Relentless

Yup Ronald, everyone is a lying failing unemployed 'shitstain' in their mom's basement according to you. Whether they are successful or not has zero bearing on your statements.

Fortunately many of the people you keep attempting to falsely denigrate as failures have continued buying my services and earning a nice income. So have many people you would agree are successful. In fairness, you do have a very exceptional boss. Nobody I know has ever denied that.

I do wonder if Warren Buffet's ego is bruised by your 'insults', I don't know anyone in the adult community who takes them seriously... but he may not know that.

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12clicks

no, just you and a small handful of trolls.

what was your last job before adult?

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Relentless

Your pathetic attempts to derail a thread and make it 'about me' always fail. As I've told you countless times in other threads, I don't discuss my personal life on porn boards. My prior 'careers' are numerous and I am quite happy with their outcomes, some still have ongoing benefits years after I shelved them. They are also no more relevant to the current thread than your experience as a roofer. I never understand how being a roofer was an insult either. /shrug

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Robbie

Can we please get to the bottom of the "12 Clicks was a roofer" story?

He has been in the adult online business making good money since the 1990's right?

So when he was a young man he worked as a roofer? Is that the story? And if so...what does it matter what people did for honest work when they first jumped out in the world?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Is the "roofer" story simply from a long ago troll and it caught on and became an urban myth of GFY? Or was 12Clicks once an actual guy on a roof with hammer and nails at one point 20 years ago?

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Relentless

Exactly Robbie,

How is it an insult that he was or is a roofer? That never made sense to me. I'm sure Warren Buffet had a 'job' before he had a career as well. One of the wealthiest men I have ever known worked at a car wash as a teenager... that doesn't make him a squeegee guy in his forties or fifties

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12clicks

wow, your total lack of self awareness in the thread is typical of you.
Anyway, enjoy fantasy land. I'd not take the only thing you had away from you.

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Relentless

Noted....

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12clicks

Before I moved to the internet, I ran a successful commercial roofing company for 15yrs.
I don't understand why guys pretending to have a business out of their mom's house make fun of it either.
I've been a successful business owner in vastly different fields for over 25 years.
I've made more money in either one than most trolls will in a life time.
I guess its jealously.

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12clicks

run in the other room and explain to your mom that while you might not be making any money, you're teaching a guy who does a thing or two on the internet.

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Shotsie

Roofing is a career. I know the local 30 Roofers have to go through a three year apprenticeship, they probably make a little more than laborers. Their rate isn't as high as the more skilled trades like electricians, tin-knockers and sprinklerfitters but it's decent.

TheDoc

From what I understand he owns a company that does it, I would hope he doesn't do it himself unless he has no choice.

Is that bad... no, unless you're 12clicks mr. construction worker that ditches on everyone else for shit jobs while pretending everything ever earned was done through porn....

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12clicks

hahaha. don't you have to start dinner for the bread winner in the family?

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Robbie

Cool. So that is the "roofer" story?

Then that makes posts calling you a "roofer" look like they are trying to imply that you are nothing more than a laborer who somehow got lucky? And the implication is done by calling you a "roofer" instead of the truth that you ran the company?

Typical GFY lol

I love this board. heh-heh

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

12clicks

well that and the whole, I have no traffic, no joins, and no money thing when in reality I'm pretty sure every employee in my office makes more than my detractors do in this business.

It seems to be the M.O. of trolls exiting the business to take shots at their betters on the way out the door.
remember snake doctor?

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Shotsie

Well, i'm sure he started out as a roofer. You don't just jump in the construction trades and open a contracting business.

What would be really funny is if he ran a union shop.

12clicks

what business did you own before coming here and what exactly do you do now?
you seem to want to be noticed.

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BFT3K

Before porn I used to go house-to-house pushing people off of roofs...



Now I sell portable unicycles to the Chinese...

TheDoc

I personally don't care what he once did. He says the same bullshit to others that are clearly successful in this Industry.... far larger than he ever was or will be. It's just kinda funny to watch him go off on people, when clearly his own crap sites and program went down the drain long ago.

I just like to rag his ass... poke a few times and watch his replies... come on, he thinks having a smart kick ass educated wife that f'in kills it is an insult, that shit is funny man. She produces more sales than he ever has, and he brings her up to insult me...

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TheDoc

Back to our discussion... Everyone reaps the benefits in various ways. I can't really think of any ways that a poor person gets more.

Why is it unfair?

It's a scale that is equal... using b.s. numbers here, your first $20k is taxed (and refunded) exactly the same as everyone, exactly like the poor person. Even if you made 10 billion, your first $20k is a gimme.

It makes no difference how we do it, 5% tax, 15% tax, zero fed spending and 1% tax, the super rich will from now on will pay the majority of the tax. That is something that is impossible to avoid, even if we taxed the poor more than the rich and did no refunds, the top 50% would still pay the majority of the taxes.

The top 50% truly has that much more money than the bottom 50%.

Coming back around... I 100% agree we need to cut spending way back, all over... THEN figure out this tax and debt crap. Even if that was done, the super rich will still continue to pay simply because they continue to consume the wealth. Maybe we would all pay less, maybe some could earn more, either way they will always pay the majority unless they're basically taxed to death, making them spend and invest - to avoid the tax. Which I'm not suggesting, but that is what happened in the past, and in did do that.

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12clicks

really? like who?


hahaha, the imaginary world of the house wife can be a strange thing.

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Why

as you just illustrated, manufacturing doesn't create a whole lot of jobs per million$ invested. so why give cuts to sectors that don't create a ton of jobs?

you have a million dollar machine that puts 2 people to work, yet someone could invest a million into a pizza parlor chain that gives 50+ people work.... one makes a lot more sense in achieving our current goals then the other.

they should give cuts to sectors that have the easiest path to job creation, manufacturing isn't one of those. if they want to help manufacturing, they should increase tariffs on imported goods, thus making it more cost effective to manufacture inside our own borders.

Why

this agree on entirely.

everyone gets a 15% wack, regardless of how they got it, or how much of it they got.

Minte

Directly, manufacturing is going the way of automation. So the number of jobs created is less than it was 20 years ago per dollar invested. However,the jobs we do create are typically at the higher end of the wagescale. Indirectly, there are a lot of support industrys that prosper when manufacturing plants open. I just looked at our inventory spreadsheet. We currently purchase over 1200 items from a lot of companies.

edit: ps.in 2 weeks we have another welding robot arriving. Even though it is completely automated process, there will be 3 new hires to keep it fed with parts.

When the recession hit, manufacturing did not get a bailout. We were on our own..sink or swim.

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Traffic Guru

You don't have any employees. LOL.
What the hell you need employees for? You never update your shitty sites nor you have any real affiliates. I have yet to see a single person that promotes your program and yes, I bought membership to your site. 10 old DVDs chopped up with 350 MB files. Brazzers are betters, pimproll are betters. You are a joke.

Relentless

Manufacturing is no more or less important than any other sector, however the advantage of manufacturing is that it can impact trade.

50 pizza shop may hire 200 people but all of them get paid by Americans and the customers are all Americans, while many of the ingredients may well be imported.
You can't send pizzas to other countries.

On the other hand, if we manufacture a widget, the same dollars may only result in 5 jobs rather than 200, but when we sell a widget to a foreign customer we bring in revenue and expand our economy.
In the last 20 years the vast majority of our consumer exports have been increasingly digital. Movies, software, games, etc... Blizzard may only have a few hundred well-paid employees but they also bring a boatload of cash in from other countries. As you know, digital products are now pirated and stolen at an absurd rate. Our government is unaware, unable and disinterested in actually protecting digital manufacturers. That makes manufcture of physical goods even more important to our international trade balance.

We ought to be doing much better analysis of our spending. Any sharp webmaster puts more effort into tracking his $/click than our government puts into tracking huge expenditures. Bill Gates did a very worthwhil TED lecture on th lack of monetary tracking by our government. The spending side of the equation ought to have it's own thread, and I assure you manufacture of physical good warrants more investment than many ventures that would create a greater number of short term jobs.

The jobs problem won't be fixed by investment. Stimulus is not going to fix unemployment, it may prevent a depression and spur a recovery but it won't fix the fundamental long term problem. We simply do not have enough work for everyone who is willing and able to work. That problem will get worse over time. Businesses are growing more efficient at an insane pace. Only a decade or two ago people used to mail letters or send a fax. Nobody had a cell phone. You needed a secretarial pool. A computer spreadsheet was magic to most people. Payroll departments existed before ADP. Technology builds on itself and gains momentum exponentially. Does anyone really think in 100 years we will have jobs requiring all capable workers in a society of 300+ million?

The jobs issue will only be fixed with fundamental changes like 4 day work week, free (yes entirely free) minimal housing, food, transport and utilities for non-workers. The start of it will likely be large tax incentives for families where one spouse stays home to raise their kids. They will sell it as restoring the American family but in reality it will be a way of paying people not to compete for jobs.

We pay people based on production because there has always been demand for production. In many sectors that demand is already dying, gmail replaces most of the postal service.... When production is no longer in demand our method of assigning value can not continue to be solely based on employment payrolls.

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Minte

Interesting that you mention trade. 2011 has been very interesting. We've increased international shipments by nearly 400%. Our largest customer in the metals division is the Federal Government of Vietnam. This was also the first year we've sold more to China than we bought.

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Relentless

Just pray we dont find a solution for cold fusion any time soon.
As soon as we have limitless clean power readily available for free and in immediate supply, physical manufacturing will become obsolete as well.

They used to promise innovation and science would lead to a higher standard of living and less work for everyone. So far we are perverting the productivity enhancements to amp up production rather than get more done with less work. Eventually getting more done just won't be helpful... and we will have to work less, like it or not.

If you haven't seen it minte, watch the bill gates TED lecture on governments tracking spending.
He really is a fairly bright guy heh.
Also, the iPad TED app is brilliant - though it too has undoubtedly put a lot of lesser lecturers out of work as well. ;)

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Minte

I visualize the pharmacy industry growing to be the largest business on earth if a world where people don't work ever comes to be. I would be bored beyond words.

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12clicks

Do you rush home from the day job to post this?

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tiger

This is the game. They get the rich to bitch at the poor and vice versa. The truth is everyone gets raped by taxes some just more than others. We are not only double, but triple and quadruple taxed. Every cent you earn is taxed, then when you go to spend you are taxed again with a sales tax, don't forget most states will tax your income again, so you get fucked on the federal and state level, when you go to invest you are taxed again, go to buy a house you are taxed again, want to drive a car pay taxes to gas it up. And if they don't get you on the taxes they will get you with registration and filing fees for everything you can imagine.

Medicare and social security are the biggest fucking ponzi schemes in the history of the world. You pay into these social programs your whole life then the politicians dip their greedy little fingers in any time they want to fund one of their buddies no bid contracts then 20 years later say oh there is no money in there time to make some cuts, sorry old timer.

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Relentless

I doubt that very much. The nature of 'work' will change.
You might be a pretty good painter or sculptor if you put your mind to it.
When work becomes obsolete Art takes its place.
The other alternative is a MASSIVE change in our technology level like space travel.

But if we keep going on the current path at the current pace, work will dry up for many people in the next 100 years and 30 or 40 percent unemployment will be unavoidable. It just doesn't take that many people to put food on the table anymore.

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tony286

They arent a ponzi scheme they have been paying out for over 70 years. Do you have any idea what health insurance would cost when your 68? 70?

Minte

Sounds a lot like Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut, I read that about 25 years ago and thought at the time it sounded a lot like a world that I wouldn't really enjoy much.

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Relentless

If you had time all day to learn about and design sportscars, which you could actually build and drive you would be unhappy?
We aren far off from being able to make our hobbies our focus rather than making funding our hobbies our focus.

At the end of the day it's all about distracting ourselves from the fact we are all going to die and nit be remembered more than a hundred years or two hundred max after we keel over.
I'm confident we would all be able find new distractions. ;)

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Minte

I counter that with...if you make your hobbies your work,what do you do for fun?

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Shotsie

Relentless

People who do that, like you and me, will continue working. I don't expect us to ever reach 100% mandatory unemployment. However, I do expect (and most futurists agree based on economic / sociological data) that we will reach a point in the near future where work will be a choice rather than a requirement.

As stated earlier in the thread, owning your own lambo will likely remain a luxury people have to work for... but using the subways and trains, wifi, nutritious (non-gourmet) food and a basic home suitable to the number of occupants will likely be as free as 'going to the park' is presently. When work only represents gaining upgrades, rather than necessities many people will opt out.

Thinking of the unemployed as shiftless lazy leeches has to stop. For example, there is very strong evidence that children do better when their parents are directly involved in their day to day development. Many families can't afford to have one parent stay home. That will change quickly when society doesn't have a job for both of them to go to even if they want one.

Yes, some people are lazy and incompetent, others simply see work as a way to fund their non-work time rather than a way to enjoy their time. They are lucky to be born in this era or the next era rather than to be born in the 1600s or 1400s when that meant quick starvation.

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O MARINA

12Clicks, Minte and Relentless should start posting in my threads so I can get mad views

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Minte

I'd help you out by I am not reliable enough. This is only the second week in 2011 that I have been in the office with some spare time on my hands.

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O MARINA

What's up? Why so busy

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Relentless

I'm available for hire as always: Stewart [at] EngineFood.com

Contextual Backlinks, Press Releases, Site Text, SEO work, Consulting, Tubes, Social Media, Certifications and more. I'm on 7 days a week operating my own network of sites and have plenty of very happy clients willing to provide references. So, get me on ICQ# 266-942-896 any time and send me a link when you post something new or interesting

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marketsmart

she'll send you weekly nudes of herself for $20 a week Paypal...






.

O MARINA

ahahahahah

Sly page 6 yet? Please tell us what is converting for you!

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12clicks

ahhh, nothing.
thats what I thought. welcome, troll.

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Sly

She is over charging you. She just sent me flowers as thanks for looking at her pictures weekly.

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Robbie

Tony, that's my complaint: WHY does going to the doctor suddenly cost so much in the United States? And WHY do we pay so much more for the same exact prescription medication from the exact same companies in the U.S.?

When I was a kid, it didn't take insurance to be sick. You went to the doctor, or hospital and paid your bill. Even when I grew up it was still that way.

For instance: When I was in my mid-20's I was living in Ft. Lauderdale playing in my band. I made around $500 a week (great money in 1986 for a musician). My stepson had his appendix rupture and had to be rushed to the hospital. He was in for 3 days. I don't remember the exact bill...but I do remember that my wife (who was a bartender on the strip in Lauderdale at the time) and I were able to scrape together the money to pay the entire bill. We had no health insurance. And nobody we knew had any either (granted we were young)

Fast forward to 2010: Claudia had her appendix do the same thing. It cost almost $30,000 by the time all the bills rolled in! Unbelievable!

Then you can do a quick search for medical tourism...people are traveling to India and Costa Rica and Tijuana because the exact same procedures are 10 times cheaper!

Whatever is causing this...needs to be figured out and fixed.

Instead the answer always seems to be tax us more (or in the case of health, FORCE everyone to buy more insurance).

Also...in the interest of honest talk.
Here is the exact definition of "Ponzi Scheme". The same thing that has gotten many people put in prison:
"A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from their own money or the money paid by subsequent investors, rather than from any actual profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. The Ponzi scheme usually entices new investors by offering returns other investments cannot guarantee, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the returns that a Ponzi scheme advertises and pays requires an ever-increasing flow of money from investors to keep the scheme going.

The system is destined to collapse because the earnings, if any, are less than the payments to investors. Usually, the scheme is interrupted by legal authorities before it collapses because a Ponzi scheme is suspected or because the promoter is selling unregistered securities. As more investors become involved, the likelihood of the scheme coming to the attention of authorities increases."

So I think that when people say "ponzi scheme" about Social Security, they are trying to say that it's set up where the people paying in NOW are paying for the people already getting the money. And there is no bank account with the money that you and I are paying in right now that is being untouched and gathering interest for our retirement.
And as more and more people are collecting Social Security (as people live longer) and less and less are putting money in...the whole thing is going to collapse.
The illegality of the Ponzi Scheme is that people investing right now will never see their return on their money. And that is where the Social Security system is heading as well. It's gonna go bankrupt and we won't see the money we put in.

I personally feel it's total b.s. for the govt. to force that on people as well. If I had my choice I would opt out of that so fast it would make your head spin. But they won't allow it.
Why?
"Well Robbie, because then people would just blow their money and have nothing at the end and the state would have to pay for them"
No.
That may be true but that's not WHY the govt. forces everyone to stay in.
They force us because WE are paying for people getting money NOW.

And without us paying in right NOW, the whole system collapses because it has none of the money that was paid in by the people collecting it now.

Thus, the "ponzi scheme" comment.
Only usually a "ponzi scheme" is something that people get tricked into. This one we are forced into by law.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Traffic Guru

Whats a "day job", Toby? Like roofing or something?
Does every "successful" businessmen in your area quit their "successful" businesses and go into building free sites and selling clicks to Russians?

Barefootsies

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tony286

you have great points but before SS . For most old age was a poverty sentence. Also many dont make enough to save for old age. The avg income in this country is $50k. That's not a ton of money and lots are lucky to make 30k.
Now you can say fuck them,they should of did better. My answer is someone has to do the shit jobs.

tony286

I borrow this from another thread, its a quote from Elizabeth Warren
"There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody.
You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: you moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did.

Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."