM..

07-09-2011, 03:09 PM	#62
LAJ Gingerific Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Austin Posts: 5,567	This whole situation reeks to me. The trash causing all the problems isn't worth a shit to me. Clearly those people have little to nothing to lose... so right there IMO it's an unfair advantage on their part. Certainly not even close to running the risk of getting assaulted, arrested, or worse. Violence should never be used or threatened unless it is absolutely necessary for self defense. The guy had time to go to his car... so there was no need for self defense at that point. Should have just left. The guy made several mistakes. Whether he "disrespected" that woman or not... she drunk, clearly a violent bitch... you either stay the hell away from her, or apologize quickly to get her off your back and then leave. You tell a bouncer if you feel threatened. What you don't do is agree to step outside with her thug sons. Why even engage those idiots? If you are willing to "step outside" then you better be prepared to throw a punch back. How the hell would the guy know that if he went to his car to get a gun... that one of these other morons doesn't pull out a gun himself? Or worse, one of his buddies standing 20 yards away and behind him sees everything going down and pulls out a gun? Then you are fucked. And over WHAT? This situation is just fuckin stupid. Leave with your face and livelihood intact and don't bother returning. __________________ YNOT.com - The original industry resource email jay at ynot dot com or skype LAJConsulting

07-09-2011, 07:35 PM	#68
Deej I make pixels work Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: I live here... Posts: 24,386	I still have GSR ( thats gun shot residue for all you dumb mother fuckers) all over my hands so obviously I know everything about firearms and especially this incident. The guy was in the wrong and wanted to swang his non existent "manhood" around. He got beat up so he decided to "show them" and wanted to get the upper hand. He should have left the situation and better yet, not fallen into the "lets go outside" bullshit in the first place. Oh and AaronM knows a smidge about pee shooters too. I taught him everything he knows. Photography too!! __________________ Deej's Designs n' What Not Hit me up for Design, CSS & Photo Retouching Icq#30096880

07-09-2011, 11:24 AM	#51
MrMaxwell Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 10,057	I think that he we pretty stupid to oblige their request to step outside and I don't see why he would put himself back into harms way after he was in his vehicle... He definitely did the right thing not firing his weapon when they retreated

07-09-2011, 01:38 PM	#56
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	he fucked up. he should have shot them all then planted the gun in the mom's hand.

07-09-2011, 01:56 PM	#57
B.Barnato So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,618	lolamerica

07-09-2011, 07:01 PM	#64
L-Pink working on my tan Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida/Kentucky Posts: 39,151	Twice I have held men at gunpoint (business related breakins) until the police arrived. Silly me I should have just shot them instead. .

07-09-2011, 07:31 PM	#67
AaronM Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: ┌∩┐ ◣_◢ ┌∩┐ Posts: 46,909	BTW, Deej and I just got back from the range where we killed some paper bad guys.

07-09-2011, 09:02 PM	#71
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	Scott Gaulke Casey if you read this please message me! I want to marry you!