raymor revokes Plesk's Apache license, demands Plesk cease distribution

[raymor]

This is kind of a funny story, at least for some FOSS geeks. Tonight I was getting annoyed working on a Plesk server because Parallels, who distributes Plesk, includes a broken Apache distribution. They removed important files that users, including ourselves, need. Taking a closer look, I noticed their distribution isn't just broken, it's ILLEGAL. They illegally removed the license file and attributions, it appears. (I've asked the Apache legal team to double check in case I missed something.)

Since I'm an Apache copyright holder, along with asking them to fix some specific brokenness from files they removed, I went ahead and revoked their license to distribute Apache and therefore their Plesk setup package, which includes Apache. Who wants to bet that shit gets fixed first thing in the morning?

[Mr Pheer]

Cool story, bro

[FlowerKid]

I think nobody but you cares about this.

[porno jew]

shit just got real.

[asdasd]

[bean-aid]

Originally Posted by raymor

This is kind of a funny story, at least for some FOSS geeks. Tonight I was getting annoyed working on a Plesk server because Parallels, who distributes Plesk, includes a broken Apache distribution. They removed important files that users, including ourselves, need. Taking a closer look, I noticed their distribution isn't just broken, it's ILLEGAL. They illegally removed the license file and attributions, it appears. (I've asked the Apache legal team to double check in case I missed something.)

Since I'm an Apache copyright holder, along with asking them to fix some specific brokenness from files they removed, I went ahead and revoked their license to distribute Apache and therefore their Plesk setup package, which includes Apache. Who wants to bet that shit gets fixed first thing in the morning?

I'm learning a bit more day by day.

So you worked with Apache and Plesk, being distibuted by Parallels, is being illegally distributed?

The last server I was on, which I switched because they purchased an entire network of shit IP's, was giving Plesk control panel for free with unlimited domains.

[BIGTYMER]

Good work!

[baddog]

Plesk is insane. I tried figuring it out, but man . . .

[asdasd]

Free bsd is insane. That shit has a fucking web panel!

[Brad Mitchell]

Originally Posted by FlowerKid

I think nobody but you cares about this.

You couldn't be more wrong.. its an intelligent post in a sea of mostly mindless, mind-numbing bullshit. Definitely interesting to nerdy admins, programmers and hosts. Carry on!

Brad

[jimmycooper]

I'm on my mobile and don't have a link but there's a good article about Diaspora in this week's Village Voice.

[LiveDose]

Interesting to see what comes of this...

[Spunky]

Tell Bubba to pay them a visit

[rowan]

Hi raymor. When you say revoke, do you mean a legal notice, or some sort of technical revocation method?

[edgeprod]

Raymor, that is both amusing and bad ass. Keep fighting the good fight!

[TisMe]

Originally Posted by FlowerKid

I think nobody but you cares about this.

Anyone serious about servers or hosting cares.

Or does that leave you out?

[raymor]

Well it wasn't fixed first thing in the morning. It was fixed at 1AM, within an hour so of my notice. (At least they promised to fix it.)

I was an asshole in this case. I'm glad being an asshole didn't blow up in my face as it often does. As I mentioned, I was frustrated with their system so when I noticed the apparent violation of the very simple Apache license I C&Ded them instead of being courteous. I was wrong to not be far more gracious on the way I handled it.

Rpwan asked if it was a C&D or some sort of technical revokation like you'd do with a cert - it was a C&D (plain text demand).

[Brad Mitchell]

Originally Posted by TisMe

Anyone serious about servers or hosting cares.

Or does that leave you out?

Probably just another kid or Godaddy hosting customer.. LOL

Own3d

Brad

[raymor]

Originally Posted by beaner

I'm learning a bit more day by day.

So you worked with Apache and Plesk, being distibuted by Parallels, is being illegally distributed?

The last server I was on, which I switched because they purchased an entire network of shit IP's, was giving Plesk control panel for free with unlimited domains.

Right. Parallels distributes Apache as part of their Plesk setup. In order to legally distribute Apache, you only have to do two things:

a) Don't remove our copyright notices and attributions.
b) If you make changes, include a note in the appropriate file.

That's all you have to do - just so the recipient knows who to credit or blame. Parallels removed those files, so they weren't allowed to distribute. (Though one person on Apache legal thinks it might be ok if they include the license in a different package, like httpd-docs.)

Since I wrote parts of Apache, I can demand that they stop pirating it. (I certainly didn't write the majority of it, just small pieces, I'm small fry at the Apache foundation, but I'm an author of it legally.)

As mentioned above, within an hour or so, at 1AM, they said they would comply with the license by including those two files, so it's cool now. That's assuming they DO start including the files as promised. Now I need to apologize to them for being an asshole about it.

[epitome]

So how does one end up being an Apache copyright holder in the first place? How many are there?

[epitome]

Ignore my question. You posted same time as me.

[bean-aid]

Originally Posted by raymor

Right. Parallels distributes Apache as part of their Plesk setup. In order to legally distribute Apache, you only have to do two things:

a) Don't remove our copyright notices and attributions.
b) If you make changes, include a note in the appropriate file.

That's all you have to do - just so the recipient knows who to credit or blame. Parallels removed those files, so they weren't allowed to distribute. (Though one person on Apache legal thinks it might be ok if they include the license in a different package, like httpd-docs.)

Since I wrote parts of Apache, I can demand that they stop pirating it. (I certainly didn't write the majority of it, just small pieces, I'm small fry at the Apache foundation, but I'm an author of it legally.)

As mentioned above, within an hour or so, at 1AM, they said they would comply with the license by including those two files, so it's cool now. That's assuming they DO start including the files as promised. Now I need to apologize to them for being an asshole about it.

I'm sure it's cool. Other people are distributing pirated copies I can guarentee you that.

Thanks for the explanation. You posted in my other thread about programmers and was wondering about what you had written.

I am still looking for a relationship with a programmer.

[borked]

Originally Posted by raymor

As mentioned above, within an hour or so, at 1AM, they said they would comply with the license by including those two files, so it's cool now. That's assuming they DO start including the files as promised. Now I need to apologize to them for being an asshole about it.

That is good news
Begs to wonder why they did that in the first place - what did they have to gain?
Anyway, why do you have to apologise? They did wrong, you reacted, they did right after your reaction.

[rowan]

Originally Posted by beaner

I am still looking for a relationship with a programmer.

There's probably a dating site for that.

[bean-aid]

Originally Posted by rowan

There's probably a dating site for that.

lol... maybe. the reference was another thread... the title was "Where is all the programmers at?"

It is me asking for a programmer who is good and available on an ongoing basis. Obviously Raymor knows his shit...

[InfoGuy]

Originally Posted by raymor

Since I wrote parts of Apache, I can demand that they stop pirating it. (I certainly didn't write the majority of it, just small pieces, I'm small fry at the Apache foundation, but I'm an author of it legally.)

As mentioned above, within an hour or so, at 1AM, they said they would comply with the license by including those two files, so it's cool now. That's assuming they DO start including the files as promised. Now I need to apologize to them for being an asshole about it.

Good job. There's no need to apologize to them. You were totally justified taking a strong position.

[V_RocKs]

Originally Posted by FlowerKid

I think nobody but you cares about this.

and some FOSS geeks

[pornguy]

actually im quite glad you did it that way. They removed those on purpose so why the hell be nice.

[raymor]

Originally Posted by beaner

You posted in my other thread about programmers and was wondering about what you had written.

I am still looking for a relationship with a programmer.

In adult I'm best known for Strongbox, Throttlebox, and Clonebox. (Piratebox coming soon.) I do some FOSS stuff as well. My first widely distributed FOSS where my name was out there was logstrokes, a simple utility included in Sun Solaris and other packages. After that, my name showed up as a member of the Internet Engineering Task Force, the standards setting body for the internet who develops things like HTTP. Nowadays I'm the maintainer of Linux::LVM and you can catch me on lvm-devel and apache-modules-devel.

[Brujah]

I'm curious why they removed specific files. If you find out, update and share?

[Jacob[Soft]]

cool story ...

[edgeprod]

You acted exactly as you should have. Removing licenses and violating licensing terms is a big problem in the OSS world. Big thumbs up again.

To the clowns who don't understand this, you're turning yourselves into the joke.

[Klen]

Originally Posted by raymor

In adult I'm best known for Strongbox, Throttlebox, and Clonebox. (Piratebox coming soon.) I do some FOSS stuff as well. My first widely distributed FOSS where my name was out there was logstrokes, a simple utility included in Sun Solaris and other packages. After that, my name showed up as a member of the Internet Engineering Task Force, the standards setting body for the internet who develops things like HTTP. Nowadays I'm the maintainer of Linux::LVM and you can catch me on lvm-devel and apache-modules-devel.

Now this gives whole new dimension when you call someone "nginx fanboi" yet it's obviously how you are apache fanboi

[asdasd]

Story cool, bro

[baddog]

Originally Posted by borked

That is good news
Begs to wonder why they did that in the first place - what did they have to gain?
Anyway, why do you have to apologise? They did wrong, you reacted, they did right after your reaction.

Honest mistake?

[fuzebox]

Originally Posted by Brad Mitchell

You couldn't be more wrong.. its an intelligent post in a sea of mostly mindless, mind-numbing bullshit. Definitely interesting to nerdy admins, programmers and hosts. Carry on!

Brad

[raymor]

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

Now this gives whole new dimension when you call someone "nginx fanboi" yet it's obviously how you are apache fanboi

Me - the guy who went line by line through the nginx code, testing to see why nginx sometimes seems faster, hoping to learn something and improve Apache by learning from nginx. (and I did learn nginx's secret - atimes).

Nginx fan boy - the guy who refuses to even LOOK at the test results, never mind actually do testing, for fear that the tests will show his dear nginx is not actually magical after all.

I don't know if that definition of fan boy applies to you. I don't remember the earlier thread as well as you seem to.
I use fan boy to mean someone dedicated to a particular team, person, or idea to the exclusion of reason and rational thought.
The guy who says "X is the best, better than everything else, for everything, perfect for everyone in every situation and nothing can ever be as good as X". That's very different thinking for "I like X, but Y seems to have an advantage. Let me learn more about what Y does right and see about improving X."

Originally Posted by Herbert Spencer

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation.

[ExtremeBank_Adam]

Originally Posted by raymor

In adult I'm best known for Strongbox, Throttlebox, and Clonebox. (Piratebox coming soon.)

Hmmmm... what is Piratebox?

[CaptainHowdy]

[Klen]

Originally Posted by raymor

Me - the guy who went line by line through the nginx code, testing to see why nginx sometimes seems faster, hoping to learn something and improve Apache by learning from nginx. (and I did learn nginx's secret - atimes).

Nginx fan boy - the guy who refuses to even LOOK at the test results, never mind actually do testing, for fear that the tests will show his dear nginx is not actually magical after all.

I don't know if that definition of fan boy applies to you. I don't remember the earlier thread as well as you seem to.
I use fan boy to mean someone dedicated to a particular team, person, or idea to the exclusion of reason and rational thought.
The guy who says "X is the best, better than everything else, for everything, perfect for everyone in every situation and nothing can ever be as good as X". That's very different thinking for "I like X, but Y seems to have an advantage. Let me learn more about what Y does right and see about improving X."

Lol what tests?I dont remember you ever posted any benchmark graphic.

[RazorSharpe]

http://httpd.apache.org/contributors/

Are you on there somewhere? Not being a dick, was genuinely wondering if you got credit on there. Looked for a Ray* and didn't find any.

Cheers ...

[alextokyo]

Originally Posted by raymor

As mentioned above, within an hour or so, at 1AM, they said they would comply with the license by including those two files, so it's cool now. That's assuming they DO start including the files as promised. Now I need to apologize to them for being an asshole about it.

[edgeprod]

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy

Haha, that pic always cracks me up for some reason.