Wealthy Americans Avoided Paying Income Tax

[Barefootsies]

Put Obama on the case....

The richest woman in Wisconsin, Diane Hendricks, is worth an estimated $2.8 billion, but she did not pay a dime in state income tax in 2010, the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel first reported.

Because of a change in how her company, ABC Supply Inc., the country's largest distributor of roofing, windows and siding, is structured, Hendricks reduced her personal state income tax burden from $2.3 million in 2009 to zero in 2010, according to records the state Department of Revenue released to the Journal-Sentinel.

While a tweak in ABC's corporate structure allowed its CEO to get out of state income taxes, a complex web of deductions and exemptions in the federal tax code have allowed more than 20,000 wealthy tax filers get off the hook on paying federal income taxes.

A recent IRS report showed that 20,752 households that reported earning more than $200,000 in 2009 paid no federal income taxes. About 1,500 of those tax-free Americans were millionaires.

So how does someone in the top 3 percent of America's income earners finagle their income tax burden down to zero? For the majority of them, it's all about donating to charity, investing in local and state governments, earning money overseas and writing off doctor bills.
In Hendricks' Wisconsin case, ABC Supply switched from an "S" corporation, which passes all of its profits and losses through its owner to be taxed under personal income, to a "C" corporation, which stands independently of its owner and whose income is subject to corporate taxes.

Scott Bianchini, ABC tax director, told the Journal-Sentinel that the switch was a "substantial part" of why Hendricks had no state income tax liability. Bianchini noted that while Hendricks' tax burden was minuscule this year, the billionaire has paid more than $10 million in taxes since 2005.

On the federal level, the nearly 21,000 high-income earners who aren't paying federal income tax represent only one half of one percent of the 4 million tax filers that make up the top 3 percent.
They account for an even smaller fraction of the 59 million tax filers who did not pay income tax in 2009. The vast majority - 56 million - of the people who skipped out on these income taxes earned less than $50,000 per year.

"It's tiny," Williams said of number of wealthy Americans who are income tax-free. "But these are the ones people get upset about."

In 1969, Congress was so up in arms about a mere 155 individuals who earned more than $200,000 and paid no income tax that it passed the Alternative Minimum Tax, which aims to prevent wealthy people from claiming too many tax exemptions and deductions.

More than 40 years after the AMT went into effect, the number of wealthy, income-tax-free individuals has ballooned to 133 times as many as the 155 that inspired the new tax.
In the 2012 battle for the White House, President Obama has made taxing these wealthy Americans a cornerstone of his re-election campaign.

Under Obama's tax plan, the Bush tax cuts would expire, raising taxes for married couples earning more than $212,300 by 3 percentage points. Obama also plans to enact the "Buffett Rule," which creates a minimum tax rate of 30 percent for millionaires.
Mitt Romney takes a virtually opposite approach to tax reform for the wealthy.

His plan not only extends the Bush tax cuts, but further reduces tax rates at all income levels by 20 percent, which puts the tax rate for those making more than $200,000 at about 28 percent. Romney ardently opposes instituting a minimum tax for millionaires, such as the Buffett Rule.

Under Obama's plan, the top 1 percent of income earners would see their taxes go up about 5 percent. Under Romney's plan, they would go down by nearly 8 percent, according to an analysis by the Tax Policy Center.

And as for the 21,000 wealthy Americans who currently pay no income tax, Williams said, "Under Obama's plan, these people would almost certainly pay more. Under Romney's, they will almost certainly pay less."

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[Robbie]

I wonder how much she paid the state in property taxes, business licensing, and fees? Probably more than 100 "normal" citizens all put together.

[pornguy]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wonder how much she paid the state in property taxes, business licensing, and fees? Probably more than 100 "normal" citizens all put together.

Hey. Whoa.. wait a second. Dont come here talking sense and all that BS..

[geedub]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wonder how much she paid the state in property taxes, business licensing, and fees? Probably more than 100 "normal" citizens all put together.

No poor person will ever think about that.

[Tom_PM]

All I know is.. the rich pay too much already, the rich dont pay enough, poor people dont pay a dime, the rich pay for all the poor, even if the rich pay no income taxes they pay other taxes that make up for it, the so-called middle income people pay too high a percentage, and also dont pay enough volume of dollars into the system, if you're not making it it's because your a loser, the rich people create jobs but they wont hire losers, if you go on welfare you're a loser, if you go on welfare the rich are paying it, if your family has paid into social programs for a couple of generations it doesnt matter; the rich are paying it.

I'm sure I'm missing some other fine points. But it seems if you're rich you're paying too much, shouldnt have to pay, if you dont pay it's made up in other payments, and you're paying for everyone else so everyone else should stop complaining. Also you're not paying enough, should have to pay higher percentages, shouldnt have to pay more and the percentages should be lower. You create jobs, but no jobs are created for those who can't get a job when it's created.

[DudeRick]

Of course they did. They are already paying most of the taxes collected in this country Their tired of supporting the 50% of this country that pays nothing!

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

All I know is.. the rich pay too much already, the rich dont pay enough, poor people dont pay a dime, the rich pay for all the poor, even if the rich pay no income taxes they pay other taxes that make up for it, the so-called middle income people pay too high a percentage, and also dont pay enough volume of dollars into the system, if you're not making it it's because your a loser, the rich people create jobs but they wont hire losers, if you go on welfare you're a loser, if you go on welfare the rich are paying it, if your family has paid into social programs for a couple of generations it doesnt matter; the rich are paying it.

I'm sure I'm missing some other fine points. But it seems if you're rich you're paying too much, shouldnt have to pay, if you dont pay it's made up in other payments, and you're paying for everyone else so everyone else should stop complaining. Also you're not paying enough, should have to pay higher percentages, shouldnt have to pay more and the percentages should be lower. You create jobs, but no jobs are created for those who can't get a job when it's created.

^


.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

I'm sure I'm missing some other fine points. But it seems if you're rich you're paying too much, shouldnt have to pay, if you dont pay it's made up in other payments, and you're paying for everyone else so everyone else should stop complaining. Also you're not paying enough, should have to pay higher percentages, shouldnt have to pay more and the percentages should be lower. You create jobs, but no jobs are created for those who can't get a job when it's created.

Don't say such madness.... you'll wake up 12clicks.

[Tom_PM]

Our system is so screwed with fee's and weird tax laws that it's hard to make a purposefully nonsense post about it. Lets all chip in a buck and call it a day.

[- Jesus Christ -]

The whole "poor people are leeching off the system" is the argument of someone who has never even made the slightest effort to research what the government spends the most money on.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wonder how much she paid the state in property taxes, business licensing, and fees? Probably more than 100 "normal" citizens all put together.

I'm for completely free markets, but that is a lame statement.
Are you trying to say the average person should pay both but the ultra rich should only pay one? That makes no sense.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wonder how much she paid the state in property taxes, business licensing, and fees? Probably more than 100 "normal" citizens all put together.

yes and investing in government

[woj]

that article is only half true, she may have paid no personal income tax, but her company paid the tax instead... which at the end of the day came out of her pocket anyway, so in effect she paid it...

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Our system is so screwed with fee's and weird tax laws that it's hard to make a purposefully nonsense post about it. Lets all chip in a buck and call it a day.

SHHHHHHHHH......!! C'mon Tom, I wanted to see people argue about your post!!


Now you went and ruined it!


.


.

[u-Bob]

Can you blame them?

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by woj

that article is only half true, she may have paid no personal income tax, but her company paid the tax instead... which at the end of the day came out of her pocket anyway, so in effect she paid it...

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by - Jesus Christ -

I'm for completely free markets, but that is a lame statement.
Are you trying to say the average person should pay both but the ultra rich should only pay one? That makes no sense.

The "average" person doesn't pay ANY property taxes because they rent instead of own.

I help pay for EVERYBODIES kids to go to public school here in Vegas (property tax)...even though the majority of them don't have parents who own property and do NOT contribute.

I also spend more money than the "average" person. So I pay many times more in sales tax (state, local...and in the case of gasoline: federal).

I also contribute to the economy more than the "average" person because I spend that money. So I help to create demand and jobs.

I also pay the state a ton of licensing fees because I OWN my business. The "average" person works for somebody else and doesn't have to worry with that.

If the people of Wisconsin were smart...they would do everything in their power to make sure that billionaire doesn't leave. It's people like her that make the world go 'round.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Robbie

The "average" person doesn't pay ANY property taxes because they rent instead of own.

I help pay for EVERYBODIES kids to go to public school here in Vegas (property tax)...even though the majority of them don't have parents who own property and do NOT contribute.

I also spend more money than the "average" person. So I pay many times more in sales tax (state, local...and in the case of gasoline: federal).

I also contribute to the economy more than the "average" person because I spend that money. So I help to create demand and jobs.

I also pay the state a ton of licensing fees because I OWN my business. The "average" person works for somebody else and doesn't have to worry with that.

If the people of Wisconsin were smart...they would do everything in their power to make sure that billionaire doesn't leave. It's people like her that make the world go 'round.

society wouldn't work if everyone ran their own business. and as of 2009 "67.4% of all occupied housing units being occupied by the unit's owner" in the US. also should mention that business owners have many options when it comes to avoiding taxes to a degree, while employees have zero. they don't even see that money.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I help pay for EVERYBODIES kids to go to public school here in Vegas (property tax)...even though the majority of them don't have parents who own property and do NOT contribute.

I pay around a thousand a month in property taxes. I also pay education tax, business license tax, 3% county tax and 6% income tax in a state I don't even live in. (Property owner)

.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

society wouldn't work if everyone ran their own business. and as of 2009 "67.4% of all occupied housing units being occupied by the unit's owner" in the US. also should mention that business owners have many options when it comes to avoiding taxes to a degree, while employees have zero. they don't even see that money.

Wrong. Most employees get tax refunds.

As an employer...I not only have NEVER had a "refund", but I also have to pay matching taxes for my employees...

Nobody "avoids" anything. If you have write-offs...it still means the money is GONE (spent).

And I just saw on the news that so many homes have been foreclosed on that home ownership is at it's LOWEST. People renting are at their highest.

When you actually own your own home AND your own business...then you will see that the biggest expense you have is: the govt. (taxes). It runs up the cost of everything.

And where do my taxes go? I would hope they would go to help the children and the poor and the infrastructure. lol
Sorry, I couldn't say that with a straight face...I think everybody knows that our tax dollars are mostly wasted and go into politicians pockets: big salaries, office buildings, etc.
Nevada is in a lot of trouble. So is the city of Las Vegas. And yet...yet...with all the worries about school funding and homelessness, etc. This happened:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012...ed-light-show/

A brand new big expensive city hall! Nice!

[Tom_PM]

The average renter also doesnt pay for lawn care, snow removal, garbage pick up, water, in some cases electric or gas or cable.

Of course they dont because the landlord pays it, and the landlord wouldnt pay it if they had no renters, and the rent would be lower if they didnt pay it.

You really can not use that as if millions of people "dont pay property taxes" because they do through their rent. Or are we to somehow believe that the landlords tax burden is seperate from their rental income?


You (everyone) should stop pretending that the VOLUME of dollars is important in the tax debate. It simply isn't. It's a matter of percentages, and that's ALL it is, and being honest you know it is. Naturally 10% of $1,000,000.00 is a larger stack of dollars than 10% of $1000.00.. That's actually NOT a helpful comment though when talking about taxes. It sure makes a loud sound, but it's really sort of.. unhelpful.

[BareBacked]

hire contractors

Originally Posted by Robbie

Wrong. Most employees get tax refunds.

As an employer...I not only have NEVER had a "refund", but I also have to pay matching taxes for my employees...

Nobody "avoids" anything. If you have write-offs...it still means the money is GONE (spent).

And I just saw on the news that so many homes have been foreclosed on that home ownership is at it's LOWEST. People renting are at their highest.

When you actually own your own home AND your own business...then you will see that the biggest expense you have is: the govt. (taxes). It runs up the cost of everything.

And where do my taxes go? I would hope they would go to help the children and the poor and the infrastructure. lol
Sorry, I couldn't say that with a straight face...I think everybody knows that our tax dollars are mostly wasted and go into politicians pockets: big salaries, office buildings, etc.
Nevada is in a lot of trouble. So is the city of Las Vegas. And yet...yet...with all the worries about school funding and homelessness, etc. This happened:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012...ed-light-show/

A brand new big expensive city hall! Nice!

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

You really can not use that as if millions of people "dont pay property taxes" because they do through their rent. Or are we to somehow believe that the landlords tax burden is seperate from their rental income?

Don't be foolish. I owned several commercial properties. My total property tax was LESS than IF each of my tenants had to pay it individually.

It's amazing how this discussion goes on and on.

Look, I've been on both sides. Just a guy barely getting by and renting an apartment...and a guy OWNING things.

I can honestly say that I had more DISPOSABLE income as a guy just getting by. These days...I have to watch every penny.

As far as income tax goes...I wish to GOD that all of you who get paid a salary and have your taxes taken out with ever seeing it...and then get a nice refund check at the end of the year AND have matching funds for your Social Security paid for by your employer: I wish that you would have to instead write a check to the govt. every 3 months like I do.

If everyone in the U.S. had to actually pay their own taxes...there would be a revolt in the streets. That's the evil genius of the govt. requiring your employer to pay your taxes out of your money before you ever see it.

If you had to actually write those checks, and never get any kind of "refund" and pay all the property taxes, licensing, inspection fees and other govt. headaches...it would be "us" against the govt. like it always was in the past.

Now? People don't see what's happening. So the govt. no longer has to worry about it's power being questioned.

Sorry y'all...I'm originally from the south. And my family NEVER trusts the govt. That's why everyone from my grandfather down to my brothers and cousins all made millions.
Get away from govt. dependency and power over your life and depend on yourself and you will find your full potential for success.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

You (everyone) should stop pretending that the VOLUME of dollars is important in the tax debate. It simply isn't. It's a matter of percentages, and that's ALL it is, and being honest you know it is. Naturally 10% of $1,000,000.00 is a larger stack of dollars than 10% of $1000.00.. That's actually NOT a helpful comment though when talking about taxes. It sure makes a loud sound, but it's really sort of.. unhelpful.

That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever read.

At the end of the day it is ALL about the "stack of dollars"

Do you run your business pretending that the actual amount of money doesn't matter? lol

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Wrong. Most employees get tax refunds.

As an employer...I not only have NEVER had a "refund", but I also have to pay matching taxes for my employees...

Nobody "avoids" anything. If you have write-offs...it still means the money is GONE (spent).

And I just saw on the news that so many homes have been foreclosed on that home ownership is at it's LOWEST. People renting are at their highest.

When you actually own your own home AND your own business...then you will see that the biggest expense you have is: the govt. (taxes). It runs up the cost of everything.

And where do my taxes go? I would hope they would go to help the children and the poor and the infrastructure. lol
Sorry, I couldn't say that with a straight face...I think everybody knows that our tax dollars are mostly wasted and go into politicians pockets: big salaries, office buildings, etc.
Nevada is in a lot of trouble. So is the city of Las Vegas. And yet...yet...with all the worries about school funding and homelessness, etc. This happened:
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012...ed-light-show/

A brand new big expensive city hall! Nice!

Sure they might get a refund of a few hundred to maybe even a thousand dollars but that is a measly amount compared to what they paid all year long. The only reason they get a refund is because their employeer took too much off for income taxes in the first place. A friend of mine who is a mechanic got a 250 dollar refund, does that mean he paid no taxes? hardly. he had roughly $10,000 taken from his paychecks through-out the year. They just over deducted slightly.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Don't be foolish. I owned several commercial properties. My total property tax was LESS than IF each of my tenants had to pay it individually.

It's amazing how this discussion goes on and on.

Look, I've been on both sides. Just a guy barely getting by and renting an apartment...and a guy OWNING things.

I can honestly say that I had more DISPOSABLE income as a guy just getting by. These days...I have to watch every penny.

As far as income tax goes...I wish to GOD that all of you who get paid a salary and have your taxes taken out with ever seeing it...and then get a nice refund check at the end of the year AND have matching funds for your Social Security paid for by your employer: I wish that you would have to instead write a check to the govt. every 3 months like I do.

If everyone in the U.S. had to actually pay their own taxes...there would be a revolt in the streets. That's the evil genius of the govt. requiring your employer to pay your taxes out of your money before you ever see it.

If you had to actually write those checks, and never get any kind of "refund" and pay all the property taxes, licensing, inspection fees and other govt. headaches...it would be "us" against the govt. like it always was in the past.

Now? People don't see what's happening. So the govt. no longer has to worry about it's power being questioned.

Sorry y'all...I'm originally from the south. And my family NEVER trusts the govt. That's why everyone from my grandfather down to my brothers and cousins all made millions.
Get away from govt. dependency and power over your life and depend on yourself and you will find your full potential for success.

it sucks when you see that money coming out, i know i just pay once per year and it blows but salary earners are losing the same amount, just spread out more. as for licencing fees, etc yeah that is different. can't say i've ever had to pay any but i'm just a one man business.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by Robbie

If everyone in the U.S. had to actually pay their own taxes...there would be a revolt in the streets. That's the evil genius of the govt. requiring your employer to pay your taxes out of your money before you ever see it.

If you had to actually write those checks, and never get any kind of "refund" and pay all the property taxes, licensing, inspection fees and other govt. headaches...it would be "us" against the govt. like it always was in the past.

Preach it Brotha!

I have ALWAYS said to people that withholding was the ultimate scam. It's almost the government equivalent of free trail continuity model. If everyone had to write a check on April 15th, (or every 3 months like we do), watch how people would actually start to pay attention to the massive massive MASSIVE amounts of waste and inefficiencies that the government not only get's away with, but actually ENCOURAGES in the thousands of agencies and bureaucracies they have created. (Yes, encourages. If your department actually saves money, you get a lower budget the next year, and no department head want's to LOSE power, they want their budgets to get bigger and bigger, even if that means they are doing so by wasting our money)

If your average Joe was forced to save all year, and then to cough up $10k or $15k (for the average salary) on April 15th each year, you can be DAMN sure they would be watching where it went.


.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

Sure they might get a refund of a few hundred to maybe even a thousand dollars but that is a measly amount compared to what they paid all year long. The only reason they get a refund is because their employeer took too much off for income taxes in the first place. A friend of mine who is a mechanic got a 250 dollar refund, does that mean he paid no taxes? hardly. he had roughly $10,000 taken from his paychecks through-out the year. They just over deducted slightly.

Exactly...except the employer is taking out the percentage that we are instructed to.

That way the U.S. Govt not only taxes us all...but it get to "double dip" on the Social Security by forcing employers to match it AND it gets to use the employees money for a year interest free before it gives them back a "refund"

And you know, every year people celebrate when they get their tax refund. They should actually be pissed off because they got fucked over.

The whole income tax set up is an amazing thing. The psychology of having the employer forced to basically provide tax services for their employees, match the SS funds, and then have the employees HAPPY for their refund is sheer genius.

And then the employees complain about the evil rich people.

The reality is we should all be pissed at the govt. They are the ones spending 13 BILLION dollars a day. They are the ones raping our society and turning us all into slaves.

This year "tax freedom day" was April 17th. That's the day in the U.S. where you finally start earning money for yourself instead of the govt. This year it was 4 days later than 2011.

So there's the reality. You worked from Jan 1st to April 17th for the U.S. govt.
Of course that doesn't count all the sales tax, drivers license fees, car registration, property tax, etc, etc, etc, et-fucking-cetra

[Tom_PM]

Originally Posted by Robbie

That's the most ridiculous statement I've ever read.

At the end of the day it is ALL about the "stack of dollars"

Do you run your business pretending that the actual amount of money doesn't matter? lol

It's not ridiculous. The tax system is not based on the amount of money you should pay, it's based on the percentage of taxable income. And please.. you know that is true. It's the absolute basics of the system we are working within. You simply can not pretend that if your stack of tax money is realllllllllly big, you should get special treatment. It doesn't work that way.

[Tom_PM]

Tax refunds only occur if the person receiving it has witholdings set too high. Give your employees a w4 form and have them adjust it. Ideally they should have very little coming back, or very little owed. Of course this is another obvious thing that is under each persons control, but if you have a lot of employees and dont want the gov. to earn interest on that money, informing your people how to adust it seems like a good idea.

[Tom_PM]

Hell I'm looking for a job, hire me and I'll set my witholdings to zero and set aside my own percentage in a seperate bank account.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Hell I'm looking for a job, hire me and I'll set my witholdings to zero and set aside my own percentage in a seperate bank account.

What are you looking for these days? I'll just 1099 you and you can handle your taxes however you wish!


Seriously though, Send me an email, when you get a chance, as to what you are looking for. I'm leaving my office and I'm outy for the weekend.


Asta later my peeps!


..

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wonder how much she paid the state in property taxes, business licensing, and fees? Probably more than 100 "normal" citizens all put together.

Oh so it's like going to a restaurant and you pick off the menu what you wish to pay? Millions of Americans are unaware of this and have been overpaying forever.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Robbie

The "average" person doesn't pay ANY property taxes because they rent instead of own.

There are no property taxes on rental properties? The property taxes are factored into the rent charged to and paid by the tenant. I grasped that concept in sixth grade.

So a renter IS paying property taxes unless they have a really stupid landlord.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by epitome

There are no property taxes on rental properties? The property taxes are factored into the rent charged to and paid by the tenant. I grasped that concept in sixth grade.

So a renter IS paying property taxes unless they have a really stupid landlord.

Jesus Christ. NO SHIT. The price of taxes are figured into EVERYTHING you pay for.

Goddamn, it's like talking to fence posts around here.

I give up. You guys are right. "Rich" people don't really pay the majority of the taxes. And govt. doesn't really waste money, drive up debt, and spend more money in a day than the biggest corporations on Earth make in a year.

Renters are really paying all property tax. And all the accountant bills, and all the risk and liability.

What was I thinking? I better get back to work so I can do my little share.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Jesus Christ. NO SHIT. The price of taxes are figured into EVERYTHING you pay for.

Goddamn, it's like talking to fence posts around here.

[Robbie]

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Jesus Christ. NO SHIT. The price of taxes are figured into EVERYTHING you pay for.

Goddamn, it's like talking to fence posts around here.

I give up. You guys are right. "Rich" people don't really pay the majority of the taxes. And govt. doesn't really waste money, drive up debt, and spend more money in a day than the biggest corporations on Earth make in a year.

Renters are really paying all property tax. And all the accountant bills, and all the risk and liability.

What was I thinking? I better get back to work so I can do my little share.

I've never argued they aren't paying the most. The more you make the more you pay. You were just trying to spin it as a renters money never makes it to the government when it does.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by epitome

I've never argued they aren't paying the most. The more you make the more you pay. You were just trying to spin it as a renters money never makes it to the government when it does.

I wasn't "spinning" anything. Renters do NOT pay their fair share. No fucking way. A guy who owns properties is responsible for all the property taxes for those properties and ALSO for his own home.

And in many states...there is also a yearly property tax on cars, boats, rv's, motorcycles, etc. The more money you have...the nicer your cars and home (fruits of your labor) and the more money you pay in with property taxes.

Not only that...but MANY people live in govt. assisted housing.

As I said earlier. When I rented and just played in my band for 20 years...I was pretty much carefree.
My apartment was furnished with utilities included for $500 a month down in Fla.
Later I rented a townhome in Myrtle Beach, SC for $500 a month unfurnished and had to pay utilities.
Then rented in Columbia, SC for $250 a month.
Rented a nice house with a big yard for $600 a month in Greer, SC

Then I got in the porn biz and started buying property and my own home.

Please believe me when I tell you it is MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.

Go out and buy your own home and you'll see. And the worst part is? With property tax, you NEVER really own your own home.

Even if you paid it off 100%. If something happens in your life where you can't pay the property tax...the govt. will TAKE your home.

Spinning.

Right. The only people "spinning" are the govt. They want to keep those nice jobs with the great benefits. In my opinion...there doesn't NEED to be a "city hall" Let those motherfuckers get REAL jobs and work for the city part time.

Govt. is the biggest "industry" in the world. Your local govt. handles more money than any other business in your city. Your county govt. handles more money than any biz in your county. Your state govt. handles more money than any biz in your state.
And the feds trump them all.

And they set it up in a way that WE are arguing with each other instead of looking at what the govt. is doing.

[BareBacked]

Originally Posted by Robbie

As far as income tax goes...I wish to GOD that all of you who get paid a salary and have your taxes taken out with ever seeing it...and then get a nice refund check at the end of the year AND have matching funds for your Social Security paid for by your employer: I wish that you would have to instead write a check to the govt. every 3 months like I do.

Call a payroll company and have them pay you as an employee. Problem solved

[Alex69]

face it, taxes are for poor and average people, rich always find a way to pay 0 or move out to country where tax is 0

so if you want progress and growth, tax rich at 0% so money stays in country and jobs are created

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wasn't "spinning" anything. Renters do NOT pay their fair share. No fucking way. A guy who owns properties is responsible for all the property taxes for those properties and ALSO for his own home.

And in many states...there is also a yearly property tax on cars, boats, rv's, motorcycles, etc. The more money you have...the nicer your cars and home (fruits of your labor) and the more money you pay in with property taxes.

Not only that...but MANY people live in govt. assisted housing.

As I said earlier. When I rented and just played in my band for 20 years...I was pretty much carefree.
My apartment was furnished with utilities included for $500 a month down in Fla.
Later I rented a townhome in Myrtle Beach, SC for $500 a month unfurnished and had to pay utilities.
Then rented in Columbia, SC for $250 a month.
Rented a nice house with a big yard for $600 a month in Greer, SC

Then I got in the porn biz and started buying property and my own home.

Please believe me when I tell you it is MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.

Go out and buy your own home and you'll see. And the worst part is? With property tax, you NEVER really own your own home.

Even if you paid it off 100%. If something happens in your life where you can't pay the property tax...the govt. will TAKE your home.

Spinning.

Right. The only people "spinning" are the govt. They want to keep those nice jobs with the great benefits. In my opinion...there doesn't NEED to be a "city hall" Let those motherfuckers get REAL jobs and work for the city part time.

Govt. is the biggest "industry" in the world. Your local govt. handles more money than any other business in your city. Your county govt. handles more money than any biz in your county. Your state govt. handles more money than any biz in your state.
And the feds trump them all.

And they set it up in a way that WE are arguing with each other instead of looking at what the govt. is doing.

I can agree that income taxes are a fuck job but think that despite people who earn less, pay less it hurts them just as much as rich, if not more. and i don't know when the last time you rented was but here in canada, things are much different. i own now but a couple years ago was renting a 3 bedroom townhouse built in the 70's for 1200 a month. thats not far off as a mortgage for 275-300k home.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wasn't "spinning" anything. Renters do NOT pay their fair share. No fucking way. A guy who owns properties is responsible for all the property taxes for those properties and ALSO for his own home.

And in many states...there is also a yearly property tax on cars, boats, rv's, motorcycles, etc. The more money you have...the nicer your cars and home (fruits of your labor) and the more money you pay in with property taxes.

Not only that...but MANY people live in govt. assisted housing.

As I said earlier. When I rented and just played in my band for 20 years...I was pretty much carefree.
My apartment was furnished with utilities included for $500 a month down in Fla.
Later I rented a townhome in Myrtle Beach, SC for $500 a month unfurnished and had to pay utilities.
Then rented in Columbia, SC for $250 a month.
Rented a nice house with a big yard for $600 a month in Greer, SC

Then I got in the porn biz and started buying property and my own home.

Please believe me when I tell you it is MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE.

Go out and buy your own home and you'll see. And the worst part is? With property tax, you NEVER really own your own home.

Even if you paid it off 100%. If something happens in your life where you can't pay the property tax...the govt. will TAKE your home.

Spinning.

Right. The only people "spinning" are the govt. They want to keep those nice jobs with the great benefits. In my opinion...there doesn't NEED to be a "city hall" Let those motherfuckers get REAL jobs and work for the city part time.

Govt. is the biggest "industry" in the world. Your local govt. handles more money than any other business in your city. Your county govt. handles more money than any biz in your county. Your state govt. handles more money than any biz in your state.
And the feds trump them all.

And they set it up in a way that WE are arguing with each other instead of looking at what the govt. is doing.

you're using examples from years ago. Not only am I a licensed real estate agent, I owned a property management company back in Maryland. I did all of the leasing, collected the rent, had repairs done, paid taxes and sent what was left over to the owner. Very rarely were they not getting a check. Sounds like you are not too smart of a landlord if you're getting screwed, or you should have hired me since apparently I knew what I was doing and you must not.

[Due]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I wonder how much she paid the state in property taxes, business licensing, and fees? Probably more than 100 "normal" citizens all put together.

Or taxes for employing people. As well as unemployed taxes for the people you do not have on payroll. Seems like the extra rate you gotta pay on top of a normal payroll is about an extra 10%

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by epitome

you're using examples from years ago. Not only am I a licensed real estate agent, I owned a property management company back in Maryland. I did all of the leasing, collected the rent, had repairs done, paid taxes and sent what was left over to the owner. Very rarely were they not getting a check. Sounds like you are not too smart of a landlord if you're getting screwed, or you should have hired me since apparently I knew what I was doing and you must not.

Yeah...that's it. You're obviously far more successful in life than I am and know much, much more...oh wait a minute. You had a job as a real estate agent. "Nuff said. heh-heh

[Socks]

And as for the 21,000 wealthy Americans who currently pay no income tax, Williams said, "Under Obama's plan, these people would almost certainly pay more. Under Romney's, they will almost certainly pay less."

Pay less than... nothing? How does that work.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Socks

Pay less than... nothing? How does that work.

I don't know, but sign me up! heh-heh

These reports say they pay nothing. I say "bullshit". They are either paying personally or through their company straight up. And of course the aforementioned property, local, county, and state money being stolen...er, I mean taken....er, I mean taxed on them.

I think we should have a flat tax. 15% would do the trick.
If I make $100,000 I pay $15,000 in taxes. No tricks, no accountants.
If I make $1,000,000 I pay $150,000 in taxes.
I I make $50,000 I pay $7,500 in taxes.

Everybody contributes. The rich pay a LOT more obviously and get no more "services" (lol) from the govt (and probably a lot LESS since they don't leach off the public dole)

Nobody gets away with paying nothing. And revenue rises.

Of course you could tax everyone 100% of what they make and it still can't keep up with govt. spending. That shit has got to stop.

[Due]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

I can agree that income taxes are a fuck job but think that despite people who earn less, pay less it hurts them just as much as rich, if not more. and i don't know when the last time you rented was but here in canada, things are much different. i own now but a couple years ago was renting a 3 bedroom townhouse built in the 70's for 1200 a month. thats not far off as a mortgage for 275-300k home.

My mortgage is about 1600 / month, I have a 3.75% APR interest rate (which is is nearly impossible to beat). Total after taxes it is about 2400 / month for just taxes and the mortgage.
We build the house last year, last month I got a suplemental tax bill for about 1500 for proberty value increase or something like that.
On top there is trash, HOAs and all the regular maintenance.

I would love to see where you can get buy a 300K house and pay only 1200 / month. I would probably reconsider investing in real-estate if that is possible.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Due

My mortgage is about 1600 / month, I have a 3.75% APR interest rate (which is is nearly impossible to beat). Total after taxes it is about 2400 / month for just taxes and the mortgage.
We build the house last year, last month I got a suplemental tax bill for about 1500 for proberty value increase or something like that.
On top there is trash, HOAs and all the regular maintenance.

I would love to see where you can get buy a 300K house and pay only 1200 / month. I would probably reconsider investing in real-estate if that is possible.

And that is reality. And a tremendous interest rate! You did good!

Mine is 7.5% (bought my house right before the market crashed). My mortgage is $4,651 a month. Plus $120 for HOA. It's crazy. And then I get taxes thrown at me from every direction

[Robbie]

Hey epitome...sorry for coming off like a dick in my last reply directed at you. Got caught up in the moment of the discussion. Didn't mean to be a disrespectful jerk.

[BareBacked]

Originally Posted by Due

My mortgage is about 1600 / month, I have a 3.75% APR interest rate (which is is nearly impossible to beat). Total after taxes it is about 2400 / month for just taxes and the mortgage.
We build the house last year, last month I got a suplemental tax bill for about 1500 for proberty value increase or something like that.
On top there is trash, HOAs and all the regular maintenance.

I would love to see where you can get buy a 300K house and pay only 1200 / month. I would probably reconsider investing in real-estate if that is possible.

What $800 a month in Tax on a APPROX $300k loan ? ? Where on earth do you live?