Armed Forces Tea Party .....

[directfiesta]

... wonder what is next to disrespect this president ...

Marine faces boot for anti-Obama Facebook posts
Sgt. Gary Stein said he respects the office of the president, but does not agree with Obama's policies

SAN DIEGO ? A Marine sergeant who started a Facebook group that is openly critical of President Barack Obama and posted comments saying he will not follow the unlawful orders of the commander in chief is facing possible dismissal from the Corps.

The Marines on Wednesday told Sgt. Gary Stein ? a Camp Pendleton Marine who started the Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party ? that he is in violation of Pentagon policy barring troops from political activities.

Stein, a nine-year member of the Corps, said he started the page to encourage fellow service members to exercise their free speech rights. He has also criticized Defense Secretary Leon Panetta for his comments on Syria.

The Marine Corps said in a statement that Stein's commanding officer ordered a preliminary inquiry on March 8 after receiving allegations that Stein posted the political statements violating the Pentagon's directives.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46820717.../#.T2s_wdXN0jw

Seems that Obama will have to do a ' one-on-one' meeting to make sure that they are all OK with the orders comming from the top brass ...

NOTE: he joined 9 years ago, in the frenzy of the 9/11 event. He first facebook page was about the Health Care reform ... Seems that all what BUSH did was okay-dokay by him .

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

... wonder what is next to disrespect this president ...



Seems that Obama will have to do a ' one-on-one' meeting to make sure that they are all OK with the orders comming from the top brass ...

NOTE: he joined 9 years ago, in the frenzy of the 9/11 event. He first facebook page was about the Health Care reform ... Seems that all what BUSH did was okay-dokay by him .

And he is going to get in BIG trouble for it.... like he damn well should! Just like anyone that joins the military and knows the rules up front. It's like the people that joined the army, took the training and benefits, and then in 2002, suddenly had a problem with going to war and ran to Canada. If you join the military, you have to follow the UCMJ, and that is that.



.

[sperbonzo]

BTW, directfiesta, what do YOU think about Leon Panetta's comments on Syria? Are you cool with a president basically ignoring your elected representatives in congress,and using the approval of foreign countries to decide who to bomb, invade, etc...? Let's pretend a Republican is in office...


Interested as to your opinion...

[Rochard]

He might live in a democracy, but he signed away a portion of his rights when he signed up and agreed to be subject to the UCMJ. On top of this, he's in the Marines - and the USMC hates negative publicity.

He's about to have a huge dark green dick rammed up his ass.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

BTW, directfiesta, what do YOU think about Leon Panetta's comments on Syria? Are you cool with a president basically ignoring your elected representatives in congress,and using the approval of foreign countries to decide who to bomb, invade, etc...? Let's pretend a Republican is in office...


Interested as to your opinion...

LOL .. they sure cooked him well ....

Don`t need to pretend it is a republican president, or a dem congress or whatever ...

The basic premise is wrong : Syria is none of your business ... not more then was Lybia , Iraq ...

Now, if the US still wants to go and intervene, it would need approval of the congress, then go to UN/Nato with that mandate . Looks like Panetta is in reverse mode ...

Still, doing a 'so called no-fly zone ' ( ) will just continue to destabilize whatever stability is left in the middle-east and pout in power extremist religious dictatorial governments and supply optimum conditions for al-quaeda type of organisations to flourish and do terrorists acts ...

Lybia, that we no longer see in the US news, is a mess; country is splitting up between tribes, so called ' rebels ' are torturing citizens ( mainly blacks ) and so on.
In Syria, the ' good' rebels are torturing , then executing forces of the government ...

Why is the US so fucking concerned about Syria ( aside that they are on a list of enemies ) ... Did you act in South Africa during apartheid, or Congo - Darfour, or Rwanda, or Chile ( oups, you did but on the torturer side ) ...

Just stay home, take care of your problems, let others take care of theirs ....

[Fletch XXX]

nothing new or surprising, people hate obama so much they are willing to wear their uniform in public for the pats on the back of "serviing their country" meanwhile their honor consists of making facebook groups and pages claiming they have no loyalty to president etc...

"our finest?" out there PROTECTING OUR FREEDOM! (well on facebook making groups ) LOL

[DaddyHalbucks]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

Why is the US so fucking concerned about Syria ( aside that they are on a list of enemies ) ... Did you act in South Africa during apartheid, or Congo - Darfour, or Rwanda, or Chile ( oups, you did but on the torturer side ) ...

Just stay home, take care of your problems, let others take care of theirs ....

Syria is one of the world's biggest state sponsors of terrorism, that's why.

Hezbollah... ever heard of them?

[2MuchMark]

Lol - he should be expelled. Agree or not, you have to follow the orders of the commander in chief. His actions create doubt which weakens the Marines in general. Kicking him out does not violate is right to free speech.

[crockett]

It doesn't matter what his political beliefs are. He can be some retarded right wing idiot whom thinks Obama is a Muslim or a alien from Mars.

He can't however state he won't follow follows the orders of his superiors or the commander in chief.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by DaddyHalbucks

Syria is one of the world's biggest state sponsors of terrorism, that's why.

Hezbollah... ever heard of them?

brainwash has spoken ... in the name of the poor people ...

So then why do you attack Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia then ... ???

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Originally Posted by directfiesta

... wonder what is next to disrespect this president ...

Seems that Obama will have to do a ' one-on-one' meeting to make sure that they are all OK with the orders comming from the top brass ...

NOTE: he joined 9 years ago, in the frenzy of the 9/11 event. He first facebook page was about the Health Care reform ... Seems that all what BUSH did was okay-dokay by him .

Originally Posted by **********

Lol - he should be expelled. Agree or not, you have to follow the orders of the commander in chief. His actions create doubt which weakens the Marines in general. Kicking him out does not violate is right to free speech.

Originally Posted by crockett

It doesn't matter what his political beliefs are. He can be some retarded right wing idiot whom thinks Obama is a Muslim or a alien from Mars.

He can't however state he won't follow follows the orders of his superiors or the commander in chief.

Just to clarify (and the USMC Sargent absolutely should know this), the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) does not tell you that you have to follow unlawful orders. Just the opposite, you can be prosecuted if you follow orders which are illegal.

The Sarge is about to learn what Military Justice is all about...

I was very outspoken during my six years in the Navy, but I was always clear where the line was drawn between free speech and military duty, and I was careful not to cross that line.

A good explanation about the UCMJ and lawful/unlawful orders.

When one enlists in the United States Military, active duty or reserve, they take the following oath:

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

National Guard enlisted members take a similar oath, except they also swear to obey the orders of the Governor of their state.

Officers, upon commission, swear to the following:

I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

Military discipline and effectiveness is built on the foundation of obedience to orders. Recruits are taught to obey, immediately and without question, orders from their superiors, right from day-one of boot camp.

Military members who fail to obey the lawful orders of their superiors risk serious consequences. Article 90 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) makes it a crime for a military member to WILLFULLY disobey a superior commissioned officer. Article 91 makes it a crime to WILLFULLY disobey a superior Noncommissioned or Warrant Officer. Article 92 makes it a crime to disobey any lawful order (the disobedience does not have to be "willful" under this article).

In fact, under Article 90, during times of war, a military member who willfully disobeys a superior commissioned officer can be sentenced to death.

Seems like pretty good motivation to obey any order you're given, right? Nope. These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders -- if the order was illegal.

"I was only following orders," has been unsuccessfully used as a legal defense in hundreds of cases (probably most notably by Nazi leaders at the Nuremberg tribunals following World War II). The defense didn't work for them, nor has it worked in hundreds of cases since.

The first recorded case of a United States Military officer using the "I was only following orders" defense dates back to 1799. During the War with France, Congress passed a law making it permissible to seize ships bound to any French Port. However, when President John Adams wrote the order to authorize the U.S. Navy to do so, he wrote that Navy ships were authorized to seize any vessel bound for a French port, or traveling from a French port.

Pursuant to the President's instructions, a U.S. Navy captain seized a Danish Ship (the Flying Fish), which was en route from a French Port. The owners of the ship sued the Navy captain in U.S. maritime court for trespass. They won, and the United States Supreme Court upheld the decision. The U.S. Supreme Court held that Navy commanders "act at their own peril" when obeying presidential orders when such orders are illegal.

The Vietnam War presented the United States military courts with more cases of the "I was only following orders" defense than any previous conflict. The decisions during these cases reaffirmed that following manifestly illegal orders is not a viable defense from criminal prosecution. In United States v. Keenan, the accused (Keenan) was found guilty of murder after he obeyed in order to shoot and kill an elderly Vietnamese citizen.

The Court of Military Appeals held that "the justification for acts done pursuant to orders does not exist if the order was of such a nature that a man of ordinary sense and understanding would know it to be illegal." (Interestingly, the soldier who gave Keenan the order, Corporal Luczko, was acquitted by reason of insanity).

Probably the most famous case of the "I was only following orders" defense was the court-martial (and conviction for premeditated murder) of First Lieutenant William Calley for his part in the My Lai Massacre on March 16, 1968. The military court rejected Calley's argument of obeying the order of his superiors. On March 29, 1971, Calley was sentenced to life in prison. However, the public outcry in the United States following this very publicized and controversial trial was such that President Nixon granted him clemency. Calley wound up spending 3 1/2 years under house arrest at Fort Benning Georgia, where a federal judge ultimately ordered his release.

In 2004, the military began court-martials of several military members deployed to Iraq for mistreating prisoners and detainees. Several members claimed that they were only following the orders of military intelligence officials. Unfortunately (for them), that defense won't fly. The mistreatment of prisoners is a crime under both international law, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice (see Article 93 ? Cruelty and Maltreatment).

It's clear, under military law, that military members can be held accountable for crimes committed under the guise of "obeying orders," and there is no requirement to obey orders which are unlawful. However, here's the rub: A military member disobeys such orders at his/her own peril. Ultimately, it's not whether or not the military member thinks the order is illegal or unlawful, it's whether military superiors (and courts) think the order was illegal or unlawful.

Take the case of Michael New. In 1995, Spec-4 Michael New was serving with the 1/15 Battalion of the 3rd infantry Division of the U.S. Army at Schweinfurt, Germany. When assigned as part of a multi-national peacekeeping mission about to be deployed to Macedonia, Spec-4 New and the other soldiers in his unit were ordered to wear United Nations (U.N.) Helmets and arm bands.

New refused the order, contending that it was an illegal order. New's superiors disagreed. Ultimately, so did the court-martial panel. New was found guilty of disobeying a lawful order and sentenced to a bad conduct discharge. The Army Court of Criminal Appeals upheld the conviction, as did the Court of Appeals of the Armed Forces.

What about an order to participate in a dangerous mission? Can the military legally order one to go on a "suicide mission?" You bet they can.

In October 2004, the Army announced that they it were investigating up to 19 members of a platoon from the 343rd Quartermaster Company based in Rock Hill, South Carolina, for refusing to transport supplies in a dangerous area of Iraq.

According to family members, some of the troops thought the mission was "too dangerous" because their vehicles were unarmored (or had little armor), and the route they were scheduled to take is one of the most dangerous in Iraq.

According to reports, these members simply failed to show up for the pre-departure briefing for the mission.

Can they be punished for this? They certainly can. An order to perform a dangerous mission is lawful, because it's not an order to commit a crime. Under current law, and the Manual for Courts-Martial, "An order requiring the performance of a military duty or act may be inferred to be lawful and it is disobeyed at the peril of the subordinate. This inference does not apply to a patently illegal order, such as one that directs the commission of a crime."

In fact, if it can be shown that one or more of the soldiers influenced others to disobey, they may find the crime of Mutiny, under Article 94 added to the list of charges. Mutiny carries the death penalty, even in "peace time."

So, to obey, or not to obey? It depends on the order. Military members disobey orders at their own risk. They also obey orders at their own risk. An order to commit a crime is unlawful. An order to perform a military duty, no matter how dangerous is lawful, as long as it doesn't involve commission of a crime.

ADG

[12clicks]

When you are one of the commanded, you don't bad mouth your commander in chief.

[Rochard]

Exactly what order he considers unlawful that he's refusing?