Republicans got what they wanted, Market plunges..

[nickey1952]

Stupid Republicans with all there deals and leave big business alone got their debt deal thru and now the market plunges. Way to go, it might be 2024 before they see a president. Tea Party goes right along with them... Way to go assholes...

[IllTestYourGirls]

You are greatly misinformed.

[Houdini]

Republicans didn't want tax increases. Do you think that's what caused the market to go down? lol Why in the world would the market be up, when we're about to have our debt rating cut, our GDP is plummeting, our PMI numbers are down, our unemployment is going up, and now we have more debt? The debt ceiling was a minor distraction. Now, everything else is starting to get baked in.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

You are greatly misinformed.

Impressively so....





One might do well to broaden one's sources of information. You do realize, don't you, that this doesn't even reduce government spending? It reduces the INCREASES IN spending only, and not by much. The debt plan that passed is a winner for both parties and a total loser for the country. It will raise our debt to $24 Trillion in 10 years - hardly a solution when each American as of today already owes $48K of existing debt and $250k of unfunded debt (SS, Medicare, that the federal government stole from and are left mostly with IOU's).



.



.

[marketsmart]

.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Impressively so....





One might do well to broaden one's sources of information. You do realize, don't you, that this doesn't even reduce government spending? It reduces the INCREASES IN spending only, and not by much. The debt plan that passed is a winner for both parties and a total loser for the country. It will raise our debt to $24 Trillion in 10 years - hardly a solution when each American as of today already owes $48K of existing debt and $250k of unfunded debt (SS, Medicare, that the federal government stole from and are left mostly with IOU's).



.



.

step away from the talking points lol
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug...ltzik-20100808
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/assets.html

[nickey1952]

If your a Republican and make a living in adult your greatly misinformed. If your not in adult keep your mouth shut..

[dyna mo]

verbatim what the gop wants:

America Must Change Direction!

The best way you can help win the fight for America?s future is by supporting the one organization that is doing more than any other conservative group to elect GOP candidates at all levels of government and make Barack Obama a one-term president: The Republican National Committee (RNC).

The only way we can turn our nation around and get America on a sustainable path to economic growth and prosperity is to expand our GOP majority in the U.S. House, recapture the U.S. Senate and elect a Republican president in 2012.

https://www.gop.com

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by nickey1952

If your a Republican and make a living in adult your greatly misinformed. If your not in adult keep your mouth shut..

I am not a republican, I am in adult, and you are still greatly misinformed.

[meanguy7]

Originally Posted by nickey1952

If your a Republican and make a living in adult your greatly misinformed. If your not in adult keep your mouth shut..

What the fuck does your political party have to do with your line of work?

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by meanguy7

What the fuck does your political party have to do with your line of work?

because most of the republicans run gay/shemale sites and gays can't be trusted...








.

[mountainmiester]

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

Friday, the 29th I pulled all my stocks that I could, and told this forum the market was going to drop. since then the market dropped -391 and gold has shot up and additional +$32 an ounce. Tomorrow the market is going to be brutal.

My broker suggested something along the same lines a couple months back saying the 3rd and 4th quarters where going to be a blood bath that wont settle until after the election.

However, this slide has been going on for a bit and the increase in the market by large part was from a bubble created again, by the fed.

The enemy isn't the Dems or Reps (though they all suck) it's the Fed.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by tony286

step away from the talking points lol
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug...ltzik-20100808
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/assets.html

Dude, if you SERIOUSLY believe government accounting, then I don't know what to say...

Besides, wasn't it your guy, Obama, that said if we didn't get another trillion dollars in borrowing authorized, that SS and Medicaid checks would stop this week???


I wish folks on the left would make up their mind. Either we had to raise more money today or the government would stop paying SS, Medicare, and bond interest payments as of Midnight... Or everything is fine and those programs are fully funded.




.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by nickey1952

If your a Republican and make a living in adult your greatly misinformed. If your not in adult keep your mouth shut..

I'm not a republican, I'm a libertarian. As far as I'm concerned, at this point both other parties are pretty much asshats...


.

[Phoenix]

why dont they bring home say half the troops stationed around the globe, and cut the mega military spending...problem over.
put the soldiers coming home to work building better infrastructure...greener and better

[nickey1952]

They also make it illegal to shoot porn and make it go underground,, that is the Tea Party that wants these changes... Ask Bachman or Sarah Palin, that is the best they can do is to make two clowns their spokespeople. Bet $100 Obama wins in 2012... He is still cleaning up the mess of Bush .

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

I'm not a republican, I'm a libertarian. As far as I'm concerned, at this point both other parties are pretty much asshats...


.

isn't that just something you say to hide behind? because you almost never seem to express and views that would be libertarian. anyways, the markets are purposely manipulated when an election draws near. its so obvious and the sheep scurry like chickens with no heads and bad decisions are made.

[Paul Markham]

I posted this today.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

This applies to the UK, but it's interesting reading. http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16041913

And all they want to cut is £35bn ($56bn) now think in terms of a trillion dollars. No need for a calculator, it's 28.571428 times larger. $68,568.

If you think the poor, old, infirm, etc can repay that. You're fooling yourself.

And the effect will roll down to everyone. Even people here.

The US has a mountain to climb without ropes. To get out of the mess left by Bush and continued by Obama there needs to measures on 3 fronts.

Cuts in Government spending, not just the poor and infirm, but all the schemes and people employed by Government. It cost less to have someone on benefits, than in a non profitable job. Like shuffling paper. Or stationed overseas.

Taxes, they will have to rise. No if ands or buts. The Bush tax cuts didn't do a lot to stimulate the economy. If they had, the US would be in better shape.

Production and export, the US imports too much. It needs to produce more goods for home consumption and export.

The size of the US economy. Is the same as the debt.

And in 10 years if everything goes to plan, it will have been cut by $1 trillion, leaving only $13.5 trillion to go. At that rate, maybe it will be gone by 2160.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Dow Indu
11866.62
-265.87 -2.19%

9999?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Dude, if you SERIOUSLY believe government accounting, then I don't know what to say...

Besides, wasn't it your guy, Obama, that said if we didn't get another trillion dollars in borrowing authorized, that SS and Medicaid checks would stop this week???


I wish folks on the left would make up their mind. Either we had to raise more money today or the government would stop paying SS, Medicare, and bond interest payments as of Midnight... Or everything is fine and those programs are fully funded.




.

you havent been reading me my friend, Obama isnt my guy. And if everything that doesnt come from a source you agree with is questionable to you. Then you dont want truth you want to hear what you like.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

I'm not a republican, I'm a libertarian. As far as I'm concerned, at this point both other parties are pretty much asshats...


.

its funny now they are all libertarians. during bush they were all very quite. You know I like and respect you alot but thats too funny.

[BFT3K]

Republicans got what they wanted, Mikey plunges...

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Besides, wasn't it your guy, Obama, that said if we didn't get another trillion dollars in borrowing authorized, that SS and Medicaid checks would stop this week???


.

No, it wasn`t Obama .... It was the TeaPublicans saying that he said that , just like you are doing ...

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by tony286

its funny now they are all libertarians. during bush they were all very quite. You know I like and respect you alot but thats too funny.

There are NO republicans on this board ... just Libertarions and lubirals ....

Just like Judas ....

[Coup]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Dude, if you SERIOUSLY believe government accounting, then I don't know what to say...

Maybe there is no debt.

everything is a possibility in LOLbertarian land!

[tony286]

them republicans are genius : will loose a billion because they want a 16 million dollar cut. yeah sure paying down our debt is important to them. lol


Cost of FAA shutdown could exceed $1 billion

By JOAN LOWY

MORE FROM BUSINESSWEEK

China Non-Manufacturing Industries Grew in July, Surveys Show
Tepco Disaster Propels Sales of Commercial Paper: Japan Credit
Stocks Rising 12% Before Elections Celebrate Budget Impasse
Asia Stocks Rise, Led by Banks, as U.S. Leaders Strike Debt Deal
Nikkei 225 Rises Most in Month as U.S. Leaders Strike Debt Deal
STORY TOOLS

order a reprintdigg thissave to del.icio.us
WASHINGTON

The congressional standoff that has shut down the Federal Aviation Administration continues, with no end in sight until September if the Senate doesn't act this week.

Lawmakers risk losing more than $1 billion in revenue from ticket taxes that the airline collects. The authority to collect those taxes has expired. House Republicans say the sticking point is their demand that the Senate cut $16.5 million from a $200 million budget for rural air service subsidies.

The shutdown is less than two weeks old and already the government has lost more than $250 million in revenue.

The House has left for its August recess. The Senate is expected to follow this week. Lost revenue from uncollected airline ticket taxes could exceed $1.2 billion before lawmakers return to work in September.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

isn't that just something you say to hide behind? because you almost never seem to express and views that would be libertarian. .

Well, I guess you haven't caught all my posts. I'm for legalization of pretty much everything, drug, prostitution, gambling, gay marriage, etc.... that an adult wishes to do of their own free will. (9th amendment) I believe in freedom of people to trade, and do business, without the government interfering. I believe that the larger a federal government grows, that the more corrupt, and the less representative, it becomes, and therefore power should be held more by state, and local governments, (10th amendment). I think that the Feds should stick to protecting the borders, and not much else, etc, etc, etc....

I had a TON of issues with the last administration. For the most part, I have found the views of the Republican party to be closer to mine, than the Democrats, but once they finally took control of the house and senate in the early 90s, (for the first time since WWII), they were only good for about 3 or 4 years, then they started spending and growing government as much as the Dems had been doing.


Ask me my views on any issue, I think you will find they are pretty much all libertarian. I can't claim to be PURELY a "textbook" Libertarian, but then who is "purely" anything?





.

.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by tony286

them republicans are genius : will loose a billion because they want a 16 million dollar cut. yeah sure paying down our debt is important to them. lol


Cost of FAA shutdown could exceed $1 billion

By JOAN LOWY

MORE FROM BUSINESSWEEK

China Non-Manufacturing Industries Grew in July, Surveys Show
Tepco Disaster Propels Sales of Commercial Paper: Japan Credit
Stocks Rising 12% Before Elections Celebrate Budget Impasse
Asia Stocks Rise, Led by Banks, as U.S. Leaders Strike Debt Deal
Nikkei 225 Rises Most in Month as U.S. Leaders Strike Debt Deal
STORY TOOLS

order a reprintdigg thissave to del.icio.us
WASHINGTON

The congressional standoff that has shut down the Federal Aviation Administration continues, with no end in sight until September if the Senate doesn't act this week.

Lawmakers risk losing more than $1 billion in revenue from ticket taxes that the airline collects. The authority to collect those taxes has expired. House Republicans say the sticking point is their demand that the Senate cut $16.5 million from a $200 million budget for rural air service subsidies.

The shutdown is less than two weeks old and already the government has lost more than $250 million in revenue.

The House has left for its August recess. The Senate is expected to follow this week. Lost revenue from uncollected airline ticket taxes could exceed $1.2 billion before lawmakers return to work in September.

yay government! they deserve a 5 week recess. 75,000 jobs gone. enjoy your holiday politicians!!! good work. high 5

[stinkyfingers]

[Ronzo]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

No, it wasn`t Obama .... It was the TeaPublicans saying that he said that , just like you are doing ...

No, it was Obama... in 2 different TV interviews and 1 news conference. And, Obama's Treasury Secretary, Geithner, echoed his remarks on his TV appearances. Scare tactics and bluffs are an Obama administration tactic.

When the "TeaPublicans" talked about these issues, it was also during TV interviews where they attempted to bust Obama on his irresponsible "let's scare Granny" strategy.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

No, it was Obama... in 2 different TV interviews and 1 news conference. And, Obama's Treasury Secretary, Geithner, echoed his remarks on his TV appearances. Scare tactics and bluffs are an Obama administration tactic.

When the "TeaPublicans" talked about these issues, it was also during TV interviews where they attempted to bust Obama on his irresponsible "let's scare Granny" strategy.

Must be right ... as your links to actual articles or clips is overwhelming ...

[Robbie]

I don't know one guy (including me) who owns his own business who really gave a shit about the arguments and deals that Congress fought over. We all look at the bottom line: Are people BUYING.

If not for CNN and Fox News "reporting" on this 24 hours a day then millions of rednecks living in trailer parks who could give two shits about the federal govt. (except to get their "welfare" checks in whatever form) wouldn't even KNOW anything about a "debt ceiling". And they would be at Walmart buying stupid shit everyday.

Arguments in Washington are usually only "important" to the self absorbed politicians and media.

The stock market rises and falls mostly on speculation and "confidence" and "fear".

And again...when you have the 24 hour "news" organizations and govt. fearmongering...what did they expect to happen.

All I can say is...I voted for Obama. He has been a huge disappointment. And now he shows that he doesn't grasp how to play the "game" and keep the market kicking ass.

It ain't that hard. Hell Ronald Reagan saw Jimmy Carter make the mistake of being depressing. And then he simply was "cheerful" and no matter what happened he just kept saying how "great" America was...and I'll be damned if it didn't inspire confidence.

Obama sitting back and acting helpless and letting Reid and Pelosi run the Democratic Party and the country is causing business and the market to be unstable. Period.

They don't know what's coming next. Will their taxes be raised? Expect MORE unemployment. Are they going to have to pay for every employees health insurance in a couple of years? Expect MORE unemployment.

Uncertainty is what's killing the market.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I don't know one guy (including me) who owns his own business who really gave a shit about the arguments and deals that Congress fought over. We all look at the bottom line: Are people BUYING.

If not for CNN and Fox News "reporting" on this 24 hours a day then millions of rednecks living in trailer parks who could give two shits about the federal govt. (except to get their "welfare" checks in whatever form) wouldn't even KNOW anything about a "debt ceiling". And they would be at Walmart buying stupid shit everyday.

Arguments in Washington are usually only "important" to the self absorbed politicians and media.

The stock market rises and falls mostly on speculation and "confidence" and "fear".

And again...when you have the 24 hour "news" organizations and govt. fearmongering...what did they expect to happen.

All I can say is...I voted for Obama. He has been a huge disappointment. And now he shows that he doesn't grasp how to play the "game" and keep the market kicking ass.

It ain't that hard. Hell Ronald Reagan saw Jimmy Carter make the mistake of being depressing. And then he simply was "cheerful" and no matter what happened he just kept saying how "great" America was...and I'll be damned if it didn't inspire confidence.

Obama sitting back and acting helpless and letting Reid and Pelosi run the Democratic Party and the country is causing business and the market to be unstable. Period.

They don't know what's coming next. Will their taxes be raised? Expect MORE unemployment. Are they going to have to pay for every employees health insurance in a couple of years? Expect MORE unemployment.

Uncertainty is what's killing the market.

+1

(except for the "voting for Obama" part....)



.

[Barry-xlovecam]

No, lack of consumer demand is why they are not buying.

Consumers are not spending money on non essential goods and/or services if they are insecure in their future employment and/or personal assets and wealth.

The current depressed housing values make low cost refinancing difficult or impossible for many people. The ::false:: prosperity of the last decade was made by the ability to tap home equity for consumer spending. e.g., re-mortgage your home to buy a automobile :P

Well, the house of cards has fallen ...

People must earn today what they need to spend. The vast majority do this by toiling for a wage.

You cannot afford porn if the best you can do is a shit job at McDonalds or Walmart.

We have out sourced many medium level service and technical jobs as well as those requiring lower-skilled assembly labor.

No decent job, no disposable income to buy porn so they flap for free to tubes ...

So let's cut spending some more, Screw stimulating the economy and legislating tax advantages that spur employment. Save the tax cuts ? when you cannot make shit you need all the tax savings that you can get.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

The current depressed housing values make low cost refinancing difficult or impossible for many people. The ::false:: prosperity of the last decade was made by the ability to tap home equity for consumer spending. e.g., re-mortgage your home to buy a automobile :P

I personally never knew anyone who got a second mortgage on their home for a car. Or for anything else EXCEPT home improvement. I had a buddy who did one to get his hands on a quick 30 grand to build a swimming pool. He borrowed on his home for that.

But I didn't know anyone that just took out a loan on their home to go get a car. I'm sure that a lot of folks did do the home improvement loans though. That's a very reasonable thing to do. Borrow against your own equity to improve the property and raise the value of it.

Unfortunately...if you borrowed that money in 2007 or early 2008 right before the free-fall...you got destroyed.

[seeandsee]

ron paul can save the world!

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Must be right ... as your links to actual articles or clips is overwhelming ...

says the guy that offers noithing but a happy face

Originally Posted by Robbie

I don't know one guy (including me) who owns his own business who really gave a shit about the arguments and deals that Congress fought over. We all look at the bottom line: Are people BUYING.

If not for CNN and Fox News "reporting" on this 24 hours a day then millions of rednecks living in trailer parks who could give two shits about the federal govt. (except to get their "welfare" checks in whatever form) wouldn't even KNOW anything about a "debt ceiling". And they would be at Walmart buying stupid shit everyday.

Arguments in Washington are usually only "important" to the self absorbed politicians and media.

The stock market rises and falls mostly on speculation and "confidence" and "fear".

And again...when you have the 24 hour "news" organizations and govt. fearmongering...what did they expect to happen.

All I can say is...I voted for Obama. He has been a huge disappointment. And now he shows that he doesn't grasp how to play the "game" and keep the market kicking ass.

It ain't that hard. Hell Ronald Reagan saw Jimmy Carter make the mistake of being depressing. And then he simply was "cheerful" and no matter what happened he just kept saying how "great" America was...and I'll be damned if it didn't inspire confidence.

Obama sitting back and acting helpless and letting Reid and Pelosi run the Democratic Party and the country is causing business and the market to be unstable. Period.

They don't know what's coming next. Will their taxes be raised? Expect MORE unemployment. Are they going to have to pay for every employees health insurance in a couple of years? Expect MORE unemployment.

Uncertainty is what's killing the market.

Which boils down to he's a bad leader.
Promises the world, delivers fluff and fan fare.
I read the supposed cuts they made, it's most all based on accounting on future hopeful gains in the economy and cutting the military by taking troops out of the middle east. These are not cuts.
Obama would have signed anything that kept the ceiling funded till after the 2012 elections, which he got and the GOP would have signed anything that at least showed they were cutting anything, which it really doesn't look like they did.
I'm pissed at the Tea Party candidates that voted for this and didn't stick to their campaign promises, fuck them, I know the Tea Party won't forget and will vote the bums out.
The country needs some serious cuts in it's spending, here's a list that needs to be looked at.

http://www.downsizinggovernment.org/...ed-budget-plan

Proposed Federal Budget Cuts
Agency and Activity Annual Savings
$ billion
Department of Agriculture
End farm subsidies 29.5
Cut food subsidies by 50 percent 52.7
End rural subsidies 4.2
Total cuts 86.4
Department of Commerce
End telecom subsidies 2.3
End economic development subsidies 0.6
Total cuts 2.9
Department of Defense
Enact Preble/Friedman reforms** 150.0
Department of Education
End K-12 education subsidies 52.7
End student aid and all other programs 33.1
Total cuts (terminate the department) 85.8
Department of Energy
End subsidies for energy efficiency 10.2
End subsidies for vehicle technologies 5.2
End the technology loan program 1.2
End electricity research subsidies 2.0
End fossil energy research 1.1
Privatize the power marketing administrations 0.5
End nuclear energy subsidies 0.6
Total cuts 20.8
Department of Health and Human Services
Block grant Medicaid and freeze spending** 226.0
Repeal 2010 health care law** 87.0
Increase Medicare premiums** 39.8
Cut non-Medicaid state/local grants by 50% 37.7
Cut Medicare payment error rate by 50% 28.6
Increase Medicare deductibles** 12.6
Tort reform 10.0
Total cuts 441.7
Department of Housing and Urban Development
End rental assistance 28.6
End community development subsidies 15.0
End public housing subsidies 8.9
End housing finance and all other programs 8.3
Total cuts (terminate the department) 60.8
Department of Justice
End state and local grants 5.0
Department of Labor
End employment and training services 4.8
End Job Corps 1.7
End Community Service for Seniors 0.8
End trade adjustment assistance 1.3
Total cuts 8.6
Social Security
Price index initial benefits** 41.1
Raise the normal retirement age** 31.4
Cut Social Security disability program by 10% 13.2
Total cuts 85.7
Department of Transportation
End urban transit grants (federal fund savings) 5.8
Privatize air traffic control (federal fund savings) 5.8
Privatize Amtrak and end rail subsidies 2.9
Total cuts 14.5
Department of the Treasury
Cut earned income tax credit by 50% 22.5
End refundable part of child tax credit 22.9
Total cuts 45.4
Other Savings
Cut federal civilian compensation costs 10% 29.6
Cut foreign development aid by 50% 5.2
Cut NASA spending by 50% 9.8
Privatize the Corps of Engineers (Civil Works) 10.6
Repeal Davis-Bacon labor rules 9.0
End EPA state and local grants 6.5
End foreign military financing 5.4
End subsidies for the Corp. for Nat. Comm. Srv. 0.6
End subsidies to the Corp. for Public Broadcasting 0.5
End the Neighborhood Reinvestment Corp. 0.2
Total cuts 77.4
Grand total annual spending cuts $1,084.9

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I personally never knew anyone who got a second mortgage on their home for a car. Or for anything else EXCEPT home improvement. I had a buddy who did one to get his hands on a quick 30 grand to build a swimming pool. He borrowed on his home for that.

I retired from my construction contracting business in 2003. I dealt with many individuals and businesses that obtained construction financing. Many padded items onto their construction loans like major appliances, general improvement to existing properties like heating and cooling, complete replacement of windows to existing properties, et al. ..

These are major purchases and the are in the scope of the construction spending.

However, I also know people that re-mortgaged their homes to pay for the cost of their children's education and general purchases; autos, living-room furniture and various consumer items.

Many "home equity loans" and refinances were sold on the premise of paying off other loans; credit cards, student loans, medical bills ... This was targeted at middle-class earners, the same ones that cannot afford porn subscriptions today ...

Maybe, the problem is that the higher income folks are few in number and their sales do not compensate ...

[ReGGs]

As long as people don't realize that spending cuts in a recession will jut lead to more recession we are going to be screwed. Show me one Economist that says spending cuts in an economic downturn will help? The whole balanced budget thing is downright stupid at best and disingenuously crazy at the least when you consider a decade ago our problem was running a budget surplus. The problem is not government spending. It was FINANCIAL COLLAPSE and that had nothing to do with how much the government was spending and everything to do with deregulation of the financial markets by both Republicans and Democrats. Now we are left digging ourselves out of a ditch and the only solutions being passed are to dig deeper into that ditch.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by ReGGs

As long as people don't realize that spending cuts in a recession will jut lead to more recession we are going to be screwed. Show me one Economist that says spending cuts in an economic downturn will help? The whole balanced budget thing is downright stupid at best and disingenuously crazy at the least when you consider a decade ago our problem was running a budget surplus. The problem is not government spending. It was FINANCIAL COLLAPSE and that had nothing to do with how much the government was spending and everything to do with deregulation of the financial markets by both Republicans and Democrats. Now we are left digging ourselves out of a ditch and the only solutions being passed are to dig deeper into that ditch.

I'm not sure that the GOVERNMENT spending OUR money is in any way the answer to getting us out of a recession.

And I'm also of the opinion that the government of the United States spending over 300 billion dollars a day is outrageous.

The govt. was never intended to do 999 out of every 1000 things it sticks it's nose into.

I feel the govt. should spend the bare minimum to do the things it is supposed to do and not one penny more. And WE should be able to keep our own money and have a real economy. Not a false one that is created because everybody is working FOR the govt.

The government is supposed to work for us. Not the other way around I think.

[Barry-xlovecam]

[nickey1952]

Market down $350 while congress and lame ass Republican and Tea pARTY VACATION, GET BACK TO WORK YOU F@UCKS

[tony286]

Two biggest economic boosts in our lifetimes were during reagan and clinton and both of them raised taxes. Go figure

[Moose]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I personally never knew anyone who got a second mortgage on their home for a car. Or for anything else EXCEPT home improvement. I had a buddy who did one to get his hands on a quick 30 grand to build a swimming pool. He borrowed on his home for that.

But I didn't know anyone that just took out a loan on their home to go get a car. I'm sure that a lot of folks did do the home improvement loans though. That's a very reasonable thing to do. Borrow against your own equity to improve the property and raise the value of it.

Unfortunately...if you borrowed that money in 2007 or early 2008 right before the free-fall...you got destroyed.

Millions of people used the equity in their homes like an ATM machine through Home Equity Lines of Credit the last decade, creating huge consumer spending that did not include home improvement. Buying cars,vacations,second homes ..you name it, it was being bought with HELOCS.
Millions of these loans were being originated in California alone in the last big run up, sure alot more elsewhere as well.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Moose

Millions of people used the equity in their homes like an ATM machine through Home Equity Lines of Credit the last decade, creating huge consumer spending that did not include home improvement. Buying cars,vacations,second homes ..you name it, it was being bought with HELOCS.
Millions of these loans were being originated in California alone in the last big run up, sure alot more elsewhere as well.

why was this allowed?

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by tony286

Two biggest economic boosts in our lifetimes were during reagan and clinton and both of them raised taxes. Go figure

they also cut spending, both of them.

Too bad Barry deosn't read the history books

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Dow Indu
11866.62
-265.87 -2.19%

9999?

Dow Indu
11542.16 -354.28 -2.98%

11497.17 -399.27 (-3.36%)

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Moose

Millions of people used the equity in their homes like an ATM machine through Home Equity Lines of Credit the last decade, creating huge consumer spending that did not include home improvement. Buying cars,vacations,second homes ..you name it, it was being bought with HELOCS.
Millions of these loans were being originated in California alone in the last big run up, sure alot more elsewhere as well.

I've heard that. But again...neither myself or anyone I know personally has knowledge of anybody buying cars and vacations with home equity loans.

And since the people I run with are homeowners like myself...it seems strange that none of us or anyone in our families knows of anyone using their home like an ATM machine.

First off you had to HAVE equity in the home to do that...right? Which means you have paid enough of your mortgage to have something in it correct? Or am I off base about that?

Anyway, that would mean that it would be mostly people with money to begin with. Nice enough homes with enough equity to get a home equity loan.

I personally had a home equity loan on my last house in South Carolina. I borrowed $200,000 against it.
BUT...I had already paid the home off in it's entirety in 8 years, and I already had it sold. I needed the money to close on my current home in Las Vegas.
So I took out the home equity loan. Flew to Vegas with 200 grand. Closed on my current home with that money. Flew back to South Carolina did the closure with my old home the following week with the new buyer.
Paid back the home equity loan in full right there on the spot.

That was my personal home equity loan story. I never knew anyone who took a home equity loan to go on vacation or buy a car though.

Did you personally ever know someone who did that? It sounds like a pretty dumb idea right out the gate if they did.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by tony286

Two biggest economic boosts in our lifetimes were during reagan and clinton and both of them raised taxes. Go figure

So are you saying that if the govt. raises taxes (so they can just keep spending 300 billion dollars a day), then we will get a big economic boost and people will start spending money at the store which will mean companies need more employees to build stuff and everything will be great?

I don't get that logic at all Tony.

I don't think that lowering taxes "Creates jobs" either. But I do believe it's only right to be able to keep the money you EARN.

How does giving it away to the federal govt. make the economy great?

I don't see any evidence whatsoever that raising taxes had anything to do with Clinton having a great economy. I think Clinton was super smart, and the economy benefited GREATLY from the internet bubble.

Without the internet, there would have been just an "average" economy during his time. As for Reagan, he created a sense of stability in business and a feeling that Washington, D.C. was going to be more business friendly. And that is something that we are missing right now.

I know it sounds dumb...but when I'm feeling uncertainty I tend to stop what I'm doing and "circle the wagons". Reagan made the entire nation feel that they could safely hitch the wagons back up and go forward.

Clinton did too.

But right now we are in a crisis of confidence

[Vendzilla]

Originally Posted by Robbie

So are you saying that if the govt. raises taxes (so they can just keep spending 300 billion dollars a day), then we will get a big economic boost and people will start spending money at the store which will mean companies need more employees to build stuff and everything will be great?

I don't get that logic at all Tony.

I don't think that lowering taxes "Creates jobs" either. But I do believe it's only right to be able to keep the money you EARN.

How does giving it away to the federal govt. make the economy great?

I don't see any evidence whatsoever that raising taxes had anything to do with Clinton having a great economy. I think Clinton was super smart, and the economy benefited GREATLY from the internet bubble.

Without the internet, there would have been just an "average" economy during his time. As for Reagan, he created a sense of stability in business and a feeling that Washington, D.C. was going to be more business friendly. And that is something that we are missing right now.

I know it sounds dumb...but when I'm feeling uncertainty I tend to stop what I'm doing and "circle the wagons". Reagan made the entire nation feel that they could safely hitch the wagons back up and go forward.

Clinton did too.

But right now we are in a crisis of confidence

Nicely said!!!!