does anyone know why apple makes product with non-removable batteries?

[Joshua G]

i will try not to be cynical & say its because lithium ion batteries degrade & they want to force their consumers to buy new product...

they are so determined to do this with the retina macbook, they withdrew from EPEAT (which they just reversed after public reaction)

so what is the consumer benefit from a $2000 plus computer with a non-removable battery that inevitably works like shit?

[johnnyloadproductions]

Making the battery integrated into the machine allows it to weigh less as they can design it that way.
Also, by making batteries difficult to take out this forces people to send it out without voiding the warranty, making more money.

In order to change my iPhone 3gs the entire thing at to be gutted and completely disassembled. Not fun.
Buy it, use it, it's seamless; that's apple's philosophy.

[NETbilling]

Whatever the reason they sure are doing something right

[2MuchMark]

I've had my my Macbook for over 3 years now and I still get about 5 hours use out of its batters (almost 6 if I dim the screen). Tracy's iPad batteries seem to last forever too, and I've never once run out of juice on my iPhone. Maybe making the batteries removable isn't necessary?

[MrMaxwell]

Originally Posted by **********

I've had my my Macbook for over 3 years now and I still get about 5 hours use out of its batters (almost 6 if I dim the screen). Tracy's iPad batteries seem to last forever too, and I've never once run out of juice on my iPhone. Maybe making the batteries removable isn't necessary?

Well, not for you, apparently. .

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by **********

I've had my my Macbook for over 3 years now and I still get about 5 hours use out of its batters (almost 6 if I dim the screen). Tracy's iPad batteries seem to last forever too, and I've never once run out of juice on my iPhone. Maybe making the batteries removable isn't necessary?

its just a matter of time my friend...

A Standard (Cobalt) Li-ion cell that is full most of the time at 25 °C (77 °F) irreversibly loses approximately 20% capacity per year. Poor ventilation may increase temperatures, further shortening battery life. Loss rates vary by temperature: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%?60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, and 15%, respectively.

If overheated or overcharged, Li-ion batteries may suffer thermal runaway and cell rupture. In extreme cases this can lead to combustion. Deep discharge may short-circuit the cell, in which case recharging would be unsafe.

[johnnyloadproductions]

Originally Posted by **********

I've had my my Macbook for over 3 years now and I still get about 5 hours use out of its batters (almost 6 if I dim the screen). Tracy's iPad batteries seem to last forever too, and I've never once run out of juice on my iPhone. Maybe making the batteries removable isn't necessary?

Most people never go beyond 4 years on a laptop. The reason I changed the iPhone 3GS battery is because it'd go through 1-2 discharges a day (heavy user). It got the point where it would just shut off around 60%.

Apple knows this.

[Joshua G]

i just can't help but be cynical.

back in 04 i had an imac with panther & FCP 4. Then apple released tiger. FCP 4 does not work on tiger, you had to buy their new FCP studio at full price if you upgrade from panther to tiger.

as a result of this, i junked the imac & wont use apple again, as i refuse to buy new software every time they upgrade hardware or the OS.

[AllAboutCams]

my last macbook battery lasted nearly 3 years i dont see a problem

[johnnyloadproductions]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

i just can't help but be cynical.

back in 04 i had an imac with panther & FCP 4. Then apple released tiger. FCP 4 does not work on tiger, you had to buy their new FCP studio at full price if you upgrade from panther to tiger.

as a result of this, i junked the imac & wont use apple again, as i refuse to buy new software every time they upgrade hardware or the OS.

Hence the saying "The Forced Upgrade."

[Sunny Day]

My Macbook Pro had removable batteries and in 4 years had to buy 2 replacements. needs a third, but don't use it any more.
Got almost 3 years out of the iphone and the battery still worked. The top button quit so I just replaced it figuring the battery might go at any time.

As for my Air, I found a website ifixit.org. They have detailed photos on how to change batteries. I plan to replace my own battery. I can't go a week waiting on Apple to replace my battery. Probably should have fixed the phone, but for $39 for a new one, why not.

[FoxtrotAlpha]

Another reason they don't make batteries removable is to avoid competition in that area.

If you could remove an iPhone's battery, for example, companies would begin producing 'alternative', larger batteries which you can buy and use instead.

If that were the case, apple would have no control over the quality/standard of third-party batteries, meaning its likely some somewhere would cause issues with the phone one day. Then apple would begin getting complaints they cannot deal with.

They prefer having full control over everything so they can be sure their devices never have issues.

[mikke]

Originally Posted by **********

I've had my my Macbook for over 3 years now and I still get about 5 hours use out of its batters (almost 6 if I dim the screen).

my battery in macbook died after 6y of using, in iphone died after 4y.. so its not so bad!!

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotAlpha

Another reason they don't make batteries removable is to avoid competition in that area.

If you could remove an iPhone's battery, for example, companies would begin producing 'alternative', larger batteries which you can buy and use instead.

If that were the case, apple would have no control over the quality/standard of third-party batteries, meaning its likely some somewhere would cause issues with the phone one day. Then apple would begin getting complaints they cannot deal with.

They prefer having full control over everything so they can be sure their devices never have issues.

thats a pretty good answer. but it does not disarm my skepticism because most products, cameras, phones, laptops, have removable batteries. doesnt seem to be a big problem for the electronics industry in general.

i think your reply & other one does answer the question - apple is a control freak. But i still think some beancounter inside apple determined that X more profit can be made by making their batteries permanent.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by mikke

my battery in macbook died after 6y of using, in iphone died after 4y.. so its not so bad!!

not in my opinion. when i drop 4 figures on a machine, i would like it to last as long as i maintain it well. there was a time in the past when manufacturers built products that last decades. But of course, theres less profit in that, right?

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by johnnyloadproductions

Hence the saying "The Forced Upgrade."

you know, i bought FCP 4 at full price, $1000, about 12 months before apple rolled tiger & FCP studio. I felt completely ripped off that i would have to pay a second thousand, plus the cost of tiger, if i wanted to stay current. No fucking way.

[Colmike9]

I used to work for Apple and the engineers never told me why or much anything really..

But yeah, probably because of the shape, but that's really just an excuse to force replacement..

They will happily sell you Applecare to replace it if it's 3 years or less or within the first year hardware warranty.

[Sunny Day]

I think it has to do more with USER EXPERIENCE, Apple is trying to create the USER EXPERIENCE that people in the US had in the 1940-50-60's. About 80-90% of the population had AT&T. You pick up the phone dial a number, you get the person you dialed. Phone doesn't work, use a neighbor's or go to the local AT&T office and let them know. That day or next a serviceman came & fixed your phone for free.
A great majority of people just want a computer that works, they don't care how it works. Hell, I had an Osburne computer that ran on CP/M. Couldn't figure out how to save a simple database/label file. Had to call a friend who did tech work on NORAD computers. Answer was Control+C. Why wasn't that in the HELP? Like trying to learn how to drive and the teacher forgot to tell why the brakes were.
There are times Apple won't tell you the simplest things like how to view on you big monitor instead of the laptop screen, but the hours I fought Windows were way too many.
I still run Windows on Parallels as there are 4 programs that nobody has been smart enough to create Apple versions. One is a guy that had an Apple version but still hasn't created a Lion version.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by Sunny Day

I think it has to do more with USER EXPERIENCE, Apple is trying to create the USER EXPERIENCE that people in the US had in the 1940-50-60's. About 80-90% of the population had AT&T. You pick up the phone dial a number, you get the person you dialed. Phone doesn't work, use a neighbor's or go to the local AT&T office and let them know. That day or next a serviceman came & fixed your phone for free.
A great majority of people just want a computer that works, they don't care how it works. Hell, I had an Osburne computer that ran on CP/M. Couldn't figure out how to save a simple database/label file. Had to call a friend who did tech work on NORAD computers. Answer was Control+C. Why wasn't that in the HELP? Like trying to learn how to drive and the teacher forgot to tell why the brakes were.
There are times Apple won't tell you the simplest things like how to view on you big monitor instead of the laptop screen, but the hours I fought Windows were way too many.
I still run Windows on Parallels as there are 4 programs that nobody has been smart enough to create Apple versions. One is a guy that had an Apple version but still hasn't created a Lion version.

yeah...user experience, control. your probably on the money. I still think profit motive, since it works in conjunction with those goals, is an inside reason.

i am very impressed with apples product when i swing through an apple store at the mall. but these things they do, forced upgrades, forced batteries, im not rich, & dont want to be buying new shit every 3 years. prefer to get the most out of my money.

[Sly]

Simple answer: because they can and fan bois will applaud them for it.

[Sunny Day]

I like control. I like my emails on my computer as who knows who will fall next. Compuserve, AOL & the next, maybe Google??
But At&T did give a USER EXPERIENCE, example of their 1960's ads where a small, lost boy calls Operator at a payphone. Within minutes the Operator got the police and his mom. Apple is Fucking expensive, but my new iPad had issues. Went to the Apple store, no hassles, have a new one. Can't say that with my new $400 Sony camera. If I'm lucky they might fix or replace a brand new camera that all functions are failing.
But I will replace my Air battery when needed. It's a trade-off. But I just found Windows sucking up too much time. I once had to re-install Windows 98 10 times in one day as Format C;/ really doesn't mean that. Leaves a few million meg of the crap you're trying to remove. All over the fucking printer drivers.
Granted if I start over on a Mac, I spend a few hours upgrading and setting preferences, but in Windows I'll spend 36 sleepless hours setting up a new Gates computer. And there's no such thing as really deleting a program.

[FoxtrotAlpha]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

thats a pretty good answer. but it does not disarm my skepticism because most products, cameras, phones, laptops, have removable batteries. doesnt seem to be a big problem for the electronics industry in general.

i think your reply & other one does answer the question - apple is a control freak. But i still think some beancounter inside apple determined that X more profit can be made by making their batteries permanent.

Oh, of course, there will definitely be other reasons, primarily things to do with the actual design.

Having a removable battery would mean you need to include some mechanism/structure in the design to allow such removal. This would make the device heavier, probably bulkier and so on.

By making it integrated, their design remains 'seamless' and as compact as possible, that will be the main reason.

[Markul]

The reason imo is that they sell more devices. Should be fairly logical.

[Probono]

I use Apple and have for years. The battery on my iPhone 3GS works after more than 3 years, the battery on my two years old Macbook pro keeps on ticking for many hours.
In the days of replaceable batteries I had problems and they needed t be replaced, now none. Perhaps better technology, certainly better design and execution. What ever the reason I am a happy consumer who needs 100% uptime and gets it.