A quickie, 1 night stand or a relationship?

[Paul Markham]

Thanks to Simon for the idea to explain what porn should be. IMO

Do we sell porn, that's like a quick fuck up against the wall. Quick easy and instantly forgotten, until you tell your mate "I've had her."

Or do they have the power to keep you going for a while but you want to see the back of her in the morning?

Or something special we want to keep for a while?

And if we want to sell a months membership retaining, what do we need to do that. A movie for a quick wank or something with more appeal that keeps more members longer. Apart from size and ease?

Well for a quickie or a one night stand, today they have Tubes and looking at the quality of porn.com I can see this market is going to fall even faster. Most paysites have little more to offer than HD, screen size and definition. Clearly not enough for 99.99% of consumers and that's a conservative %.

Can paysites offer something more today, can they create it and can they afford it?

Let's think of some options.

[DamianJ]

I think we should spend more on content to increase retention and stop giving away free porn.

What do you think Paul?

[MaDalton]

you guys should get ICQ ;)

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

you guys should get ICQ ;)

I had to block him. He went batshit crazy on it.

But to be fair, this is an interesting thread and a topic Paul hasn't posted about before.

[CaptainHowdy]

[Eyeball]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Well for a quickie or a one night stand, today they have Tubes

That's more like a sneaky wank. The the quickie is the paysite that you log into when the wife is out playing bingo.

[seeandsee]

we need better laws so content dont popup as user upload...

[TheDoc]

Paul, how many new / unique affiliates or site owners, have you contacted today, to promote your paysites and program?

Zero you say?

Well.. how about yesterday, last week, last month, or over this last year?

Zero you say?

Ohhhhhhh that explains SOOOOOOOOOOOO much.

[PR_Glen]

Some people like the fast food of porn, some people like the upscale restaurant variety. Both venues make money...

Porn is an impulse buy, nobody wants a 'relationship' with their snickers bar...

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

Some people like the fast food of porn, some people like the upscale restaurant variety. Both venues make money...

Porn is an impulse buy, nobody wants a 'relationship' with their snickers bar...

Yes, great if you're running a free Tube and that's your future.

No bloody use if your business is paysites and retaining members.

Glen, hit me up on ICQ and chat for a while. After all my years adapting in the porn business I may have an idea for you.

Will it work, can you do it. I believe yes to both answers.

[theking]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

So dumb, you have to think he's kidding. But not smart enough to pull off such an elaborate plan to look so dumb all the time... so he you're thinking that he can't be kidding. Then you think back quite a few years and you're thinking "yeah, actually he was always like this but it was just about other shit like politics, it was only after all his business completely tanked did he start babbling about tubes and why porn is a dead business and only he knows how to make money in porn".

He's always saying shit that no sane person can believe and so clearly speaking about things he knows nothing about, so you even though you know better, you still keep thinking "no one is this stupid"... but he's clearly not intelligent enough to pull off such an elaborate plan to consistently look so retarded just to wind people up, so you know that logically, he has to be this stupid... but its a sort of stupid that's just so deep, so profound and so unwavering no matter what facts are presented, that you are still thinking he can't be serious even as you start to realize he actually is.

The guy comes here to this forum to beg for money, admits his wife has to work to help pay the bills, his business is a joke, he lives off the government/pensions, not porn... but lectures non stop about how to make money in porn.

Such an epic mind fuck from the best accidental troll ever. A troll that's so dumb, he doesn't even know he's trolling... he actually thinks he's proving points and making sense. It's a stupid that runs so deep, a stupid that's so pure, that you kinda have to admire it in a way.

Clueless is as clueless does.

[O MARINA]

Misleading title. Ban please.

[O MARINA]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Thanks to Simon for the idea to explain what porn should be.

Thanks Simon (whoever you are) for another winning thread.

[Paul Markham]

So here's an idea for paysites. Don't flame it without thinking, ask yourself "How can I make it work?".

We know multi girl sites work if done right. Same goes for Solo Girl sites if the girl is right and works it.

The problem with Multi Girl sites is the member has little to hook onto, it's often just a pile of scenes.

The problem with Solo Girl sites is a limited audience, the surfer has to like this girl or he doesn't bother and even when he does like her, attention span makes him bored faster than Multi Girl sites. Plus tying your site into one porn model isn't always the brightest move. She can be a sweetheart, more likely she'll turn into a pain in the ass the moment she gets a new boyfriend.

So combine the benefits of both.

It will need a couple of decent shooters. Who can find girls ideally or got very good contacts with agents.

Do castings if at all possible, promise the girls work on the casting. Shoot a test scene of them, to see how good they are.

Shoot a girl who is good on her casting for a day, in a progression of scenes. Not the formula we have today of rushing from room to room to get in the required length of video and number of stills. Make the scenes run together, can be a story line or not. It has to present more than a girl on a sofa.

You now have 2 or 3 scenes of the girl solo of BG or GG. From her first day.

She's not to be the usual dumb porn star on auto pilot trotting out the same phrases, the scenes are her and her scenes. If she works well book her again, very well again and again. Those you're not sure of, let members vote on her not the scene.

Let the good girls float to the top, more content of them, more about them and inter action with members. Scenes are in a progression and not limited to the normal porn on a bed/sofa scenes.

A good way to bring it across is like I brought Sandra across in the scene I did for Manwin.

Each girl will be different, try to get the girls BTS and as real as possible. Let them talk in their own words. Let their character come out. This is why it's good to do castings and tests. Some girls simply don't have what it takes. They get 1-2 scenes and that's it, just add ons to the site.

The site is really about the top girls. The number of them is governed not by some "Web" guy who thinks 5 or 10 would be the right number. It's by the number of girls who can carry the load.

If it's American girls and they all live in different States, then this part will only work a few times a year. Mass orgy with all the featured girls or most, in the scene. Couple of shooters capturing the action.

The site can have solo, GG and BG in it. If a girl only does solo she will have to be top drawer, also GG a little less, BG would be good or the site can be in 1 or 2 or 3 strengths. Obviously it has to stay within it's niche and style, like all sites.

If membership and retention is as good as some tell me it is with online sites, then getting the girls to do live webcam is no problem. It only needs a decent membership. Then the site offers, web cam, chat, live shows.

Promotion wold be on a different level. soft for Youtube, 1 or 10 girls in a clip. shows with the girls turning up, might get some TV coverage at these. And of course all the normal promoting.

Benefits are obvious, still a "featured girl" site, like solo. Yet not limiting to one girl. The girls who don't make it are the ones stacked up like a normal site. If one girl decides to quit, who cares the site still has lots of others. Girls are in control

What it needs is decent shooters and directors who can get the girls to reveal themselves like a solo site girl should. Pick the right girls on a casting and shot her well. Shouldn't cost much more than a site today does.

Glen is right, some do like up market. All we have to do is present it. Up Market in porn isn't the definition of the video. It's the porn in the content.

If we only sell impulse buy today, we're stuck. Impulse in impulse out. Like a top class restaurant we need to make surfer swant to buy and want to stay. Loading another cloned scene isn't good enough 2011. That's the fast food business.

[Paul Markham]

Not even a snide remark and bump from one of my trolls.

[epitome]

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by epitome

At least my record has a song to sing.

The problem with you guys is I think of the future. You just think of the past. Because that's where your ideas come from.

[papill0n]

[Paul Markham]

Shap is now playing my broken record. A paysite only selling recorded videos is going no where.

Everyone thinks it's a great idea, except a few fools, even the "phrase "out of the box thinking" has been used.

The problem with you guys is you read the nick first, decide if it's good or bad and then post. The actual message is secondary.

So far no one has asked Shap the question I get thrown at me all the time. "So why didn't you do it?"

Which for Shap he has no reply like I did. He had no other irons in the fire.

[theking]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Shap is now playing my broken record. A paysite only selling recorded videos is going no where.

Everyone thinks it's a great idea, except a few fools, even the "phrase "out of the box thinking" has been used.

The problem with you guys is you read the nick first, decide if it's good or bad and then post. The actual message is secondary.

So far no one has asked Shap the question I get thrown at me all the time. "So why didn't you do it?"

Which for Shap he has no reply like I did. He had no other irons in the fire.

People may be influenced by the advice of someone like Shap that has a successful online track record...but people will not be influenced by the advice of someone like you who has an online track record of failure.

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

So dumb, you have to think he's kidding. But not smart enough to pull off such an elaborate plan to look so dumb all the time... so he you're thinking that he can't be kidding. Then you think back quite a few years and you're thinking "yeah, actually he was always like this but it was just about other shit like politics, it was only after all his business completely tanked did he start babbling about tubes and why porn is a dead business and only he knows how to make money in porn".

He's always saying shit that no sane person can believe and so clearly speaking about things he knows nothing about, so you even though you know better, you still keep thinking "no one is this stupid"... but he's clearly not intelligent enough to pull off such an elaborate plan to consistently look so retarded just to wind people up, so you know that logically, he has to be this stupid... but its a sort of stupid that's just so deep, so profound and so unwavering no matter what facts are presented, that you are still thinking he can't be serious even as you start to realize he actually is.

The guy comes here to this forum to beg for money, admits his wife has to work to help pay the bills, his business is a joke, he lives off the government/pensions, not porn... but lectures non stop about how to make money in porn.

Such an epic mind fuck from the best accidental troll ever. A troll that's so dumb, he doesn't even know he's trolling... he actually thinks he's proving points and making sense. It's a stupid that runs so deep, a stupid that's so pure, that you kinda have to admire it in a way.

Clueless is as clueless does.

[Kolargol]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Most paysites have little more to offer than HD, screen size and definition. Clearly not enough for 99.99% of consumers and that's a conservative %.

Can paysites offer something more today, can they create it and can they afford it?

What about your paysites? Do you think outside the box?

[martinsc]

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

At least my record has a song to sing.

The problem with you guys is I think of the future. You just think of the past. Because that's where your ideas come from.

That's all you do... think. You don't actually do anything to know what works and doesn't work in 2011. All you do is gripe about the day porn came online (inevitable) and blame your own failure on what can't be undone.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Kolargol

What about your paysites? Do you think outside the box?

Yes. I do. I thought of coming to Czech to shoot, coming online and opening a store.

And if you look at Astral Blue and realise in those days everyone was shooting girls silent and no one had them talking to the viewer like I did. That was out of the box then. Well I never saw anyone else doing it. Even selling photos via mail order was fairly new in those days.

The reason I never did what I say is going to work today. Has been said many many times.

Girls here are beautiful and can't speak English. So do you think it would work with girls who can't talk English and come across as another plastic model?

So go home and lose the lucrative business we had, leave Eva and our young child, or keep on making money here?

This is what I was doing in 1990. See how each girl comes across as herself?

Victoria is brand new and never shot before. She had bags of confidence.

Ayesha only interested in fucking.

Fluer nervous and shows it.

Fluer 1 hour later, confident as hell.

Each girl comes across as herself. Like in the Sandra video, yes a few girls here now speak English well enough.

This for it's time was new. Well I had never seen it before. It works on solo girl sites and will work on Multi Girl sites. Porn has not changed that much.

This is real amateur porn. Not amateur photographer, amateur models.

Today with online it could be taken to a new level.

A Tube video will get 10,000s of views in a few days. So sell the "GIRL not another recorded porn scene of her.

[papill0n]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Shap is now playing my broken record. A paysite only selling recorded videos is going no where.

Everyone thinks it's a great idea, except a few fools, even the "phrase "out of the box thinking" has been used.

The problem with you guys is you read the nick first, decide if it's good or bad and then post. The actual message is secondary.

So far no one has asked Shap the question I get thrown at me all the time. "So why didn't you do it?"

Which for Shap he has no reply like I did. He had no other irons in the fire.

youre a fucking idiot. shap has had a sucessful paysite - YOU FUCKING HAVENT

you see the difference there paul ???????

his comments are based on experience - something also known as reality paul

your comments paul are based on your vivid imagination.

are you unable to see the difference paul ??

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by papill0n

youre a fucking idiot. shap has had a sucessful paysite - YOU FUCKING HAVENT

you see the difference there paul ???????

his comments are based on experience - something also known as reality paul

your comments paul are based on your vivid imagination.

are you unable to see the difference paul ??

And that makes us saying the same thing, right in his case and wrong in mine. OK I see it clearly now.

My imagination is coming up with more than yours ever will.

Actually Mutt has given a reason it won't work, his idea and mine. It's too expensive.

I've known this from the beginning of coming into online porn with the content stores.

After the huge costs of traffic, running the site and profit, there never was much left for the product. That's why today programs are opening their own Tube sites, they're cheaper than affiliates and probably a better option.

Over the 11 years I sold direct to paysites the same message came across. They were never able to pay decent money for the product. Great little extra earner from a store after it's earned money sold to offline. But going 100% online as a content store or shooting custom and a store. .

Online for all the talk about how much money it was making, suddenly had small pockets when it came to the product.

Perfect Gonzo had a great shooter and the site sold. When he went to the DVD market he never came back. Programs were all asking for similar content, that wasn't exceptional, good but not exceptional. Problem was when given the quote they all declined. Not just me, every time.

Same with Party Hardcore.

Vid Viscious is one of the best online shooters, went to DVD and never came back.

Same with offline shooters. They earned absolute minimum $1,000 from a magazine sale on a solo girl set. They still own. ATK, Karups, Mayers Money and many many others wanted us to shoot an exclusive set and video for $300 to $500.

So you ended up pushing sites full of content from shooters who couldn't sell at a better level. And it hurt retention and conversions.

Because they were paying you 50% + giving you everything you need, to build a reason to not spend money on porn online.

See how fucked up that is?

Paying you 10% telling you, this is what you have to promote the sites, now go and work. Would of cut out all the dross from the affiliates areas. It would not of meant 1 less surfer. Those who could survive would make big bucks. Little guys who have to suck off the tit of sponsors would die, well there shouldn't be a tit to suck on.

Now I know what you're going to say.

"And we would of sent our traffic to those paying the most."

And they would of had to put that cost into the cost of a join and customers aren't stupid. They would soon see a site charging $30 is no better than 1 costing $20. Especially if sites start telling them why some charge $30.

Your only excuse is "It's to late to cry over spilt milk." Doesn't make the idiot who knocked the bottle off the table innocent or any brighter.

Still I'm retired and can live out the rest of my life in comfort. You have to keep working to pay your rent.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Shap is now playing my broken record. A paysite only selling recorded videos is going no where.

Everyone thinks it's a great idea, except a few fools, even the "phrase "out of the box thinking" has been used.

The problem with you guys is you read the nick first, decide if it's good or bad and then post. The actual message is secondary.

So far no one has asked Shap the question I get thrown at me all the time. "So why didn't you do it?"

Which for Shap he has no reply like I did. He had no other irons in the fire.

I answered it. There is a long answer and short answer. Long answer is in the thread you asked me. The short answer is because I was making so much money with GayTube.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Shap

I answered it. There is a long answer and short answer. Long answer is in the thread you asked me. The short answer is because I was making so much money with GayTube.

Same boat me and Eva were in.

[raymor]

What we need is another "talking crap, to and from Paul Markham" thread. TheDoc, since you're a real businessman, am I right that you have many more important things to do and to discuss?

[MaxCandy]

Paul how much time do you spend of GFY?

[Jakez]

Step 1. Create a successful paysite.
Step 2. Lecture others on how to make a successful paysite.

[nico-t]

i would like you to post in the style of a quickie. Those huge essays you keep writing do not interest anyone and do not get read by anyone but the people with absolutely no life.

[AdultKing]

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by raymor

What we need is another "talking crap, to and from Paul Markham" thread. TheDoc, since you're a real businessman, am I right that you have many more important things to do and to discuss?

As the industry spirals down. It's a pity no one else has a solution to it.

[marlboroack]

All females are my girlfriends.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by raymor

What we need is another "talking crap, to and from Paul Markham" thread. TheDoc, since you're a real businessman, am I right that you have many more important things to do and to discuss?

More important? That depends on the day and time, I guess.

I would love to discuss more important or fulfilling topics but very rarely do we get those type of topics, and I'm not much of a thread starter, so have at it... and I'll jump in!