GREEK WEBMASTERS: Is the situation in GREECE really that bad?

[Argos88]

Or it's inflated by the media to create more panic worldwide?

The only adult webmaster I remember from Greece was the creator of AdvancedSubmitter.com that I used years ago to submit to TGPs-MGPs.. Haven't seen him in the business or ICQ for long time.

So, anyone from Greece here?

Is the situation there really that bad?

And are your adult gains enough to cover the expenses there?

[Redrob]

The real problem in Greece is that many work for the government and produce nothing. Just a giant social welfare state with nothing left to tax.
It is crashing under it's own weight as the people are getting pissed over losing their government jobs.

Just my observation.

[12clicks]

its America 10 years from now

[xanadu]

well thats really a topic that we can spend days talking about...

Things are bad and will go worse, will try to write something serious when i find some time but its endless and really difficult to understand if u are not greek or from countries with similar history and social structure (s.america etc)

As for webmasters I dont think there are more than 5-10 working in this industry and actually living in greece. Far more greek americans or in canada.

[Argos88]

Interesting...

Well yes.. if there are no GREEK webmasters in this forum, then if you have an opinion or know Greece situation pretty good, let us know what you think.

Besides USA and CANADA, for one reason or another I really don't know, there are lots of GREEK people in Australia. Or at least lots of lastnames of GREEK origin in Australia... I guess they had some kind of massive greek inmigration sometimes in the last 100 years.

Can think of many famous Australians with Greek lastnames.

[porno jew]

would only trust what an actual greek says on the matter. when i read what the US and foreign media writes about my country it is so wrong to be almost laughable, like the onion or something.

[MaDalton]

Panos was asking for fakelaki if i wanted to post here...

[roly]

From what i've read 30% of greek GDP is the black market and hence no tax is paid. if the tax that was due was collected, their problems would be sorted.

[amateurbfs]

Originally Posted by roly

From what i've read 30% of greek GDP is the black market and hence no tax is paid. if the tax that was due was collected, their problems would be sorted.

That could be said about probably any country in the world.

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by Redrob

The real problem in Greece is that many work for the government and produce nothing.

good point.

[pornmasta]

olive oil

[xanadu]

well I am a greek webmaster lol, I also know DJ Roof that posts a lot here and few more.

There are some basic facts:

-Greek political scene is heavily corrupted.
-Big part of the population as well, by taking part and supporting the existing system the last 200 years. Some more than others of course. I would say there is a 20% that is innocent by choice and another 20% due to not being smart enough(..)
-Foreign states are heavily involved due to the geographical location. After the "greek revolution"(1821-1830) that created the modern greek state, the first political parties were called "the English party", the "French" and the "Russian". Nothing has changed since then, apart that the US was added to the puzzle.
-Greece skipped the industrial revolution and moved directly to an economy of Services(Tourism, smuggling,human trafficking) with very distorted roots.
-Most healthy and energetic parts of the population migrate abroad the last 100 years.
-Loans and funds have been used in a completely twisted way.
-Greek culture is extremely violent in a social way.
-Half of the population moved to Athens the last 35 years from villages and small cities.
-Situation now is not sustainable.

Personally I expect chaos to rise soon and will affect all Europe but not for long(region is too critical to be left uncontrolled, unless the plan is to create a war...)

more to come...

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by roly

From what i've read 30% of greek GDP is the black market and hence no tax is paid. if the tax that was due was collected, their problems would be sorted.

The Greek debt is +- 170% of their GDP, so even if they taxed everyone at a 100% tax rate they still wouldn't be able to pay of their debt.

The problem isn't that people haven't been paying taxes. The problem is that the government has been constantly taking out new loans to pay for its own operation and to pay off older loans. The result is that the Greek government is now so deep in debt that they will never be able to pay off that debt and that it has become impossible to hide this fact and that no one is willing to give Greece any new loans because by now everyone can see that lending money to Greece means that you'll never see your money again.

Statists have been calling this a "market failure". They're screaming that "the market has clearly failed because the market no longer wants to lend money to Greece". Well, the market hasn't failed, the market is giving correct information. If no one is willing to lend money to Greece, that is the market's way of telling Greece "We know you would never be able to repay us if we gave you a loan".

It has been clear for a long time that this would happen and still a lot of banks gave out new loans to Greece. These banks are now in big trouble. And that is why the top EU leaders have been taxing the inhabitants of the other EU countries. They are raising new taxes (officially called 'a solidarity fund') so they can give money to Greece, so Greece can pay the (mostly French and UK) banks.

[boneprone]

The major problem I see with Greece is with its women.
In their younger years they are the most exotic and beautiful women on the planet. When they get older bam. They literally turn into balloons!

This is the main situation in Greece that is bad and should be discussed.

[xanadu]

Originally Posted by boneprone

The major problem I see with Greece is with its women.
In their younger years they are the most exotic and beautiful women on the planet. When they get older bam. They literally turn into a balloons!

This is the main situation in Greece that is bad and should be discussed.

spot on

We suffer more from the women than from the politicians or the debt,thats the sad truth

[xanadu]

Originally Posted by roly

From what i've read 30% of greek GDP is the black market and hence no tax is paid. if the tax that was due was collected, their problems would be sorted.

The whole problematic in Greece has little to do with tax evasion. Thats more a psychological media trick used internally and in the west...

Greece has serious structural issues and its in many ways an artificial state. Will be supported from US and EU as much is needed due to its geopolitical location. We can analyse numbers and loans for days but the real game is very different.

[bufferover]

Too bad for them We have a similar problem the administration is so big

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by 12clicks

its America 10 years from now

America is already there, they just keep printing money, max 3 years.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by xanadu

-Greece skipped the industrial revolution and moved directly to an economy of Services(Tourism, smuggling,human trafficking) with very distorted roots.

That's an interesting statement really.... I don't follow too much history, but I can just imagine the problems missing the entire industrial revolution can cause...

[TheDoc]

Greece is only as bad as the media is making them look.... debt/income/spending ,etc ratio wise, MANY Euro Countries and even America are FAR worse off.

They've gone through massive deregulation, selling off public assets to corps, large increases in the cost of living with very little increase in wages, they have cut the taxes for the super wealthy in various ways and increased taxes that hit the poorest the hardest and they plan on doing more....

All of which and more, help create the problem they're facing today - and is basically the same message the Republicans and Tea Party folks have in store for America.

[d-null]

Originally Posted by xanadu

-Greek culture is extremely violent in a social way....

does this mean that fights are common in night clubs? or do you mean in every day life situations? or are you referring to the ease that violent riots could break out?

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Greece is only as bad as the media is making them look.... debt/income/spending ,etc ratio wise, MANY Euro Countries and even America are FAR worse off.

They've gone through massive deregulation, selling off public assets to corps, large increases in the cost of living with very little increase in wages, they have cut the taxes for the super wealthy in various ways and increased taxes that hit the poorest the hardest and they plan on doing more....

All of which and more, help create the problem they're facing today - and is basically the same message the Republicans and Tea Party folks have in store for America.

ONe of the major differences is that the Other EU nations and the US can make money from other things. Selling Grains Products produced and tech that can be sold. Greece really does not have that.

And like Xanadu mentioned, the greed/corruption is out of hand. He mentioned its similar to the South American countries..

[seeandsee]

when something is bad, it will collapse, luck for them they have sea tourists to help $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ into country

[SIK]

Originally Posted by xanadu

There are some basic facts:

-Greek political scene is heavily corrupted.
-Big part of the population as well, by taking part and supporting the existing system the last 200 years. Some more than others of course. I would say there is a 20% that is innocent by choice and another 20% due to not being smart enough(..)
-Foreign states are heavily involved due to the geographical location. After the "greek revolution"(1821-1830) that created the modern greek state, the first political parties were called "the English party", the "French" and the "Russian". Nothing has changed since then, apart that the US was added to the puzzle.
-Greece skipped the industrial revolution and moved directly to an economy of Services(Tourism, smuggling,human trafficking) with very distorted roots.
-Most healthy and energetic parts of the population migrate abroad the last 100 years.
-Loans and funds have been used in a completely twisted way.
-Greek culture is extremely violent in a social way.
-Half of the population moved to Athens the last 35 years from villages and small cities.
-Situation now is not sustainable.

with just some minor names and number changes, I'd add the same list goes for:
- Croatia
- Serbia
- Bosnia
- Bulgaria
---- I'd add more, but these I know for sure

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by pornguy

ONe of the major differences is that the Other EU nations and the US can make money from other things. Selling Grains Products produced and tech that can be sold. Greece really does not have that.

And like Xanadu mentioned, the greed/corruption is out of hand. He mentioned its similar to the South American countries..

They are roughly the 15th largest economy in Europe, they have grown almost every year for 30 years, it's only over the last 5 years or so that they leveled off, then the problems started.

[redwhiteandblue]

Greece's problem is surely that every time they finish a meal, they smash all the plates. If they would stop smashing all their plates up they would be able to save enough money on plates to get out of debt.

[roly]

Originally Posted by u-Bob

The Greek debt is +- 170% of their GDP, so even if they taxed everyone at a 100% tax rate they still wouldn't be able to pay of their debt.

no one pays off a debt in one payment, the defecit is what the major problem is and that stands at about 10% of GDP. So if say a tax rate of 35% was paid on that missing 30% of GDP, the defecit is no more.

[V_RocKs]

Originally Posted by boneprone

The major problem I see with Greece is with its women.
In their younger years they are the most exotic and beautiful women on the planet. When they get older bam. They literally turn into balloons!

This is the main situation in Greece that is bad and should be discussed.

Quoted for truth

[SZNY]

So sad I love Greece been there many times and love the culture.

[_Richard_]

is goldman sachs still selling them under the table loans?

[Lucy - CSC]

Originally Posted by Redrob

The real problem in Greece is that many work for the government and produce nothing. Just a giant social welfare state with nothing left to tax.
It is crashing under it's own weight as the people are getting pissed over losing their government jobs.

Just my observation.

They dont do nothing. They work for the state owned companies which are there to secure jobs in the country so they dont go abroad. Not that the companies are going to be sold off and owned by the same people who are responsible for the problem they will run for profit so the jobs, manufacturing etc will be sent abroad.

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by Lucy - CSC

They work for the state owned companies

state owned companies = companies that have no incentive to keep their customers happy because they get paid anyway (with tax dollars/euros).

One of my neighbors is a 70+ year old guy who used to work for a state owned company for over 20 years. During summer he comes by every now and then to drop off some vegetables from his garden. One story he has told me many times is how, after he had gotten a job in a state owned company after having worked in a privately owned company, his new boss complained to him about how he was doing his job. His boss in the state owned company complained that he was finishing his tasks too quickly. He complained that he was working too hard. My neighbor still laughs every time when he tells this story... "it took some getting used to, but eventually I managed to work as slowly as my coworkers"

[Alex69]

seriously guys in greece, burn the parlament down, fuck it burn everything down - crash the euro - i am being paied in usd, living in europe and praying for eur to crash 24/7

what are you waiting for? get your fat ass up and do some shit!

[Brujah]

Originally Posted by u-Bob

state owned companies = companies that have no incentive to keep their customers happy because they get paid anyway (with tax dollars/euros).

One of my neighbors is a 70+ year old guy who used to work for a state owned company for over 20 years. During summer he comes by every now and then to drop off some vegetables from his garden. One story he has told me many times is how, after he had gotten a job in a state owned company after having worked in a privately owned company, his new boss complained to him about how he was doing his job. His boss in the state owned company complained that he was finishing his tasks too quickly. He complained that he was working too hard. My neighbor still laughs every time when he tells this story... "it took some getting used to, but eventually I managed to work as slowly as my coworkers"

Sounds like my years in the U.S. Military.

[BIGTYMER]

Just let it fail. Opa!

[BAKO]

Originally Posted by boneprone

The major problem I see with Greece is with its women.
In their younger years they are the most exotic and beautiful women on the planet. When they get older bam. They literally turn into balloons!

This is the main situation in Greece that is bad and should be discussed.

Omfg lol

[EddyTheDog]

The same shit is happening in Spain - I would like it to be corruption, it would mean at least the money was around locally, but to be honest they couldn't get it together to be corrupt.

I have been here for nearly 2 years and have filled in more forms than you can imagine and I still have not got the number I need to pay taxes!

My step father is in a similar situation and he sent them money from the sale of a house because he is an honest person - They sent it back!