CNN: Former CIA operative skeptical on allegations of Iranian Plot

[wehateporn]

I've heard people saying "It's to create a distraction from Occupy Wall Street and make the people unite against an outside enemy", so let's hear how a former CIA operative sees it.

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....-iranian-plot/

Questions from former CIA operative Baer about the alleged Iranian plot

I just spoke with former CIA operative Bob Baer who expressed his skepticism about the allegation that Iran was behind the plot to kill the Saudi Ambassador to the U.S. Robert Baer is a former Middle East CIA field officer and TIME.com's intelligence columnist. He is also the author of See No Evil, The Devil We Know and The Company We Keep. Here's what he had to say:

"There are very few groups operationally better than Iran?s Quds Force. They know what they are doing. The only proxies they use are ones they?ve vetted. They don?t get their own citizens get involved. They send other people to do it for them from Hezbollah to Bosnian Muslims. It would be completely uncharacteristic for Iran to be caught red handed."

"So why were they all of a sudden so sloppy? Why would they take this risk now? Who cares about Saudi Ambassador to the U.S. Ali Jaber, anyway? He?s not a royal. He?s probably not the main interlocutor between the United States and Saudi Arabia. Why not go for Saudi Prince Bandar in London? Many other targets would serve Iranian interests better."

"Everybody is looking for evidence that there is going to be a confrontation with Iran. Everybody is jumping on this as a sign of conflict to come. But there are many questions here that need to be answered."

[porno jew]

i agree the whole "plot" smells like bullshit and conveniently appears just in time as america is beginning to feel some real social unrest.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by porno jew

i agree the whole "plot" smells like bullshit and conveniently appears just in time as america is beginning to feel some real social unrest.

Oh the plot was real. It just wasn't sanctioned by the Iranian government. Just some moron thinking he'd score points with Iran. If some Catholic bombs an abortion clinic in Alabama I'm not going to blame the Vatican.

[Nembrionic]

I always find it funny how people try to debunk a story because one person with SEEMINGLY a certain credibility says things are otherwise.

Ever considered that one person could also be wrong? But oooooooooh "he's ex-CIA so he must be speaking the truth!"


disclaimer: I'm not saying there's a plot, I'm not saying there isn't a plot.

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by Nembrionic

I always find it funny how people try to debunk a story because one person with SEEMINGLY a certain credibility says things are otherwise.

Ever considered that one person could also be wrong? But oooooooooh "he's ex-CIA so he must be speaking the truth!"


disclaimer: I'm not saying there's a plot, I'm not saying there isn't a plot.

I find it funny that people doubt anything and everything the government says... then someone from government (from the one department whose sole job revolves around lies and deceit) says something they want to hear and suddenly it's gospel.

Logic would dictate that you don't give credibility to a career liar.

[seeandsee]

THEY WILL ATTACK iRAN ON MANY LVLS BEFORE INVASION... :d THAT WILL COME ONE DAY

[Nembrionic]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I find it funny that people doubt anything and everything the government says... then someone from government (from the one department whose sole job revolves around lies and deceit) says something they want to hear and suddenly it's gospel.

Logic would dictate that you don't give credibility to a career liar.

[Overload]

lets face it - they need a new war ... i really feel sorry for the US folks ... isnt it a pain in the ass to be living in fear DAY IN AND DAY OUT? 24/7/365?! geez ...

[Nembrionic]

Originally Posted by Overload

lets face it - they need a new war ... i really feel sorry for the US folks ... isnt it a pain in the ass to be living in fear DAY IN AND DAY OUT? 24/7/365?! geez ...

lol what? That's the dumbest shit I've heard so far today.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Overload

lets face it - they need a new war ... i really feel sorry for the US folks ... isnt it a pain in the ass to be living in fear DAY IN AND DAY OUT? 24/7/365?! geez ...

Yes, almost as painful as living under a tinfoil hat 24/7/365.

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by porno jew

i agree the whole "plot" smells like bullshit and conveniently appears just in time as america is beginning to feel some real social unrest.

This is so true, whenever there is social unrest we have to be cautious of what appears in the news.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by Nembrionic

lol what? That's the dumbest shit I've heard so far today.

then you must be mainly deaf ...

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Oh the plot was real. It just wasn't sanctioned by the Iranian government. Just some moron thinking he'd score points with Iran. If some Catholic bombs an abortion clinic in Alabama I'm not going to blame the Vatican.

Good point there, we always have to ask the question "Who Benefits?". In this case Iran isn't like the Soviet Union who once were a hugely powerful enemy of the USA; Iran cannot benefit from this. They know that they cannot compete at the same level as the US, they know there are many people who want an excuse for the US to attack them, they do not want to create a reason that will be used to speed up this process.

[Nembrionic]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

then you must be mainly deaf ...

Nah, I hear so much shit every day, they could make a Southpark episode about it.

But this one jumps out. And the day has only just begun so there's high hopes of "better shit"

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I find it funny that people doubt anything and everything the government says... then someone from government (from the one department whose sole job revolves around lies and deceit) says something they want to hear and suddenly it's gospel.

Logic would dictate that you don't give credibility to a career liar.

I agree for the most part but you have to admit the timing of this one is a little suspect.. It's not like Iran would come out and openly admit to anything if they did indeed try an assassination attempt, but at the end of the day what would they benefit from such a move is the important question here, and the answer is just about nothing and it would only be bad for them.

As for ex cia agents you do have to take what they say with a grain of salt too. Some of them are ethical human beings as the rest of us and feel compelled to inform the public of something they believe is wrong. However we must remember that even high level cia operatives are not informed of the whole story, often something they would have to piece something together on their own, which leaves huge gaps for error. Secondly there are also ex ops who want to sell a lot of books and retire comfortably. Those books sell well whether they are true or fabricated so if this person has a book coming out soon it would explain a lot.

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by Nembrionic

I always find it funny how people try to debunk a story because one person with SEEMINGLY a certain credibility says things are otherwise.

Ever considered that one person could also be wrong? But oooooooooh "he's ex-CIA so he must be speaking the truth!"


disclaimer: I'm not saying there's a plot, I'm not saying there isn't a plot.

There are many people who have obsevered patterns in recent world events; the patterns fit in with an alleged agenda. Once someone is confident that they know the agenda, they will draw their own conclusions on what they see in the news, especially if it fits in with the perceived agenda. It can be difficult for these people to get their point across without describing many years of history/observation, but when a former CIA operative comes out and says he is skeptical too, sharing this information will be far more effective in encouraging people to question what they've been told. People are more likely to listen to Bob Baer than they are to a random Tin Foil Hat guy (like me) on a forum.

[porno jew]

think this is connected.

http://www.itwire.com/science-news/s...key-into-space

the rabbit hole runs deep ....

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by porno jew

think this is connected.

http://www.itwire.com/science-news/s...key-into-space

the rabbit hole runs deep ....

there are many ways to take that..lol
i guess the easiest is that they failed to get the rocket into space.

another is they succeeded but the monkey was cooked to a crisp from radiation

[MaDalton]

"weapons of mass destruction" anyone?

[Caligari]

Skeptical of Iranian plot? come on thats absurd;)
http://politics.salon.com/2011/09/29/fbi_terror/

[TheSquealer]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

I agree for the most part but you have to admit the timing of this one is a little suspect.. It's not like Iran would come out and openly admit to anything if they did indeed try an assassination attempt, but at the end of the day what would they benefit from such a move is the important question here, and the answer is just about nothing and it would only be bad for them.

If you are paranoid, the timing of every event, everywhere, worldwide, is suspect and obviously connected to [insert conspiracy of the day here].



I can speak from experience when I say that it is never beneficial to ask "why" in these sorts of matters. Even when you're involved directly on the ground, you'll never get concrete answers unless enough solid, credible intelligence is gathered analyzed and thoroughly investigated. The bad thing about people sneaking around and doing sneaky shit is just that.. they are sneaking around and doing sneaky shit... always working hard to conceal the answer to the only question that matters - "why".

Not saying there is or isn't a good answer or that it isn't known by those who need to know, i'm just saying it's the most difficult and often most futile question to attempt to ask and attempt to answer. Particularly when each single event is part of a much larger, far reaching, long term plan to achieve an objective over a span of years like destabilizing a government or economy or political system and one that is not directly dependent on any single event.

[Rochard]

Because clearly everyone trusts someone who is "former" CIA....

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Overload

i really feel sorry for the US folks ... isnt it a pain in the ass to be living in fear DAY IN AND DAY OUT? 24/7/365?! geez ...

Looks like your government has you fooled. We know the war is about oil and we know what the real plan is. What you see is excitement gearing up for another battle, not fear

[Lucy - CSC]

They have been vilifying Iran for ages now to get the people to support an invasion so they can steal the oil.

Yet another war for Israel, Oil and the Central Banks.

[_Richard_]

bottom line: assassination plot that costs 1.5 million bucks?

yea right.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by Rochard

Because clearly everyone trusts someone who is "former" CIA....

Rochard, do you trust the information contained in the book Ghost Wars? It's a book that I know you've read, because you posted about it here, and if I recall correctly, you were of the opinion that it was a pretty good read.

If you did trust the information in that book....well, guess what? The sources for the book were largely ex-CIA, and included the aforementioned Bob Baer, former Peshawar station chief Milton Bearden (whom Baer and other officers sometimes refer to affectionately as "Uncle Milty"), Mike Scheuer and Gary Schoen, among many others.

Whether you 'trust' them or not, it stands to reason that the only place you could conceivably get reliable information about the covert work done by the CIA is from people who either currently work for that agency, used to work for it, or who have received briefings from such people (like the President, and to a much lesser extent, members of congressional committees tasked with overseeing the CIA).

Personally, I think Bob Baer has pretty strong credentials with respect to Iran. Among other things, he spent a lot of time working in Lebanon during the 80s, and was smack in the middle of the CIA's investigation into Hezbollah's kidnapping of Beirut station chief Bill Buckley in 1984. On the other hand, I don't believe Baer is infallible, or that his opinions are sacrosanct. So, while I'm definitely not going to dismiss his opinion out of hand, I'm not going to simply accept it as the end-all, be-all perspective on the subject, either.

At the end of the day, intelligence work is really a very murky business. Much of what is "known," even by the case officers who investigate it, is really just "passionately believed." Intelligence collection and analysis isn't an exact science, even for those most directly involved, and it sure as hell isn't something that can be discussed with categorical assurance by a bunch of 'outsiders' like those of us who populate this forum.

I've actually interviewed two ex-CIA officers myself. The funny thing is that I didn't know that's what they were at the time of the interviews; I interviewed them in the context of their new/current jobs, and only ran across the fact that they were ex-CIA years later. One of them is Chuck Joyner, the head of the FBI's 2257 inspection team.

So... let the conspiracy theories about Chuck, the porn industry, and the CIA begin, I guess. ;-)

[JFK]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

"weapons of mass destruction" anyone?

has the earmarks of a false flag op

[fuckyou/payme]

I find it funny that I get duped into reading these threads over lunch when I never watch the news by you lazy useless morons, fuck you

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Quentin

Rochard, do you trust the information contained in the book Ghost Wars? It's a book that I know you've read, because you posted about it here, and if I recall correctly, you were of the opinion that it was a pretty good read.

If you did trust the information in that book....well, guess what? The sources for the book were largely ex-CIA, and included the aforementioned Bob Baer, former Peshawar station chief Milton Bearden (whom Baer and other officers sometimes refer to affectionately as "Uncle Milty"), Mike Scheuer and Gary Schoen, among many others.

Whether you 'trust' them or not, it stands to reason that the only place you could conceivably get reliable information about the covert work done by the CIA is from people who either currently work for that agency, used to work for it, or who have received briefings from such people (like the President, and to a much lesser extent, members of congressional committees tasked with overseeing the CIA).

Personally, I think Bob Baer has pretty strong credentials with respect to Iran. Among other things, he spent a lot of time working in Lebanon during the 80s, and was smack in the middle of the CIA's investigation into Hezbollah's kidnapping of Beirut station chief Bill Buckley in 1984. On the other hand, I don't believe Baer is infallible, or that his opinions are sacrosanct. So, while I'm definitely not going to dismiss his opinion out of hand, I'm not going to simply accept it as the end-all, be-all perspective on the subject, either.

At the end of the day, intelligence work is really a very murky business. Much of what is "known," even by the case officers who investigate it, is really just "passionately believed." Intelligence collection and analysis isn't an exact science, even for those most directly involved, and it sure as hell isn't something that can be discussed with categorical assurance by a bunch of 'outsiders' like those of us who populate this forum.

I've actually interviewed two ex-CIA officers myself. The funny thing is that I didn't know that's what they were at the time of the interviews; I interviewed them in the context of their new/current jobs, and only ran across the fact that they were ex-CIA years later. One of them is Chuck Joyner, the head of the FBI's 2257 inspection team.

So... let the conspiracy theories about Chuck, the porn industry, and the CIA begin, I guess. ;-)

I do remember reading that book; I still have it.

I tend to trust books more than I do anything I'll read on line, but still even with books I read them with a grain of salt. It's hard to figure out when people have an agenda.

As for the CIA, I'd never trust anyone from the CIA. Right out of the gate part of their job is dis-information. Factor in that someone is ten years removed from the CIA, and.... Doesn't have direct access to top secret information anymore.... Makes his opinions just that - opinions. Granted, he's a lot more qualified than me to talk about Iran.

The one thing that gets me... Is why would anyone pay $1.5 mil to have someone killed? And why would you hire a Mexican cartel member in the United States to do it? Something is off here.

[MediaGuy]

Apparently it wasn't an assassination plot until after this guy contacted the FBI drug-cartel agent who incited him to go that route.

Anthony Shaffer in this clip says there's no intelligence on the link to Iran from his "inside guy" at the DoJ.

And the Mexican cartel link is interesting considering the whole "Fast and Furious" gun-smuggling operation that has Eric Holder in hot water.



:D

[Coup]

This is clearly a disinformation campaigned waged by the CIA. they are trying to incite the population in order to justify violence. then they will declare martial law and round us up in FEMA camps.

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I do remember reading that book; I still have it.

I tend to trust books more than I do anything I'll read on line, but still even with books I read them with a grain of salt. It's hard to figure out when people have an agenda.

As for the CIA, I'd never trust anyone from the CIA. Right out of the gate part of their job is dis-information. Factor in that someone is ten years removed from the CIA, and.... Doesn't have direct access to top secret information anymore.... Makes his opinions just that - opinions. Granted, he's a lot more qualified than me to talk about Iran.

The one thing that gets me... Is why would anyone pay $1.5 mil to have someone killed? And why would you hire a Mexican cartel member in the United States to do it? Something is off here.

Yep, I agree the idea of Iran involving a proxy in Mexico really doesn't make a lot of sense. Baer is far from the only member of the intelligence community (active or otherwise) to call that aspect of the alleged plot into question over the last 24 hours.

I hear you on the not trusting members of the CIA, and your skepticism there is definitely sensible. I just figure that when it comes to matters CIA, your options for whom to believe fall into the categories of "bad" and "worse." Baer might be a bad source, but IMO, people further removed from the internal machinations of the intelligence community are worse.

(Worst of all, of course, are the ones who are "ex-CIA" in their own deluded minds, only. Unfortunately, the bookstore shelves are packed with work from that sort of nimrod, too.)

[Adult Insider Dave]

This whole thing has been fishy. "Iran is going to bring their Navy off our coast". Yeah, right.

[wehateporn]

Originally Posted by Adult Insider Dave

This whole thing has been fishy. "Iran is going to bring their Navy off our coast". Yeah, right.

That was one crazy story

[V_RocKs]

the sky is falling