Hockey the world's most dangerous sport now?

[Mutt]

this is brutal, Chris Pronger out the rest of the season with post-concussion syndrome, the greatest player in the world Sidney Crosby's career is pretty much done because of concussions. every team in the league has players out with concussions, my favorite team has already had 5 players out with the same shit.

something is very wrong and I don't know how the NHL can fix the problem, you can't take hitting out of the sport, it wouldn't be hockey anymore - but a sport where guys are getting brain damaged more and more each year. UFC fighters don't get this messed up.

[porno jew]

was thinking the same thing tonight. but people are just aware of it now, medically and technologically.

same shit happened years ago but didn't have the tools to be aware of brain damage.

now it's almost criminal to send players out knowing they will be a brain damaged psychopath retard who blows their head off at the end of their career.

it is just too primitive.

[WarChild]

I thought Crosby was playing well since he came back? Is that not the case?

[Shap]

Never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined a situation where I wouldn't want my two young boys to grow up to play hockey some day. Unfortunately that day has come. I can't believe it. The stories I hear from my neighbors with kids in minor hockey is really scary. If you think it's bad in the nhl from what I hear in minor hockey age 7 to 14 it is absolutely out of control.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by WarChild

I thought Crosby was playing well since he came back? Is that not the case?

Crosby is back out with concussion symptoms

[porno jew]

was always like that. even worse back in the day. people are just more aware of the brutality.

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by Shap

Crosby is back out with concussion symptoms

Ahh didn't know that. Not much hockey coverage in Bermuda.

[porno jew]

shap the people that are brain damaged and killing themselves are you age. did you play hockey when you were young?

[Supz]

same shit in football

[Axeman]

I think they really need to reduce the level of armor on the elbow pads and shoulder pads that players use these days. Gives the players the sense of being able to do anything without feeling it on their end. Providing reckless play, and with the speed and size of players being what it is now, that is a bad trait.

Give guys the flimsy shoulder pads from the 80's and see how many guys still throw hits with reckless abandon. Those pads gave a little protection for normal hits, but if you went trying to take a guys block off, you'd screw up your own shoulder as well.

[Mutt]

Originally Posted by Shap

Never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined a situation where I wouldn't want my two young boys to grow up to play hockey some day. Unfortunately that day has come. I can't believe it. The stories I hear from my neighbors with kids in minor hockey is really scary. If you think it's bad in the nhl from what I hear in minor hockey age 7 to 14 it is absolutely out of control.

i've heard that too - my thought is that a big culprit is the equipment, it is like a knight's armour, if i could show you the equipment i played in as a kid from 6 up to my early 20's - very light small shoulder pads, elbow pads were small too - no visor on helmet. kids and pro's today are fearless they are padded so well - the thing is that the human brain is not supposed to be rattled violently on a daily basis. hockey boards are also built way too stiff now, no give in them to absorb some of the force.

[Axeman]

Originally Posted by Mutt

i've heard that too - my thought is that a big culprit is the equipment, it is like a knight's armour, if i could show you the equipment i played in as a kid from 6 up to my early 20's - very light small shoulder pads, elbow pads were small too - no visor on helmet. kids and pro's today are fearless they are padded so well - the thing is that the human brain is not supposed to be rattled violently on a daily basis. hockey boards are also built way too stiff now, no give in them to absorb some of the force.

More so than the boards, I would argue the seamless glass is the bigger culprit of the two. In order to be seamless, they make the glass so damn rigid, there is no give at all in some of the buildings.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by porno jew

was always like that. even worse back in the day. people are just more aware of the brutality.

I played competitive hockey my whole life. We had maybe one concussion a year. That's MAYBE. Probably averaged seeing one concussion every 3 or 4 years. It's definitely worse now and I don't know why. I'm guessing the equipment has to be a big part of it.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by Axeman

I think they really need to reduce the level of armor on the elbow pads and shoulder pads that players use these days. Gives the players the sense of being able to do anything without feeling it on their end. Providing reckless play, and with the speed and size of players being what it is now, that is a bad trait.

Give guys the flimsy shoulder pads from the 80's and see how many guys still throw hits with reckless abandon. Those pads gave a little protection for normal hits, but if you went trying to take a guys block off, you'd screw up your own shoulder as well.

I remember midway through a Junior season my elbow pads had a crack in them. It hurt like hell when I hit the ice or boards. I can tell you what when I went in for a check you can be damn sure I didn't miss LOL

[Shap]

Originally Posted by porno jew

shap the people that are brain damaged and killing themselves are you age. did you play hockey when you were young?

Yep sure did. Up until I was 21 full contact the whole way through.

I was commenting also on minor hockey problems right now. Minor hockey leagues are having a huge concussion problem. Part of it is they are better aware of what a concussion is (so obviously more are diagnosed) but at the same time something is driving the number of concussions up.

[kane]

Originally Posted by Supz

same shit in football

There was a big story on ESPN several months ago that showed kids that just played high school football and never went on to play beyond that are something like 20 times more likely to get early onset dementia an suffer from other brain related illnesses like Alzheimer than those who didn't play. It all stems from the hits to the head. Even though you are wearing a helmet the contact rattles the brain. If you are a lineman or running back it pretty much happens on every single play.

If play in college or make it to the pros the odds become even greater that you will have brain damage. It is pretty wild. Having seen that, if I had a son I would never in a million years let him play high school football. He might hate me for it, but I couldn't let him do it knowing the risks.

[Axeman]

Originally Posted by Shap

I remember midway through a Junior season my elbow pads had a crack in them. It hurt like hell when I hit the ice or boards. I can tell you what when I went in for a check you can be damn sure I didn't miss LOL

Hahaha I can just imagine this.

[kane]

I wonder if an outright ban on hits to the head in the NHL would help. The problem is that it is such a chaotic sport that even with a ban there would be guys getting hit in the head by accident.

I also wonder if they made it like the Olympic and European game more by expanding the size of the ice if that would help. In those games there is less hitting, no fighting and it seems like less injuries because the speed and agility guys are rewarded with space to move and can more easily avoid the bigger hits.

[brassmonkey]

no car racing is high on that list

[Doctor Dre]

Originally Posted by porno jew

was thinking the same thing tonight. but people are just aware of it now, medically and technologically.

same shit happened years ago but didn't have the tools to be aware of brain damage.

now it's almost criminal to send players out knowing they will be a brain damaged psychopath retard who blows their head off at the end of their career.

it is just too primitive.

The fact that they took off hooking made the game go much faster.

[Mutt]

that's also true, the obstruction rules where you can no longer hook and grab has made things faster therefore more high speed high impact collisions - also the two line pass. you've taken away a lot of what a defenceman can do to deal with a forward coming at him at 40km per hour , going head on with him is his only option a lot of the time.

it's sad, brain injuries linger for years - even your entire lifetime. depression, suicidal thoughts, headaches, and other symptoms

[scuba steve]

it would be funny to compare concussion symptoms in the nhl with khl and other euro leagues. see if they are similar, and if not what are they doing better. i don't know if its equipment or playing style

[baddog]

I hear boxing has a problem with this too.

[Spunky]

It's all about the money,it's a short career and get as much as you can,either the knees,concussions or back give out.It's inevitable for any sport

[barcodes]

[tuffruff]

My son is a AAA Bantam now and has been playing since he was 3. Hes been lucky and has never had a serious injury and no head injuries but we know many that have. Thankfully awareness on concussions is become much better and taken much more serious these days. Even a few years ago it was thought more as a little shaken up than something that could be dangerous for your future. Rules are changing just this year checking has been banned in the USA until the Bantam level (13 and 14 yr olds). Before this year you could check at the peewee level (11 and 12 yr olds) These are some of my son's hits from last year as a 12 year old peewee before they were illegal like now:

[tuffruff]

That embed didnt work anyway heres the link:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KE8D1eN9fHs

[stephane76]

Originally Posted by kane

There was a big story on ESPN several months ago that showed kids that just played high school football and never went on to play beyond that are something like 20 times more likely to get early onset dementia an suffer from other brain related illnesses like Alzheimer than those who didn't play. It all stems from the hits to the head. Even though you are wearing a helmet the contact rattles the brain. If you are a lineman or running back it pretty much happens on every single play.

If play in college or make it to the pros the odds become even greater that you will have brain damage. It is pretty wild. Having seen that, if I had a son I would never in a million years let him play high school football. He might hate me for it, but I couldn't let him do it knowing the risks.

that topic is often brought up in Real Sports on HBO as well

https://youtube.com/watch?v=-mB1gFXfOZU
https://youtube.com/watch?v=jbxJgN2Udjg
http://youtu.be/hpiryx3DgkU

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by scuba steve

it would be funny to compare concussion symptoms in the nhl with khl and other euro leagues. see if they are similar, and if not what are they doing better. i don't know if its equipment or playing style

a couple of things are different in the euro leagues... bigger rinks and less 'north/south' collisions.

There used to be a rule in the NHL, not sure if its still there and ignored or was taken out, that one can not check an opponent unless you are skating in the same direction as them or close to it. I watched hockey all through the eighties and 90's and north/south hitting almost never happened in games.. Sure if a winger tried to go to the outside on a defenseman he would get hammered into the boards but he wouldn't come across on a full out stride like a wrecking ball either. It's not considered charging because they didn't stride directly into them but if the speed is the same what's the difference?

Everyone makes the argument that players are bigger and stronger and faster now... but is that even true? Equipment hasn't improved that much and training has gotten more technical but I wouldn't say its enough to make this much of a difference in injuries. Scott Stevens was mostly known for his career ending hits, often resulting in head injuries.. yet he went 85% of his career before that dishing out hard hits and not injuring anyone before that.. at least not that brutally anyway. Why is that? Something changed in the league that allowed this style of play and it needs to be corrected.

also fix the damn helmets.. they wear those things like fuckin ball caps.

[kane]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

a couple of things are different in the euro leagues... bigger rinks and less 'north/south' collisions.

There used to be a rule in the NHL, not sure if its still there and ignored or was taken out, that one can not check an opponent unless you are skating in the same direction as them or close to it. I watched hockey all through the eighties and 90's and north/south hitting almost never happened in games.. Sure if a winger tried to go to the outside on a defenseman he would get hammered into the boards but he wouldn't come across on a full out stride like a wrecking ball either. It's not considered charging because they didn't stride directly into them but if the speed is the same what's the difference?

Everyone makes the argument that players are bigger and stronger and faster now... but is that even true? Equipment hasn't improved that much and training has gotten more technical but I wouldn't say its enough to make this much of a difference in injuries. Scott Stevens was mostly known for his career ending hits, often resulting in head injuries.. yet he went 85% of his career before that dishing out hard hits and not injuring anyone before that.. at least not that brutally anyway. Why is that? Something changed in the league that allowed this style of play and it needs to be corrected.

also fix the damn helmets.. they wear those things like fuckin ball caps.

Mutt mentioned a few things that might contribute to it. With the removal the two line pass and the crack down on hooking and obstruction calls the NHL has opened up the game and improved the speed of the game. But with that speed comes potentially harder hits. It seems now more than ever the speed guys have room to move and they end up getting blasted.

[PR_Phil]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

a couple of things are different in the euro leagues... bigger rinks and less 'north/south' collisions.

There used to be a rule in the NHL, not sure if its still there and ignored or was taken out, that one can not check an opponent unless you are skating in the same direction as them or close to it. I watched hockey all through the eighties and 90's and north/south hitting almost never happened in games.. Sure if a winger tried to go to the outside on a defenseman he would get hammered into the boards but he wouldn't come across on a full out stride like a wrecking ball either. It's not considered charging because they didn't stride directly into them but if the speed is the same what's the difference?

Everyone makes the argument that players are bigger and stronger and faster now... but is that even true? Equipment hasn't improved that much and training has gotten more technical but I wouldn't say its enough to make this much of a difference in injuries. Scott Stevens was mostly known for his career ending hits, often resulting in head injuries.. yet he went 85% of his career before that dishing out hard hits and not injuring anyone before that.. at least not that brutally anyway. Why is that? Something changed in the league that allowed this style of play and it needs to be corrected.

also fix the damn helmets.. they wear those things like fuckin ball caps.

Cherry is on his 21st edition of Rockem Sockem Hockey and each and every one of them is 30 straight minutes of north south hits, most of which he considers clean hits. He's a senile old fuck, but one of my favorite people, and he is absolutely right that shoulder and elbow pads are a big part of this.

#1 - Equipment has hard plastic in it not instead of tightly packed material. My elbow pads in PeeWee hockey were foam, when I got new ones, they had a plastic dome that covered your elbow that was as hard as a football helmet.

#2 - The players have absolutely no respect for each other any more, the NHL used to be a camaraderie, guys would pound the shit out of each other, while at the same time respecting each others health. I know that sounds a little ridiculous, but it is true, if a guy got crushed and you could tell he wasn't 100%, he wasn't getting hit again that night, in a fight, if you dazed a guy, you stopped punching him and waved to his wife in the crowd. The NHLPA has done an incredible job of teaching guys it's everyone for themselves, the association set up to represent players has taught them not to give a shit about each other.

#3 - They are way more aware of this shit, just as many people got concussions 20 years ago, and 30 years ago, but they didn't know, they called it a headache, sniffed some smelling salts and got back on the ice, now if you get hit in the head, your forced to go to the dressing room and get assessed (this isn't a bad idea, just different then before)

#4 - they make too much money, 30 years ago, if your career ended because you got hit in the head to many times, you had to go work construction, drive the Zamboni, open a bar, or go to speech school and try to become a commentator. Now, by the time an NHL player, making the league minimum is 24, he is a millionaire, if you are in the top 25% of players (the ones who get zeroed in on by big hitters) you are probably worth 20+ million by 24.

the game hasn't changed that much, people change.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by scuba steve

it would be funny to compare concussion symptoms in the nhl with khl and other euro leagues. see if they are similar, and if not what are they doing better. i don't know if its equipment or playing style

Originally Posted by kane

Mutt mentioned a few things that might contribute to it. With the removal the two line pass and the crack down on hooking and obstruction calls the NHL has opened up the game and improved the speed of the game. But with that speed comes potentially harder hits. It seems now more than ever the speed guys have room to move and they end up getting blasted.

how does removing the red line make defensemen hit players harder? If a forward cherry picks ahead even if he is at full speed the defenseman is never EVER deeper than his own blue line, and if he is even that deep at all they are stationary or skating backwards, not in full flight forward or they would put themselves way out of position. In other words that's not where the hits are happening. They are all either right at centre ice in the middle of transition or just inside the attackers blue line on an even sided rush.

I don't like the red line removal myself, i think it cheats the skill of the game but I know its not a part of the injury problem. Hooking and clutching practically ruined the game in the mid to late 90's, bringing that back would absolutely kill the game now.

[kane]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

how does removing the red line make defensemen hit players harder? If a forward cherry picks ahead even if he is at full speed the defenseman is never EVER deeper than his own blue line, and if he is even that deep at all they are stationary or skating backwards, not in full flight forward or they would put themselves way out of position. In other words that's not where the hits are happening. They are all either right at centre ice in the middle of transition or just inside the attackers blue line on an even sided rush.

I don't like the red line removal myself, i think it cheats the skill of the game but I know its not a part of the injury problem. Hooking and clutching practically ruined the game in the mid to late 90's, bringing that back would absolutely kill the game now.

I think it allows the forwards to build up a little more speed coming into the zone so when they do get hit by the defensemen it is at a higher rate of speed and can do more damage. When they don't have to worry about the two line pass they can fly through the zone to get the pass. there are some massive open ice hits in that area, but there are many more where the forward is flying up the boards and gets slammed into them by the defensemen. The faster that forward is going the more powerful that impact is going to be.

I also just read PR_Phils post and he makes some great points about the equipment being more like a weapon these days than a pad.

It is likely a combination of things. Faster, stronger players. Rule changes that allow for those faster players to build up more speed and cause higher speed collisions. Harder, more impact resistant gear that can do damage when you connect with someone's head. The way many of the guys wear their helmets just loose on their heads and the fact that there are a lot of guys out there who want to make a name for themselves as the guy who delivers the big hits and takes people out. It is kind of like the perfect storm.

It is too bad that we don't have solid stats to compare concussions from 20 years ago in the NHL to today. Like others have said, there likely were many, they just went without being diagnosed.

[PR_Glen]

watch replays of all the head injuries in the last few years, almost all of them are at centre ice or just inside the blue line. The red line doesn't come into play with those types of hits at all.

Phil illustrated an important part of the problem, players respecting others health. There is more respect in the nfl than there is in the nhl these days with regards to hits--there has to be or teams would have to replace their running backs and receivers every year.

[kane]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

watch replays of all the head injuries in the last few years, almost all of them are at centre ice or just inside the blue line. The red line doesn't come into play with those types of hits at all.

Phil illustrated an important part of the problem, players respecting others health. There is more respect in the nfl than there is in the nhl these days with regards to hits--there has to be or teams would have to replace their running backs and receivers every year.

I agree that respect is lacking badly. There are guys like Sean Avery that everyone knows is dirty and yet he still hangs around. There are also guys who go out of their way to try to hurt the stars from the other team. I remember a few years back watching Darian Hatcher elbow Jeremy Roenick into the glass and break his jaw. And how many cheap shots has Chris Pronger taken on guys? They should make the rule simple. If you intentionally hurt someone you are out of the game as long as they are. If that injury ends their career, your's is done too.

[magicmike]

Hockey and football are too dangerous for kids these days.

Golf seems to be the way to go now.

[magicmike]

Oh, and are skaters just going faster? That was a big thing in the 90's as I recall, N.A. players realizing they were too slow compared to the Russians and Europeans... You move so fast on ice, no wonder hits are so hard.

Football hits and tackles hurt and your just running into each other and landing on soft ground.

Fuck, hockey is rough.

[crash_jackson]

Best fights in sport ever are on the hockey matches!!

[huey]

Use smelling salts and play through it like they used to.

[Double trouble]

[Makaveli]

Hockey has always been tough. People get fucked all the time. We're just more aware of it.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by magicmike

Oh, and are skaters just going faster? That was a big thing in the 90's as I recall, N.A. players realizing they were too slow compared to the Russians and Europeans... You move so fast on ice, no wonder hits are so hard.

Football hits and tackles hurt and your just running into each other and landing on soft ground.

Fuck, hockey is rough.

plenty of fast skaters in the euro leagues, I haven't read as much about head injuries out there though.

better helmets would help a lot. mandatory mouth guards would make an impact (or technically less impact) as well.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by tuffruff

That embed didnt work anyway heres the link:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KE8D1eN9fHs

OMG your son is a crusher. Those are some really amazing hits. Is he the biggest guy on the team?

[Nicky]

Originally Posted by Shap

OMG your son is a crusher. Those are some really amazing hits. Is he the biggest guy on the team?

In Sweden they are not allowed to tackle before the age of 12. Not sure how It is in Canada and the US but something tells me It's lower age lol

[tuffruff]

Originally Posted by Shap

OMG your son is a crusher. Those are some really amazing hits. Is he the biggest guy on the team?

LOL those were clean hits he managed 99 penalty minutes in the Northen IL hockey league last year in 30 league games. He's not just a goon though healso was # 4 in goals and number 2 in assists for the entire 100+ plus team league inluding all levels.

Hes a bantam now and playiing at a higher level this year in Missouri for more exposure, though it costs us a fortune..lol..

Love to see Shemp see this this thread he saw the little one as a 3 pound preemie baby that we were told would be lucky if he lived without having probs

[tuffruff]

Wish I could figure out how to embedd youtube vids into a thread if some knows how embedd and says "tuffruffs kid"

[tuffruff]

Originally Posted by Shap

OMG your son is a crusher. Those are some really amazing hits. Is he the biggest guy on the team?

And nno to your? Hes one of the smallest kids on the team and in the league he is just not afraid of anyone and has a desire to win that id crazy. Little kid from our small town in IL won mvp of the Silver Sticks International Tournament in Pelham Ontario a few years back

[tuffruff]

This is just a pic from a Spring tourny as a peewee in chicago, Hes now playing Central States Bantam AAA against the best of the best in the USA. Hes struggling this year beacause of his size but still young on the team. He will be fine!! and making great progress for the future

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by Mutt

Hockey the world's most dangerous sport now?

No, Soccer still holds the record as most dangerous sport in the world.


The Heysel Stadium disaster occurred on 29 May 1985 when escaping fans were pressed against a wall in the Heysel Stadium in Brussels, Belgium, as a result of rioting before the start of the 1985 European Cup Final between Liverpool of England and Juventus of Italy. Thirty-nine Juventus fans died and 600 were injured.
More here

The Hillsborough disaster was a human crush that occurred on 15 April 1989 at Hillsborough, a football stadium, the home of Sheffield Wednesday F.C. in Sheffield, England, resulting in the deaths of 96 people,[1] and 766 being injured, all fans of Liverpool F.C.. It remains the deadliest stadium-related disaster in British history and one of the worst ever international football accidents.[2] It was the second of two stadium-related disasters involving Liverpool supporters, the other being the Heysel Stadium Disaster in 1985.
More here

Then there is the player deaths:
FootBaller Deaths

[Dvae]

Originally Posted by tuffruff

Wish I could figure out how to embedd youtube vids into a thread if some knows how embedd and says "tuffruffs kid"

Put whatever comes after the equals sign in the url in |youtube|number here|/youtube| tags.
(Use square brackests instead of pipe symbols)