No one wanted to really BUY MUSIC? but we did because iTunes made it Easy. - GoFuckYourself.com

rock-reed · 10-19-2011, 01:00 AM

No one wanted to really BUY MUSIC? but we did because iTunes made it Easy.

When will a REAL/legit micropayments system come up for Porn?

One that doesn't fuck over people, one that is just as easy as iTunes.

Please post titties and discuss.

DamianJ · 10-19-2011, 01:13 AM

I've been saying that for YEARS.

You are quite right. Everyone says the porn companies won't work together. But everyone said that about the music companies until Jobs persuaded them all.

I guess we don't have a Jobs in this industry.

Neither does anyone else now.

kane · 10-19-2011, 01:17 AM

Isn't that what sites like Clips 4 Sale are doing? You find the video you want and buy just it and nothing more or is the average cost of those videos too high to be considered a micro-payment?

DamianJ · 10-19-2011, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

Isn't that what sites like Clips 4 Sale are doing? You find the video you want and buy just it and nothing more or is the average cost of those videos too high to be considered a micro-payment?

It's not as EASY though, is it? No 'iTunes' for porn, no integration with your other devices, no RSS, no one click buy, etc etc. And yes, indeed, not really micro.

kane · 10-19-2011, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

It's not as EASY though, is it? No 'iTunes' for porn, no integration with your other devices, no RSS, no one click buy, etc etc. And yes, indeed, not really micro.

When you put it like that, you are 100% right. It would be cool to have some kind of interface/software like iTunes where you could browse the clips and/or pics you want, select them and buy them with one click and download them. If there was enough content in a system like that it could work.

Paul Markham · 10-19-2011, 03:02 AM

It's already possible. Set the price on a biller at $1 a day. and let the member buy the number of days he wants.

Then tell affiliates.

In the real world, memberships cost the sponsors $10-15 a month, approx. The other $15-20 goes in marketing and profit. Affiliates simply will not send traffic to a micro payments site in the numbers required.

The $30 a month price is set for a reason and it has nothing to do with the product.

nextri · 10-19-2011, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It's already possible. Set the price on a biller at $1 a day. and let the member buy the number of days he wants.

Then tell affiliates.

In the real world, memberships cost the sponsors $10-15 a month, approx. The other $15-20 goes in marketing and profit. Affiliates simply will not send traffic to a micro payments site in the numbers required.

The $30 a month price is set for a reason and it has nothing to do with the product.

That's not the same thing at all. The user would still need to thrust every shady paysite out there with his credit card details, and personal information. What itunes does, is let you only have to give your details to one company (apple), and be able to buy individual content from any producer/artist in the world, with one click.
Something similar and as easy, doesn't exist for porn.

ArsewithClass · 10-19-2011, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rock-reed

No one wanted to really BUY MUSIC? but we did because iTunes made it Easy.

When will a REAL/legit micropayments system come up for Porn?

One that doesn't fuck over people, one that is just as easy as iTunes.

Please post titties and discuss.

The structure has been made different by the porn companies from the start of the net. We have our own affiliate domains & sell our own content.

You do'nt see emi with a site selling their own music but you do playboy, or is this what you are saying, that there is no weekly "top of the pops" where all producers would put their footage forward for that week?

Paul Markham · 10-19-2011, 03:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nextri

That's not the same thing at all. The user would still need to thrust every shady paysite out there with his credit card details, and personal information. What itunes does, is let you only have to give your details to one company (apple), and be able to buy individual content from any producer/artist in the world, with one click.
Something similar and as easy, doesn't exist for porn.

I think the trust issue is secondary.

The biggest problem is traffic.

There are many many ways to make membership to a site more affordable. The cost of traffic makes them mostly impossible. Maybe a Tube site can do it with their traffic and an upsell to buy a particular video or videos in full HD. so as people see something they like, they can drop it into a basket for 50 cents. 4 videos = $2

Do iTunes have a big affiliate program? Mind you mainstream doesn't pay 50% and does it give out lots of free music to promote selling music?

ArsewithClass · 10-19-2011, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nextri

That's not the same thing at all. The user would still need to thrust every shady paysite out there with his credit card details, and personal information. What itunes does, is let you only have to give your details to one company (apple), and be able to buy individual content from any producer/artist in the world, with one click.
Something similar and as easy, doesn't exist for porn.

Exactly where I was thinking from... One record to buy or the whole lot... In porn, the company sell from their own sites, in music, the record is sold from other outlets.

Kane's right that clip sites are on the similar "buy the scene you want". As Damian says, they lack what itunes offers. Maybe it's because there are so many outlets for porn?

BlackCrayon · 10-19-2011, 04:47 AM

.xxx says they are going to have some kind of micro-payment processing system. lolz.

DamianJ · 10-19-2011, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The biggest problem is traffic.

Traffic is easy to get though, according to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

There are many many ways to make membership to a site more affordable.

Yes, but the point is people don't want a membership, like they don't want an album.

Jesus, this is like explaining Facebook to my gran.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Do iTunes have a big affiliate program?

Yes. And they also spend millions on advertising, and they also give away software and they also sell hardware.

Have you ever even used iTunes?

Fletch XXX · 10-19-2011, 05:04 AM

comparing music to porn will never work.

TheDoc · 10-19-2011, 05:09 AM

VOD did it like Itues.... just per-minute.

Pink Visual's new file locker (no idea the url) is a little like that.

"IF" porn could be sold for $1-$2 per scene, and it sold in large enough volumes, like iTunes provides, then I would suspect it would work for us too. But.... we will never have an iTunes or anyone single corp that bills that much porn.

TheDoc · 10-19-2011, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I think the trust issue is secondary.

The biggest problem is traffic.

There are many many ways to make membership to a site more affordable. The cost of traffic makes them mostly impossible. Maybe a Tube site can do it with their traffic and an upsell to buy a particular video or videos in full HD. so as people see something they like, they can drop it into a basket for 50 cents. 4 videos = $2

Do iTunes have a big affiliate program? Mind you mainstream doesn't pay 50% and does it give out lots of free music to promote selling music?

Traffic is very easy part, good quality, converting, traffic, is all over the place. It's not easy if you have no idea wtf you're doing.... it is easy, once you do.

Yes, iTunes has an affiliate program.

Payout %'s in mainstream depend on profits and product costs, yes iTunes pays a much lower %, they only make like 40%, and give us 5% of the revenue earned, forever.

However I know of other products that pay 50% and more, on products that cost $100's of dollars. If the product has the margin to pay, they almost always do - just like in porn.

Yes, YouTube music is free and you can make money on it too... so yes, music is given away for free and sold right next to it.

DamianJ · 10-19-2011, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArsewithClass

You do'nt see emi with a site selling their own music

It's like you are criminally stupid sometimes.

http://www.shopemi.com/

DamianJ · 10-19-2011, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

comparing music to porn will never work.

I thought people were talking about getting an iTunes like model for porn, not comparing porn to music?

Maybe I missed the point of the thread?

iSpyCams · 10-19-2011, 07:32 AM

It won't work under the affiliate model. I think the #1 driving cost in adult website pricing is the affiliate's payout.

I think many sites would charge less and retain longer if they didn't have to pay affiliates.

But for most of them, with no affiliates there would be no joins, so unless you can get all the traffic you need without affiliates then it's a moot point.

DamianJ · 10-19-2011, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

It won't work under the affiliate model.

Which is just one reason why the current affiliate model is dying. If I can pay someone in-house to sit there posting on tumblr/facebook/blogs all day long, and then keep 100% of the sales that makes, that is a hell of a lot better than paying an aff 50% of the sales to do the same thing.

Clearly, there are some whale affiliates that in-house could never compete with, but for the main, it seems moving traffic generation in house is a very obvious way to save money. Esp in the EU where we also have to pay 20% VAT on every sale.

Paul Markham · 10-19-2011, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

It won't work under the affiliate model. I think the #1 driving cost in adult website pricing is the affiliate's payout.

I think many sites would charge less and retain longer if they didn't have to pay affiliates.

But for most of them, with no affiliates there would be no joins, so unless you can get all the traffic you need without affiliates then it's a moot point.

Agreed.

It will take a lot of traffic. An example. After showing a compressed FLV, the site sells the full res version @ $1.

Sell 1,000 a day = $1,000.

Assuming you can convert 1-100, this is silly but for an obvious reason. You need 100,000 surfers a day. Who will buy at 1-100. That's a lot of good quality traffic.

Now deduct costs, content, hosting, site building, site maintaining, billing, etc.

You need to really scratch your head on how you can get that much traffic at very low costs to make it pay. Yes you might get people buy 2-3 in a hit and lose them for a week.

iTunes is owned by Google? Or Apple.

Yes this is what online needs. But getting enough traffic to make it work is the stumbling block.

Fill a room with people on minimum wage, put Damian in charge of them and can they get that much good traffic?

Can a company afford to invest in a model like this?

Or just stick an ad on Porntube.

porno jew · 10-19-2011, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

comparing music to porn will never work.

i agree. two different markets totally. might as well compare porn and canned beans.

DamianJ · 10-19-2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Agreed.

It will take a lot of traffic. An example. After showing a compressed FLV, the site sells the full res version @ $1.

You don't know what iTunes is, do you, really?

Can you explain it in one sentence?

You are arguing against it, but what you are saying proves you don't understand what it even is!

porno jew · 10-19-2011, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

It won't work under the affiliate model. I think the #1 driving cost in adult website pricing is the affiliate's payout.

I think many sites would charge less and retain longer if they didn't have to pay affiliates.

But for most of them, with no affiliates there would be no joins, so unless you can get all the traffic you need without affiliates then it's a moot point.

nothing is stopping a program from having a variety of pricing structures. this isn't an either / or proposition. could have affiliate and non-affiliate models.

also re: the death of the affiliate model, since manwin has more traffic than any program has ever had and they still have an affiliate program, what does that say?

and it's not easy to generate and grow traffic. it's more an art than science. saying you can just hire some in house guy to do it and it will be all easy is stupid ... you sound like markham.

Barry-xlovecam · 10-19-2011, 08:06 AM

We have our own internal micropayment system -- each customer has his own wallet and buys cam shows at varying costs. e.g.; cam credits per minute.

There are and have been companies that offered "wallets." One that I remember offered micro payments for porn.

I forget their name now, it was 5 years ago ...

This is an easy idea to implement but so far no one has succeeded in marketing the service -- several people have already tried this and failed ...

You cannot run small transactions through processors and VISA-Net -- the transaction charges would kill your profit -- you need to "load" a wallet and make the purchase from that.

TheDoc · 10-19-2011, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

We have our own internal micropayment system -- each customer has his own wallet and buys cam shows at varying costs. e.g.; cam credits per minute.

There are and have been companies that offered "wallets." One that I remember offered micro payments for porn.

I forget their name now, it was 5 years ago ...

This is an easy idea to implement but so far no one has succeeded in marketing the service -- several people have already tried this and failed ...

You cannot run small transactions through processors and VISA-Net -- the transaction charges would kill your profit -- you need to "load" a wallet and make the purchase from that.

Oh yeah, cams as well.. I can't remember exactly but I think AVS's had something like this too.

We're setting up to do pre-loaded accounts, min of $20, so we can sell items for $1-$2 each. Even before an Affiliate, the processing alone kills the profit, then on once you stack them up per transaction, it's just not worth it without a pre-load. Good bit of extra work, but worth it on the right product(s).

96ukssob · 10-19-2011, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rock-reed

No one wanted to really BUY MUSIC? but we did because iTunes made it Easy.

When will a REAL/legit micropayments system come up for Porn?

One that doesn't fuck over people, one that is just as easy as iTunes.

Please post titties and discuss.

Clips4Sale has been doing this and seemed to be successful for them

troncarver · 10-19-2011, 08:41 AM

BaDoink is the itunes of porn and the netflix of porn

not quite there with micro payments but stand by ;)

DWB · 10-19-2011, 09:09 AM

Why sell it for $1 when you can just give it away? Selling it for $1 in an iTunes style system should have been tried pre-tubes, torrents, and cyber lockers. Maybe then it would have worked. Who knows, maybe it still could, but I have my doubts. Maybe it will happen down the road after someone spanks the ass of pirate sites.

Honestly, I wouldn't trust someone in porn just charging my card $1. I'd be afraid of multiple charges later. With iTunes, I know that is NOT going to happen, so I buy at will, and I buy often. Trust goes a long way with me, and unless it's on a known 3rd party biller for porn, I'm not giving any of you dick heads my credit card.

epitome · 10-19-2011, 11:19 AM

Paul Markham obviously doesn't understand jack shit about current technology.

FlexxAeon · 10-19-2011, 11:43 AM

micropayments can definitely work. ran a micropayment site for a while, based on "points" so it wasn't a $1 charge every time. wasn't wildly successful but it was profitable and would probably work great today (been debating on doing it again)

run of the mill porn doesn't really have a shot with micropayments today. as DWB said, this would have been a pre-tube implementation. the porn has to be unique - C4S is mostly popular due to it's high volume of fetish stuff.

Scott McD · 10-19-2011, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rock-reed

No one wanted to really BUY MUSIC? but we did because iTunes made it Easy.

Pity all music today is fucking SHIT mind you...

Barry-xlovecam · 10-19-2011, 12:57 PM

Maybe the music is shit but you can buy it by the turd instead of having to take the whole dump

(Currently Sober is warming up his seat :P)

DamianJ · 10-19-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

Paul Markham obviously doesn't understand jack shit about current technology.

I bet you 50 bucks he doesn't even have iTunes installed. He seems to be very confused about what it is.

DamianJ · 10-19-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlexxAeon

C4S is mostly popular due to it's high volume of fetish stuff.

Or because it isn't selling memberships no one wants anymore?

FlexxAeon · 10-19-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Or because it isn't selling memberships no one wants anymore?

well DUH

10-19-2011, 03:02 AM	#6
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	It's already possible. Set the price on a biller at $1 a day. and let the member buy the number of days he wants. Then tell affiliates. In the real world, memberships cost the sponsors $10-15 a month, approx. The other $15-20 goes in marketing and profit. Affiliates simply will not send traffic to a micro payments site in the numbers required. The $30 a month price is set for a reason and it has nothing to do with the product. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-19-2011, 04:47 AM	#11
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,631	.xxx says they are going to have some kind of micro-payment processing system. lolz. __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

10-19-2011, 05:04 AM	#13
Fletch XXX GFY HALL OF FAME DAMMIT!!! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: that 504 Posts: 60,840	comparing music to porn will never work. __________________ Want an Android App for your tube, membership, or free site? Need banners or promo material? Hit us up (ICQ Fletch: 148841377) or email me fletchxxx at gmail.com - recent work - About me

10-19-2011, 05:09 AM	#14
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	VOD did it like Itues.... just per-minute. Pink Visual's new file locker (no idea the url) is a little like that. "IF" porn could be sold for $1-$2 per scene, and it sold in large enough volumes, like iTunes provides, then I would suspect it would work for us too. But.... we will never have an iTunes or anyone single corp that bills that much porn. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

10-19-2011, 08:06 AM	#24
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	We have our own internal micropayment system -- each customer has his own wallet and buys cam shows at varying costs. e.g.; cam credits per minute. There are and have been companies that offered "wallets." One that I remember offered micro payments for porn. I forget their name now, it was 5 years ago ... This is an easy idea to implement but so far no one has succeeded in marketing the service -- several people have already tried this and failed ... You cannot run small transactions through processors and VISA-Net -- the transaction charges would kill your profit -- you need to "load" a wallet and make the purchase from that.

10-19-2011, 01:00 AM	#1
rock-reed Confirmed User Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,892	No one wanted to really BUY MUSIC? but we did because iTunes made it Easy. No one wanted to really BUY MUSIC? but we did because iTunes made it Easy. When will a REAL/legit micropayments system come up for Porn? One that doesn't fuck over people, one that is just as easy as iTunes. Please post titties and discuss. __________________ --- Ethnic niche? Black-Asian-Latina ? Contact me and lets talk traffic. rockreed@ that thing they call the google mail When you E-mail Me, PLZZZZ make the Subject Title: >>>>>> GFY! So I do not lose you in Spam.

10-19-2011, 01:13 AM	#2
DamianJ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A magical land Posts: 15,808	I've been saying that for YEARS. You are quite right. Everyone says the porn companies won't work together. But everyone said that about the music companies until Jobs persuaded them all. I guess we don't have a Jobs in this industry. Neither does anyone else now.

10-19-2011, 01:17 AM	#3
kane Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: portland, OR Posts: 20,684	Isn't that what sites like Clips 4 Sale are doing? You find the video you want and buy just it and nothing more or is the average cost of those videos too high to be considered a micro-payment?

10-19-2011, 07:32 AM	#18
iSpyCams Amateur Gynecologist Industry Role: Join Date: May 2009 Location: Medellin Posts: 4,436	It won't work under the affiliate model. I think the #1 driving cost in adult website pricing is the affiliate's payout. I think many sites would charge less and retain longer if they didn't have to pay affiliates. But for most of them, with no affiliates there would be no joins, so unless you can get all the traffic you need without affiliates then it's a moot point.

10-19-2011, 08:41 AM	#27
troncarver Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,584	BaDoink is the itunes of porn and the netflix of porn not quite there with micro payments but stand by ;) __________________ BADOINK.COM skype: troncarver

10-19-2011, 09:09 AM	#28
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	Why sell it for $1 when you can just give it away? Selling it for $1 in an iTunes style system should have been tried pre-tubes, torrents, and cyber lockers. Maybe then it would have worked. Who knows, maybe it still could, but I have my doubts. Maybe it will happen down the road after someone spanks the ass of pirate sites. Honestly, I wouldn't trust someone in porn just charging my card $1. I'd be afraid of multiple charges later. With iTunes, I know that is NOT going to happen, so I buy at will, and I buy often. Trust goes a long way with me, and unless it's on a known 3rd party biller for porn, I'm not giving any of you dick heads my credit card.

10-19-2011, 11:19 AM	#29
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,158	Paul Markham obviously doesn't understand jack shit about current technology.

10-19-2011, 11:43 AM	#30
FlexxAeon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,765	micropayments can definitely work. ran a micropayment site for a while, based on "points" so it wasn't a $1 charge every time. wasn't wildly successful but it was profitable and would probably work great today (been debating on doing it again) run of the mill porn doesn't really have a shot with micropayments today. as DWB said, this would have been a pre-tube implementation. the porn has to be unique - C4S is mostly popular due to it's high volume of fetish stuff. __________________ flexx [dot] aeon [at] gmail

10-19-2011, 12:57 PM	#32
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	Maybe the music is shit but you can buy it by the turd instead of having to take the whole dump (Currently Sober is warming up his seat :P)