How big a piracy problem is Usenet?

[Paul Markham]

And how well do they respond to DMCA notices, if you can even send them?

I'm not as clued up on this as others. But found all this courtesy of Damian and KT pointing me to it.











Educate me please.

[mafia_man]

Giganews respond well to DMCA. They are the biggest provider to hit them first.

It's cat and mouse though because like filelockers they don't ban users who continually upload.

Why slay the golden goose?

[madtwin]

To be honest, it's not such a huge problem as it seems... For now. Usenet was there long before torrents and file lockers, but majority of people don't even know about it's existence. It's not that easy to download something from Usenet - you have to use special app, you have to pay for using it without limitations, you have to know where to look for stuff. And most of pirates won't pay for anything - they don't have enough money or just think that everything should be free.

Usenet was always one of the first warez distribution channels (like IRC and ftp) and it seems that will stay that way, because it gives you the highest level of anonymity - no logs, encrypted connection through third-world chained proxies and vpn's bundled with your $20 Usenet plan, paying with prepaid cards, ukash or sms...

It can turn into real problem if more people learn about benefits of Usenet though...

That's why Usenet is being used for much worse and shady things than piracy... Sad but true.

From Wikipedia:

ISP-operated Usenet servers frequently block access to all alt.binaries.* groups to both reduce network traffic and to avoid related legal issues. Commercial Usenet service providers claim to operate as a telecommunications service, and assert that they are not responsible for the user-posted binary content transferred via their equipment. In the United States, Usenet providers can qualify for protection under the DMCA Safe Harbor regulations, provided that they establish a mechanism to comply with and respond to takedown notices from copyright holders.

Removal of copyrighted content from the entire Usenet network is a nearly impossible task, due to the rapid propagation between servers and the retention done by each server...

...Also unlike modern P2P services, the identity of the downloaders is hidden from view. On P2P services a downloader is identifiable to all others by their network address. On Usenet, the downloader connects directly to a server, and only the server knows the address of who is connecting to it. Some Usenet providers do keep usage logs, but not all make this logged information casually available to outside parties such as the RIAA.

[Hentaikid]

Usenet is old school, and even more complicated to use than torrents (i.e. not much but enough to deter 99% of users) the problem is the scrapers that scoop content and present it to their subscribers in a convenient and easy to use form.

The original usenet is text discussion groups which then had binaries bolted on using attachments. The problem with DMCA is that it's decentralized, no one really hosts the whole thing they just copy posts from each other to make up the categories & discussions

[DamianJ]

Paul, there is ten TB of data a DAY uploaded to usenet. According to http://www.morganelligroup.com/usenet-stats/

Daily Volume Date Source
4.5 GB 1996-12 Altopia.com
9 GB 1997-07 Altopia.com
12 GB 1998-01 Altopia.com
26 GB 1999-01 Altopia.com
82 GB 2000-01 Altopia.com
181 GB 2001-01 Altopia.com
257 GB 2002-01 Altopia.com
492 GB 2003-01 Altopia.com
969 GB 2004-01 Altopia.com
1.30 TB 2004-09-30 Octanews.net
1.38 TB 2004-12-31 Octanews.net
1.52 TB 2005-01 Altopia.com
1.34 TB 2005-01-01 Octanews.net
1.30 TB 2005-01-01 Newsreader.com
1.81 TB 2005-02-28 Octanews.net
1.87 TB 2005-03-08 Newsreader.com
2.00 TB 2005-03-11 Various sources
2.27 TB 2006-01 Altopia.com
2.95 TB 2007-01 Altopia.com
3.07 TB 2008-01 Altopia.com
3.80 TB 2008-04-16 Newsdemon.com
4.60 TB 2008-11-01 Giganews.com
4.65 TB 2009-01 Altopia.com
6.00 TB 2009-12 Newsdemon.com
5.42 TB 2010-01 Altopia.com
8.00 TB 2010-09 Newsdemon.com
7.52 TB 2011-01 Altopia.com
8.25 TB 2011-10 Thecubenet.com
9.19 TB (estimate) 2012-01 Altopia.com

Hope that helps to give you an idea of the scale.

[Fletch XXX]

as someone who traded blank tapes with people from brazil as a kid trying to get ahold of music I had never heard of, if anyone thinks traders will ever stop its not going to happen, and with cloud file sharing so popular now, if you think 1TB is bad, its going to double. files are meant to be shared and this is how the next gen will see things. my little girl is already 2 and watching youtube videos of her favorite crtoons.... yeah and its all copywritten infringing sesame street vids on youtube.

you tyhink she thinks thats wrong? no and she never will, you cant go against this...

signed up for 50gig box account yesterday, free of course and soon as i uploaded a mp3 it asked me if i wanted to share it with everyone on facebook.

ummm, and they arrested megaupload? LOL

[Hentaikid]

It's copyrighted not copywritten, "writing copy" is a different thing.

Sesame street has an official youtube channel, they almost certainly are in with the digital fingerprinting scheme so they get a cut of ad revenue for their videos no matter who uploads them.

[nudecanada]

H1pcr1me

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Hentaikid

It's copyrighted not copywritten, "writing copy" is a different thing.

Sesame street has an official youtube channel, they almost certainly are in with the digital fingerprinting scheme so they get a cut of ad revenue for their videos no matter who uploads them.

that is but one very small example I used.... how about a fraction of the others (her playlist is about 9 hours long) lol

blues clues
ni hao kai lan
word world

sesame street was just an example i pulled out my head, there are COUNTLESS infringing kid videos on that site

[Hentaikid]

Again, it's likely all major producers are already up on the digital fingerprinting scheme, so they no longer are infringing at all.

It's just like TV, no one wonders if the shows are licensed to be broadcast because it's none of your business as a viewer.

[tammix]

Usenet? are you guys still in the 90s? that thing is practically dead, most services are gone
maybe you should check Gopher too! LOL

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by tammix

Usenet? are you guys still in the 90s? that thing is practically dead,

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Hentaikid

Again, it's likely all major producers are already up on the digital fingerprinting scheme, so they no longer are infringing at all.

the only thing "likely" is the fact users are uploading clips from childrens shows. LOL

and i save money not ordering dvds by just playing youtube to TV

but i also have instant watch netflix too which is better but youtube playlists are cool for playtime kid vids

[Hentaikid]

Yes, the clips are uploaded by the users, detected by the digital fingerprinting, and approved to be posted, that's how it works.

[candyflip]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

the only thing "likely" is the fact users are uploading clips from childrens shows. LOL

and i save money not ordering dvds by just playing youtube to TV

but i also have instant watch netflix too which is better but youtube playlists are cool for playtime kid vids

Watching Mickey Mouse Clubhouse on YouTube right now.

Instant Watch NETFLIX is a god send for anyone with kids. Fuck cable, for $7.99 we've got everything we need.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by candyflip

Watching Mickey Mouse Clubhouse on YouTube right now.

Instant Watch NETFLIX is a god send for anyone with kids. Fuck cable, for $7.99 we've got everything we need.

i swore an oath to never buy elmo dvds or any of that, she will just throw it away in couple years and yes, instant watch ANYTHING for kids is great.

Sometimes I put something on she shakes head and its like even just three clicks takes too long, if i had to switch out dvds shed prolly bite me! i stream netflix to my phone too
lol

webmaster dads working from home raising chirrens. oh the hilarity

[iSpyCams]

To have a good experience on usenet, you need to pay a provider ~20 a month, plus a paid account at a quality indexer, and have some knowledge of the scene.

To the average Joe, Netflix is cheaper and much easier, and lately a lot of the stuff you get on usenet is ripped from Netflix anyway.

Additionally, as usenet servers fill up older stuff is pushed out, so there is a retention issue as well, it's not like torrents where the stuff will be on there as long as somebody is seeding, or like a file locker where the server is maintained and backed up.

Most usenet uploads last from a few days to a few months, and though there are premium services claiming to retain files for up to 3 years, I have never seen anything over a year old download correctly.

[ottopottomouse]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Educate me please.

Get rid of the standard blue xp theme.

[porno jew]

how big an airplane is blue?

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by tammix

Usenet? are you guys still in the 90s? that thing is practically dead, most services are gone
maybe you should check Gopher too! LOL

..

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

And how well do they respond to DMCA notices, if you can even send them?

I'm not as clued up on this as others. But found all this courtesy of Damian and KT pointing me to it.











Educate me please.

Deh-Yah-POO....

[mafia_man]

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

Get rid of the standard blue xp theme.

Right click the start bar and lock it.

That annoys me so much.

[mikesouth]

Interesting how few people here really understand what usenet is and how it really works. They do know how to use it though.

I dont have the time to explain it fully but suffice ot to say usenet as a piracy vehicle isnt going anywhere soon. its decentralized and removing content is next to impossible because of how it works, just because giganews removes something is relatively meaningless because the way usenet works you would have to remove that post from all news servers before it propagates again...good luck with that....

Best we could do is target usenet search engines because they make usenet MUCH easier to use

[nextri]

A lot of content is being uploaded to usenet. But it's not as much used as torrents or tubes, since it's not as easy to setup or use.

[lucas131]

i bet usenet will go soon and is under radar already, it is filled daily with illegal sick porn and available online from browsers to everyone, it must go!

[martinsc]

usenet is often the main source for torrents and tubes.....

[Shoplifter]

Originally Posted by tammix

Usenet? are you guys still in the 90s? that thing is practically dead, most services are gone
maybe you should check Gopher too! LOL

Usenet has had a major resurgence over the past year or so. There are a lot of tools like SABnzbd and sites like nzbxxx that make it all easy. If the client software is easy then it's simple for the masses to use.

Think of it a giant decentralized cloud based file locker.

[mikesouth]

Originally Posted by tammix

Usenet? are you guys still in the 90s? that thing is practically dead, most services are gone
maybe you should check Gopher too! LOL

You keep thinkin that hot rod....

I would quote Mark Twain here...Tis better to say nothing and have people think you are an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[papill0n]

Originally Posted by tammix

Usenet? are you guys still in the 90s? that thing is practically dead, most services are gone
maybe you should check Gopher too! LOL

you = clueless

[awwhoez]

leave usenet alone its old

[flashfire]

Originally Posted by tammix

Usenet? are you guys still in the 90s? that thing is practically dead, most services are gone
maybe you should check Gopher too! LOL

lol this guy obviously had no idea, but I wouldn't worry too much about usenet since the average joe doesn't use it. If someone is savy enough for usenet they are not out buying porn memberships fyi

gotta be honest I use usenet for tv shows every night and it kicks ass, speeds are unreal. HD I download from there looks better than the stuff I pay for every month

[awwhoez]

Originally Posted by flashfire

lol this guy obviously had no idea, but I wouldn't worry too much about usenet since the average joe doesn't use it. If someone is savy enough for usenet they are not out buying porn memberships fyi

gotta be honest I use usenet for tv shows every night and it kicks ass, speeds are unreal. HD I download from there looks better than the stuff I pay for every month

yea the speeds are unreal man

[xholly]

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

To have a good experience on usenet, you need to pay a provider ~20 a month, plus a paid account at a quality indexer, and have some knowledge of the scene.

To the average Joe, Netflix is cheaper and much easier, and lately a lot of the stuff you get on usenet is ripped from Netflix anyway.

Additionally, as usenet servers fill up older stuff is pushed out, so there is a retention issue as well, it's not like torrents where the stuff will be on there as long as somebody is seeding, or like a file locker where the server is maintained and backed up.

Most usenet uploads last from a few days to a few months, and though there are premium services claiming to retain files for up to 3 years, I have never seen anything over a year old download correctly.

over 1000 days retention on the servers i use, all download fine and there are always .par2 files to fix any errors.

latest episode of survivor downloaded in 3 minutes

anyway noone joining a paysite has heard of usenet before

[xholly]

usenet has also been great for program owners looking to start a new exgf site with super cheap content

[Fletch XXX]

ya see, its far from dead, even gfyers USE it everyday.

LOL

[venus]

several people touched on it already, but overall you are not going to get it removed, like others said, its the way usenet is. As soon as its uploaded, its on thousands of usenet servers. I use to run my own usenet server taking feeds from several main providers. It takes a craazy amount of hard drives to offer binary groups.

Anyways, usenet was once reat for advertising your site, back when netscape had a usenet reader built into it. now you can use Eudora to grab your usenet groups and your local ISP should have the settings for you to get them. But if you have to after the poster, not sending out takedown notices. Some of the big usenet sites hide the IP address of the poster, this heps them get people to join because they know they can post anom. But if you can get an Ip address of the poster send a complaint to their ISP.

[Paul Markham]

Thanks guys for the info. A little more knowledgeable now. This was started by a debate I was having with Damian and JT on B&B they seem to think Usenet will step in and become the replacement for pirates if laws hit the funding of piracy.

Seems they are wrong.

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

To have a good experience on usenet, you need to pay a provider ~20 a month, plus a paid account at a quality indexer, and have some knowledge of the scene.

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Best we could do is target usenet search engines because they make usenet MUCH easier to use

So a law hitting the funding will make it harder for pirates and the people who profit from piracy.

No one will stop piracy. Lets just remover the profit element and then look at the problem.

[Fletch XXX]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So a law hitting the funding will make it harder for pirates and the people who profit from piracy.

No one will stop piracy. Lets just remover the profit element and then look at the problem.

Most traders do not profit.

As shown by multiple peoople in this thread even people in this thread use Usenet to download content. Which provves my main point all along... Gfyers will raise hell and want executions if someone downloads a blowjob clip but then sit back and burn Hollywood movie DVDs... Download TV shows and mp3$.... Lol

the same reason most dont give a sit about Hollywood copyright and downloading our pirating it.... Is the way porn traders feel..

They want content but dont want to pay... Fyi I dont care what ppl download just so tired of ppl on gfy acting like this,place is any different than any other forum full of traders lol

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

This was started by a debate I was having with Damian and JT on B&B they seem to think Usenet will step in and become the replacement for pirates if laws hit the funding of piracy.

Where did I say that?

Come on Paul, stop lying.

I was explaining to you, again, that Usenet has been going since before the WWW started and is free and has no advertising revenue and you can't stop it.

I was explaining that the majority of pirates do it for the lulz, not for money. So your awesome plan of removing revenue would have no impact on piracy as most people do it to be 'cool' not for cash.

I was explaining how it is growing very quickly. And is just one form of unstoppable piracy.

Stop lying and go and walk the jigsaw.

x

[Hentaikid]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

I was explaining that the majority of pirates do it for the lulz, not for money. So your awesome plan of removing revenue would have no impact on piracy as most people do it to be 'cool' not for cash.

No different from file lockers, if the people maintaining the very expensive infrastructure who keeps this running are targeted then the rest doesn't matter.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Hentaikid

No different from file lockers, if the people maintaining the very expensive infrastructure who keeps this running are targeted then the rest doesn't matter.

Are you actually suggesting "targeting" "Usenet"?

Hilarious.

That would be like targeting "email".

:D

[tammix]

Originally Posted by Fletch XXX

ya see, its far from dead, even gfyers USE it everyday.

LOL

I made a quick poll with my nephew´s friends this weekend and asked if they know usenet and went ""WTF is that??""" then I mentioned Rapidshare, torrents, youtube and then I noticed I was talking sense again
However, the evolution of the Pinterest model in the following months could bring an opportunity for a kind of "New Usenet" model coming back, but its too soon to tell...
meanwhile be realistic: for now the traditional Usenet is not as alive as it was years ago but its good to see that some people are still loyal to Usenet

[lucas131]

How big a piracy problem is Internet?

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by tammix

meanwhile be realistic: for now the traditional Usenet is not as alive as it was years ago

So you think the graphs I posted are lies?

[helterskelter808]

Originally Posted by madtwin

That's why Usenet is being used for much worse and shady things than piracy... Sad but true.

What you wrote before this was true, but that is simply not true, except insofar as "shady" things exist everywhere. ISPs dropped Usenet for one reason only: cost. Most people don't even have a clue what it is, let alone use it, therefore the hardware and admin costs are just not worth it. ISPs either outsource to Usenet Service Providers (USPs), like Giganews or Highwinds, to provide a limited feed to customers, or they don't provide any at all.

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

Additionally, as usenet servers fill up older stuff is pushed out

Used to be true. Hasn't been true for a long time. Usenet servers have years of binary retention, and even more years of text. In fact I'm not even sure some even bother expiring articles any more.

I have never seen anything over a year old download correctly.

I download Linux ISOs all the time that are over a year old.

Originally Posted by awwhoez

leave usenet alone its old

Originally Posted by flashfire

If someone is savy enough for usenet they are not out buying porn memberships fyi

QFT.

Originally Posted by venus

several people touched on it already, but overall you are not going to get it removed, like others said, its the way usenet is. As soon as its uploaded, its on thousands of usenet servers.

True in theory but there are in fact very few major USPs that can handle binaries.

Anyways, usenet was once reat for advertising your site

AKA spamming. So nobody should expect Usenet users, who have had to put up with porn spam in virtually every group for over 15 years, to give a single fuck about pornographers losing theoretical money. Especially as porn was free on Usenet long before anyone ever decided to sell it on the web. In any case, porn content is a drop in the ocean compared to non-porn on Usenet.

Originally Posted by tammix

I made a quick poll with my nephew´s friends this weekend and asked if they know usenet and went ""WTF is that??""

That has been true since at least as far back as the mid/late 90s.

meanwhile be realistic: for now the traditional Usenet is not as alive as it was years ago but its good to see that some people are still loyal to Usenet

Predictions of the "death of Usenet" have been a standing joke on Usenet itself since the 90s. For text discussion it isn't what it used to be (though there are still many great newsgroups outside of alt.*) but then neither is the web, since FB seems to be killing everything in its path.

[porno jew]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

what does that prove? the internet and it's users has grown at the same rate.

http://www.google.com/trends/?q=usenet

[Hentaikid]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Are you actually suggesting "targeting" "Usenet"?

Hilarious.

That would be like targeting "email".

:D

Of course not, but just like shutting down megaupload had a knockdown effect, major binary providers would affect the whole.

Whatever happened with GUBA anyway?

[garce]

Usenet WAS the internet when I first started. Don't know what the fuck is going on with it now, and I don't care.

[ottopottomouse]

Originally Posted by lucas131

How big a piracy problem is Internet?

bigger than an icecream, but smaller than a trifle.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Where did I say that?

Come on Paul, stop lying.

I was explaining to you, again, that Usenet has been going since before the WWW started and is free and has no advertising revenue and you can't stop it.

I was explaining that the majority of pirates do it for the lulz, not for money. So your awesome plan of removing revenue would have no impact on piracy as most people do it to be 'cool' not for cash.

I was explaining how it is growing very quickly. And is just one form of unstoppable piracy.

Stop lying and go and walk the jigsaw.

x

Obviously Damian is now saying that closing all other forms of piracy will not result in more use of Usenet. So he's now in favor of closing the other forms, as it will reduce piracy. Which the original thread was about. I wrongly assumed Damian with his replies was intimating control would have no effect, by the pirates moving to the Usenet as their piracy platform. Silly me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/16839637 OP