Being pushy?

[brassmonkey]

once again gays are trying to make someone accept them. The policy is clear and its a private organization. what do you think?

The first-graders in Ohio Pack 109's Tiger Scouts didn't know or care their den mother was a lesbian ? at least not until the Boy Scouts of America threw her out over the organization's ban on gays.

Now, parents who were aware of Jennifer Tyrrell's sexual orientation well before she took the boys on campouts and helped them carve race cars for the annual Pinewood Derby have rallied to her defense in a case that has re-ignited the debate over the Scouts' policy.

"I teach my children to judge people on their actions," said Rob Dunn, a father in Bridgeport, a village of about 2,000 across the Ohio River from Wheeling, W.Va. "Whether you agree with their lifestyle or not."

The Boy Scouts of America, whose oath calls for members to be "morally straight," maintains that as a private organization it has the right to exclude gays and atheists from its ranks. That stance was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2000 but has led many state and local governments to deny support for the Scouts.

Male scout leaders who are gay have long been barred, but instances of women being excluded are not well-documented and probably rare. A lesbian couple in Vermont were told two years ago that they could no longer be involved with their son's Scout troop.

Because of the policy, Tyrrell said she only reluctantly allowed her 7-year-old son to join up in Bridgeport, where she lives with her partner and their four children. Told, she said, by the local cub master that it didn't matter that she is a lesbian, she was drafted to lead the pack in September.

Tyrrell told parents at their first meeting about her sexual orientation. Some already knew her because she had coached youth baseball and volunteered at school, organizing class parties and reading to children.

"She wasn't trying to hide anything," said Dunn, whose son is among the dozen or so members of the boys-only pack. "Nobody I know of has ever made a single complaint against her." Tyrrell said she was removed in April, right after she was asked to take over as treasurer of the local Boy Scout troop ? which oversees Tiger Scouts, Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts ? and she raised questions about the finances.

She said the Boy Scout Council for the region told her she had to resign because she is gay. "In this case, the policy was understood by her and her fellow volunteers but not followed," said Deron Smith, a spokesman for the Boy Scouts of America at its headquarters in Irving, Texas. "When a fellow pack leader made a complaint about it, to a local Scouting professional, they followed the policy."

The organization said it believes Scouting is not the right place for youngsters to be exposed to issues of sexual orientation. Tyrrell said she is not certain who complained, but she felt betrayed. So did parents, who organized a protest last week outside the church where the pack held its meetings. They demanded Tyrrell be reinstated.

Crystal Sabinsky said: "My son asked me last night, 'Why did Jen leave? Why is she in trouble?' He doesn't understand." "The only people who were hurt were the kids," Dunn said "They're asking questions they shouldn't have to ask at this point."

Parents of the Tiger Scouts, a program for first-grade boys before they become Cub Scouts, said they never heard Tyrrell mention her sexuality to the children. Club rules require a parent or other adult to accompany each child to every meeting.

"I had no clue she was a lesbian. It doesn't really make a difference to me," said Don Thomas, whose grandson is in the pack. "She did a fantastic job, and the kids loved her. You couldn't ask for a better den leader."

Gay rights groups have taken up Tyrrell's cause, starting an online petition to get the Scouts to change their policy. "The extent that people care is amazing," Tyrrell said. "We're a perfectly normal family. We're not dangerous. We're not predators. We're just normal, everyday people."

[ottopottomouse]

once again gays are trying to make someone accept them. The policy is clear and its a private organization. what do you think?

I think there is a lack of understanding that the children will have just seen her as an adult with none of the prejudice of adult society's views about lesbians.

[Tom_PM]

I dont think who or how someone fucks is anyones goddamn business, but you know what, I dont rule the planet.

I propose that anyone fucking standing up in the shower should not be allowed to see their terminally ill relative, or adopt a child, or run a scout troop. Make sense?

[Sly]

I read that article and did not see one instance where this woman was trying to "make others accept her."

It's amazing to me that people still think that your average gay men and women run around as sexual deviants.

[Rochard]

I feel sorry for these people. Our kids are exposed to gays on a daily basis. One of my kid's teachers is gay, and my kid has a few friends who's parents are gay.

Society has changed. Being gay used to be unheard of, then taboo. Not any more. Who someone is fucking or what they do in the privacy of their bedroom has no effect on their work or who they are.

Kids of our generation will not think twice about gays.

[Bladewire]

I think she's just leading by example.

I've raised my son since birth. He's a great kid. He's straight. He's in college earning a teaching degree.













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[Sid70]

Only gay could post that much of text without cliff notes.

[epitome]

It's no more wrong than private organizations prohibiting black people, right?

I always find it ironic when black people post things like this and don't understand how a big part of the rights they enjoy today is because others helped fight for them.

It wasn't that long ago that a gay white person was likely fighting for black people's rights and now they refuse to do the same citing things like religion.

It wouldn't fly if I said my religion says I should treat black people like second class citizens and considering religion is man made, there would be no justification for that nonsense.

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by epitome

I always find it ironic when black people post things like this and don't understand how a big part of the rights they enjoy today is because others helped fight for them.

Holly grail.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by epitome

It's no more wrong than private organizations prohibiting black people, right?

I always find it ironic when black people post things like this and don't understand how a big part of the rights they enjoy today is because others helped fight for them.

It wasn't that long ago that a gay white person was likely fighting for black people's rights and now they refuse to do the same citing things like religion.

It wouldn't fly if I said my religion says I should treat black people like second class citizens and considering religion is man made, there would be no justification for that nonsense.

your understanding is off. you can't hide being black. but you can sure as hell hide being gay. you go ahead and treat some black man with some crazy ass shit and see what happens. this isnt the 60's they turned the other cheek back then

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

your understanding is off. you can't hide being black. but you can sure as hell hide being gay. you go ahead and treat some black man with some crazy ass shit ans see what happens. this isnt the 60's they turned the other cheek back then

And why should they hide?
Amazing how being black is the new "it".. Turn another cheek? Now that will all depend on how many non black people there to tell you to fuck off.

[Tom_PM]

The gay argument is based on ONE simple question: Is it a choice, or is it how you are born?

That is it in a nutshell.

You see, if you argue from the position that gay is your choice (a sexual preference) then applied it to being black in america, you could just say "stop being black".

It's just that simple. The premise is ENTIRELY critical in the gay argument in society.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

your understanding is off. you can't hide being black. but you can sure as hell hide being gay. you go ahead and treat some black man with some crazy ass shit ans see what happens. this isnt the 60's they turned the other cheek back then

Why should anyone have to hide who they are?

How about this... I'll never reveal that I am gay if you agree to walk around with a sheet covering your body so you don't reveal you're black.

We were both born the way we are and should be respected.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I feel sorry for these people. Our kids are exposed to gays on a daily basis. One of my kid's teachers is gay, and my kid has a few friends who's parents are gay.

Society has changed. Being gay used to be unheard of, then taboo. Not any more. Who someone is fucking or what they do in the privacy of their bedroom has no effect on their work or who they are.

Kids of our generation will not think twice about gays.

sure but media right now seems to "over glorify" being gay which will no doubt lead to kids who might not be gay but confused about their sexuality 'choosing' to be gay because its the cool thing to do.

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by epitome

How about this... I'll never reveal that I am gay if you agree to walk around with a sheet covering your body so you don't reveal you're black.

Too complicated for him. How about dress normal and talk like the rest of us do? For starters - no sagging pants below your ass cheeks and no "we waz having good tamz with bros".

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

sure but media right now seems to "over glorify" being gay which will no doubt lead to kids who might not be gay but confused about their sexuality 'choosing' to be gay because its the cool thing to do.

There is no way someone will choose to be gay. No fucking way.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

sure but media right now seems to "over glorify" being gay which will no doubt lead to kids who might not be gay but confused about their sexuality 'choosing' to be gay because its the cool thing to do.

You're joking, right?

The only people who seem to think it's a 'choice' to be gay are straight people. How about listening to the people that are gay, who will overwhelmingly tell you it's not a choice.

If it's a choice then that implies that by nature we're all equally attracted to both sexes. Do you jerk off thinking about guys? I can assure you that I most certainly do not jerk off thinking about girls.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Just Alex

Too complicated for him. How about dress normal and talk like the rest of us do? For starters - no sagging pants below your ass cheeks and no "we waz having good tamz with bros".

Originally Posted by Just Alex

There is no way someone will choose to be gay. No fucking way.

Both are excellent points.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

The gay argument is based on ONE simple question: Is it a choice, or is it how you are born?

That is it in a nutshell.

You see, if you argue from the position that gay is your choice (a sexual preference) then applied it to being black in america, you could just say "stop being black".

It's just that simple. The premise is ENTIRELY critical in the gay argument in society.

its a fucking article! cub scout rule is no no gays! they won in 2000 supreme court challenge so that part is over its stupid to mix race with someones same sex relations. everybody that has a problem with it call up a talk show and vent over there

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

its stupid to mix race with someones same sex relations. Y

Whats so stupid about it? Did you have a choice to become not black when you were born? Unless you're Michael Jackson, you born black, you're black. Same goes for gay people.
But you're too fucking stupid to grasp the idea.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

sure but media right now seems to "over glorify" being gay which will no doubt lead to kids who might not be gay but confused about their sexuality 'choosing' to be gay because its the cool thing to do.

When I think of this whole concept I find myself asking one question:

Did I wake up today and say to myself "I'm going to be straight today!"

The answer is always no. I never think about whether or not I like tits. I just do. They're nice!

I'm not sure why so many are convinced that gay people get up in the morning and think "should I like cock today?"

[epitome]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

its a fucking article! cub scout rule is no no gays! they won in 2000 supreme court challenge so that part is over its stupid to mix race with someones same sex relations. everybody that has a problem with it call up a talk show and vent over there

Segregation withstood court challenges for probably a few hundred years. What's your point?

Other things that used to be unacceptable but now are rightfully OK: women voting, interracial marriage, drinking alcohol and I could go on and on.

The reason race and gay rights go hand in hand is because they're both about equality and people being accepted for who they were born as.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by epitome

You're joking, right?

The only people who seem to think it's a 'choice' to be gay are straight people. How about listening to the people that are gay, who will overwhelmingly tell you it's not a choice.

If it's a choice then that implies that by nature we're all equally attracted to both sexes. Do you jerk off thinking about guys? I can assure you that I most certainly do not jerk off thinking about girls.

I'm not saying its a choice for people who are actually gay but the glamorization of being gay in the media attracts those who aren't gay but perhaps don't fit it so they 'become' gay to do so.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

I'm not saying its a choice for people who are actually gay but the glamorization of being gay in the media attracts those who aren't gay but perhaps don't fit it so they 'become' gay to do so.

I don't see how they're making it seem glamorous. I don't see how celebrities saying don't beat up a 14 year old boy because he is gay is glamorous. I don't see how Lady Gaga saying accept everyone for who they are is glamorous. I don't see how having two openly gay kids on the show Glee while the majority of characters are straight is glamorous.

If anything, the media is making a plea for acceptance or at the very least, tolerance. There is nothing glamorous about that. There were similar headlines and stories during the civil rights movements of the 60's.

Despite what you may think, being gay is not a cake walk. The majority of people do not accept you for being who you are. The younger generation is cooler with it, but they're not all accepting. It's just an improvement over what it used to be.

[Just Alex]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

they 'become' gay to do so.

You don't become gay... I don't know one single person that said "hey, since I can't have sex with girl Im just going to bang my best friend martin". No way. Thats not how it works.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Sly

I'm not sure why so many are convinced that gay people get up in the morning and think "should I like cock today?"

They are known as the "blessed". The same people who think a white man in a white robe watches everything everyone does at every moment. To them the bible says that being Gay is a sin, and God gave man the choice to sin or not to sin. If they acknowledge that people are born Gay, then their God is imperfect.













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[Tom_PM]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

its a fucking article! cub scout rule is no no gays! they won in 2000 supreme court challenge so that part is over its stupid to mix race with someones same sex relations. everybody that has a problem with it call up a talk show and vent over there

Look, I realise what you are saying. I'm talking to the larger issue of people simply being who they are in society and how it's wrong to say because of the way you are, you are not entitled to the same rights because we're pretending it's a choice. It's literally about good old familiar civil rights and nothing short of that.

The only reason the anti-gay organizations, whether private or public, can get away with it is because sexual orientation (not preference) is not visible and inarguable like skin color. Thats why they say it's a choice, because it makes ALL the difference in law and allows them to completely disciminate based on it. If gays were born purple, this would have been over with in the 60's at the latest.

So my example is valid. Nobody would have said "just stop being black" because there is no way to pretend someone has chosen to be whatever color they are. I hope I made my point more clearly this time. I'm a straight white male and it's easy for me to see what the whole argument hinges on. It hinges on one side saying it's a choice. Like smoking. You can ban smoking and not have it be a civil rights issue why? Because you can choose not to smoke, therefore no rights are violated.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Sly

I read that article and did not see one instance where this woman was trying to "make others accept her."

It's amazing to me that people still think that your average gay men and women run around as sexual deviants.

what i meant by that is she knew that the rules say no gays! man or woman yet she signs up

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Look, I realise what you are saying. I'm talking to the larger issue of people simply being who they are in society and how it's wrong to say because of the way you are, you are not entitled to the same rights because we're pretending it's a choice. It's literally about good old familiar civil rights and nothing short of that.

The only reason the anti-gay organizations, whether private or public, can get away with it is because sexual orientation (not preference) is not visible and inarguable like skin color. Thats why they say it's a choice, because it makes ALL the difference in law and allows them to completely disciminate based on it. If gays were born purple, this would have been over with in the 60's at the latest.

So my example is valid. Nobody would have said "just stop being black" because there is no way to pretend someone has chosen to be whatever color they are. I hope I made my point more clearly this time. I'm a straight white male and it's easy for me to see what the whole argument hinges on. It hinges on one side saying it's a choice. Like smoking. You can ban smoking and not have it be a civil rights issue why? Because you can choose not to smoke, therefore no rights are violated.

right ok but if they don't want gays in their club its their choice. i think it's christian based so they don't believe in same sex stuff. would you ask a muslim to eat pork? no

[Tom_PM]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

right ok but if they don't want gays in their club its their choice. i think it's christian based so they don't believe in same sex stuff. would you ask a muslim to eat pork? no

You know, Rand Paul thinks civil rights should no longer apply to private businesses at all. Can you imagine the outrage when restaurants and clubs and malls started banning religions and races? He actually argues that they wouldnt ban people ever because they would lose money. He's apparently never experienced prejudice or racism in his life, so therefore it doesnt exist, lmao.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

right ok but if they don't want gays in their club its their choice. i think it's christian based so they don't believe in same sex stuff. would you ask a muslim to eat pork? no

They're not Christian based. A sizable part of the Boy Scouts membership is Christian and LDS. Christian's don't even recognize Mormon beliefs, but Mormon's are not excluded from joining.

Also, the Muslim example makes no sense.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by epitome

They're not Christian based. A sizable part of the Boy Scouts membership is Christian and LDS. Christian's don't even recognize Mormon beliefs, but Mormon's are not excluded from joining.

Also, the Muslim example makes no sense.

yes it does muslims forbid eating pork. for christians read Leviticus 18 and 20 of the bible