billywatson

Imagine that.

"ASAG".

Imagine a business that's historically been "outlaw" to actually get their shit together and create a union that empowers their workers.

An actor getting into the biz gets issued a card by the same place they got their medical test. They're assigned a number -- their ASAG number -- and that's how they're ID'd for future testing. And when they walk on set, we refer to their STD test by their ASAG number, not their real / stage name.

ASAG cards could also be the second form of ID for #2257.

ASAG members are only repped by licensed, bonded agencies. And the only way to get your ASAG card is to be refereed to the testing center by a licensed, bonded agent.

Bye bye frauds and pimps. Well...illegal pimps.

How about ASAG members have a small percentage of their earnings held until they're ready to retire from adult acting...and they get that money back -- plus interest.

All ASAG members jobs are tracked in case of the unfortunate -- for example, an HIV+ test.

There would have to be an agency that runs ASAG, and their interest can only be ASAG and its workers.

ASAG rates are set in stone and determined both by producers and agents.

Sure there's all sorts of issues that would have to be worked out, and there's holes in every idea, but why there's no version of SAG for adult actors in this day and age is silly. I'm winging this post before I go shoot, but I just wanted to give you some food for thought.

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spazlabz

sounds like it would not work. It would drive up the cost of production while providing no added value in an industry that a lot of people are struggling in. It would kill new comers who are looking to innovate on a small budget. I think it sounds great in theory but like so many ideas the practical application would be impractical.

vsex

Would've been good a few years ago. At this point, there is limited shooting/work. I think the time has already passed on making that idea work.

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Most realistic thing ever written on GFY:

Shap: "Solidarity is nice in theory but this industry has proven time and time again it can not stand together. The best advice I can give you is to do what is best for you with both your short term and long term goals in mind."

blackmonsters

That's like saying that the real SAG killed independent films.

Not true.

The part Billy left out was that premium porn actors are not going to do any non-union
work if this happened.

The result will be that only top studios will hire these performers and studios will
desire to become a ASAG signatory because then they have "the rep" of a high quality
studio.

Opposition to a union like ASAG will only come from low level producers.
It can be argued that low level producers are hurting the business anyway by
flooding the market with shitty, yet "jackable" content.

The reality is that unionized porn with a high level of protection for the performer
and the clear possiblity of a future(pension, health, employee rights)
will bring out hot babes that we have never seen before.

That's got to mean more money!

It's made more money in the music biz, movie biz, writers biz etc, etc...

I have heard no stories where an unorganized industry made less money because of
unionization. And the reason is simple. The money saved on fucking employees is lost
when the employee quits and a new hire comes in and has to be trained.

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billywatson

Pimps and shady producers are the other opposition, I would imagine.

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FetishDirector

I love the idea with the exception of the agents. Very few agents rep male performers, so making nomination from an agent a requirement for membership cuts out the male talent pool. And even if this led to more guys getting representation, there is still the matter of the fringe players- fetish performers. They are a legitimate part of the industry, and could actually make more use of some of the resources being suggested, like mentoring and health insurance, than the vanilla performers.

MaDalton

i don't see something like that happening

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blackmonsters

Exactly, and that would be a good reason to have a union.

You know, maybe it's time to petition the real SAG again.
They are totally capable of doing this but have had a standing policy for
years to "not organize pornography".

This policy was in place before 2257 and porn stars with wiki pages; which leaves
a paper trail of performance of legitimate work.

The internet has made porn a little more mainstream than before but SAG probably
still worries about being attacked by the conservative right as "legitimizing porn".

So for SAG it's like "why attract a problem when we're doing just fine without it?"

Also, I bet a ton of actors would vote against it because when they show their
SAG card they don't want people thinking "Actor?? sure buddy, you fuck in porn".

Yeah, so you are right to try for ASAG.
The actor vote killed the merger of AFTRA with SAG every time it was held.

Wow, just did a google. Here we go again :

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...r-might-101643

Everything they are saying now I heard since the late 1980.

If SAG can't get the actors to vote for AFTRA merger then porn has no chance.
Most decent actors are in both unions anyway and they still don't vote to merge.

Your right, it's going to be ASAG or fucking nothing.

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WarChild

Hahaha that's awesome. The majority of "porn talent" can't organize paying their cellular phone bill on time and you want them to organize a union? That's just awesome.

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blackmonsters

Talent doesn't organize the union.

The union organizes the talent.

And for the record, most mainstream actors in SAG are just as fucking dumb.

I have yet to hear of a pornstar that was a stupid as Lindsay Lohan.
It also looks like mainstream actors commit more murders too.

http://www.google.com/search?q=actor+convited+of+murder

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WarChild

Please, having a vagina doesn't mean you have talent. Wanting to peddle it for pennies on the Internet pretty much means you don't have any real marketable talents.

Let's just start calling them what they are. No more "porn talent", rather let's call them 'girls that are making a decision they will most probably come to regret for a small amount of money that will be gone before the end of the week.". On second thought, that seems a little long. Maybe just porn whores for short.

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blackmonsters

People say the same thing about mainstream actors.

I've notice however that most people who say that aren't worth a shit at anything
themselves and mainly they are never good at anything because they never think
it requires any talent and therefore they never develop any talent.

So I figure with your attitude you never made a sports team in high school, didn't go to
college, never got cast in a real play, never made a movie, wrote a complete song or
made a painting that someone would buy.

And that would be the truth right?

(maybe you went to college)

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WarChild

I've made a movie, I wouldn't say it was very good. I used to be interested in stop action animation as a kid.
I made more than one high school sports team.
I went to college.
I've never auditioned for a real play. I did date a girl that was in Broadway musicals. I don't think that counts though.
I've never tried to write a song and probably I couldn't. I'm not musically inclined at all.
I've never made a painting that someone would buy and likely never could. I can't even draw a circle.

I do speak two languages.
I can program in more than 10 different languages and frequently write code people do buy.
I teach and complete in an organized, competitive combat sport.
I'm a pretty good cook.

How does that all fit in to your world?

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blackmonsters

Grandiose lies about one's failed projects always fit into my world.

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WarChild

It's okay man, I don't consider myself better than you. I'm sure most people would, but I don't roll like that.

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blackmonsters

Bottom line : You fear a union because you'd get kicked out.

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WarChild

Hey remember that time I caught you telling lies about paying your rent from interest on $10,000 in the bank? Remember, you couldn't do basic math and calculate interest so your lie just seemed silly and stupid. That was pretty funny!

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blackmonsters

Yeah, I remember it.

I made a 30 year old memory error and typed it in without even checking.

Boo hoo!

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CurrentlySober

If you add the word 'lover' into it - Cause the porn people do 'make love' you get ASLAG...

Add a hyphen, and the dot com and away yah go

A-SLAG.com (which is available...)

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CharityBangs

Well, I think we're 80% on the same page, there should be some standardization, but I think it should be mostly voluntary, and money kept 100% out of it. Any time there's money involved you not introduce possibility of corruption, and even if that corruption never occurs you at least give off the image of corruption to your enemies.

So long story short, here's the beginning of my grand plan, to start with a simple professional association, NOT a union, as a first step:

*edited, can't post a url yet... need 30 more posts, can someone post for me? It's just a presentation on google docs*

MaDalton

just write the link without http... someone else can quote the full url

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CharityBangs

got it:
docs.google.com/present/view?id=d33972t_0hnb3snhk

MaDalton

https://docs.google.com/present/view...hnb3snhk&pli=1

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CharityBangs

Thank you.

Grapesoda

this is where it started costing you and me money, it's going to take 25 people to run all that shit and not one of them will have jobs other than what they can make of us...

RycEric

Interesting

blackmonsters

OK, now here's where you fix that.

With dues!

You make union membership for everybody so that thousands of performers can join.
Don't make those SAG rules where performers have to "qualify".
If somebody wants to take a dick up their ass then they fucking qualify!

If a blind fugly street whore wants to join just in case she gets a job one day then sign her up.

And everybody pays dues based on their income.

Billy mention fixed rates set by producers and agents....no way, that will kill this
idea in 2 seconds flat for premium performers.

The agents and producers will instead agree on a union minimum payout.
No one will work for less but anyone can work for more.
That's how it's done in the real SAG.

Those dues are used to maintain the union office, health plan, and pension funds.
The health plan and pension funds will be the motivating factor for performers
to report their income correctly and pay all dues since there will be a minimum
"earned income" to qualify for the plans.


I suggest that people who have never worked for a union avoid creating "cool rules" for
this thing. You will just fuck it up. The unions worked for years to come up with plans
that work.


Do the shit the way the shit already works!

If you've never been in a union then please admit you don't know how they work and get help from someone who does.

I said that with the "red face" because I'm thinking about a guy I knew that took
a million dollars and tried to run a dance club without hiring a DJ.

Nobody could explain to this smarty pants that it wouldn't work.
Even though he knew that all the other dance clubs had DJ's, he still refused to see it.
He kept providing all this logic as to why his idea would work and continued into
collapse. All he had to do to be successful was admit to himself that the night
club biz had already been figured out long ago and he should just follow it.

What a fucking idiot.

Doing things the way the real SAG does it will increase the chances of success and
if there is enough success to finally get the interest of SAG then it will be much
easier to do a merger. A merger with SAG would be gold!



Disclaimer : do everything SAG does except the performer "qualifying standards".

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Caligari

It's a viable idea really, could be a progressive move for the adult industry.

Kind of doubt SAG would get involved, but there are alot of byproducts of the SAG deal which are lucrative to say the least.
You have sag awards, members screenings, events etc and those could all be done with an adult version.

Is there a porn star walk of fame where they get a star? If not there should be, too many true talents in the biz like John Leslie, John Holmes etc should have a lasting monument. I'm not kidding, totally serious.

Alot of things involved, but it's got potential. I'm tired, got to come back tomorrow and read this all over again but you guys have something here.

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Grapesoda

blackmonsters

Keep laughing, but there is no union without dues.

Smart people will pay it, dumb people will not get benefits and not get the
weekly union producer's call list of where to go to get work.

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CharityBangs

Weekly call list? the producers (the couple dozen that are still booking paid work) don't change that often, and most are reachable through multiple channels including twitter, phone, email, PA's, etc... there would be almost no benefit to a union except to waster money that would be coming out of the performers and possibly producers, pockets. Think about it, what type of benefits could a union provide? Health insurance? Hell no, no better than calling up BCBS, or Aetna, the difference is that each performer would pay the premium directly instead of through an intermediary.

An all volunteer type of association though would be just as effective, helping to steer anyone in the industry to some type of private benefits that, the larger the association, the better rate they may be able to negotiate. And as far as producer call list, perhaps an association could maintain a "see, no see" type of list, with the producers that are honest and reputable, and the ones that are not, as well as help them set up online profiles, etc....

Again, there's a lot to be ironed out, but we could make it a work in progress....

I'll be organizing the next meeting for about 2 weeks from now... if anyone knows a good location in the valley that can hold 40-50 people that won't cost $$$, I'm all ears! Otherwise we may be doing it at Kabuki off Ventura again.

blackmonsters

If you are involved then I will not waste my time with it.

You are not talking about anything that actually happens in a real union.

You want to put together a cluster fuck.

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CharityBangs

Thank you for your insightful opinion.

CharityBangs

On an actual related note, I find it funny someone has already registered adultscreenactorsguild.com on or about the same date this thread was started..... sorry cybersquatters, I already have another name in mind, and it won't be thrown out until I have the address registered.

Far-L

Neat idea and I wish you luck but a few issues are going to make it nearly impossible to be anything more than a well intentioned idea that never flies:

• Unions require unity which there is zero of in the fiercely independant and competitive world of porn
• Too much time and expense to launch with out a decent bank roll to get it going - no one will buy into something that doesn't have an office, employees, a business plan, etc.
• FSC could feasibly take this on but has not, even though they were intimating something along those lines a while back... why did it go nowhere?
• Dues would have to be low enough that performers could afford it on their sporadic incomes but that would hinder maintaining operations until the volume of people supported it but then how long do people stay in the biz for it to make sense regardless?
• Historically, similar efforts have failed - mainly due to apathy
• Unlike mainstream, "indies" rather than "studios" provide most of the paid employment opportunities
• Needs to offer more than just testing verification to really justify payment of dues and good luck convincing anyone that holding their money in trust until retirement is ok

I could go on but you get the drift...

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billywatson

Whether you define it as a union or an association, no one's gonna work for free...and trust me, running this thing will be work.

Work means pay.

Pay means dues.

And if the people who pay the dues don't see a bang for their buck, they ain't paying dues no more.

But this is a start.

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Far-L

Ok... so you started the thread... now that the hard part is over, should be all downhill from here...

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