The Latest Lie: Obama Cut Medicare

[GrantMercury]

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/...-medicare:boid

The Usual Solution: Lie

Mitt Romney has a tried-and-true solution to the problem of the public getting upset at something he is proposing -- tell the public the other guy is the one proposing it! Talk about "muddying the waters."

Lies are all this prick can run on.

[Rochard]

I think at this point I would be voting for Obama just because of the spin coming out of the Romney camp.

Someone posted an article to my Facebook page comparing Obama to Carter saying they both "killed millions of jobs". Obama didn't kill jobs; He walked into the White House during the worst recession in sixty years.

I think the Republicans put up McCain and Palin knowing they were going to loose no matter what, thinking the next four years would make Obama look bad. While I don't think he's done great, we see improvement - and that makes the Republicans look bad. For me it's "three strikes your out" - They had Bush that caused this, McCain who was worthless, and now Romney who makes stuff up.

It's fucking comical.

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I think at this point I would be voting for Obama just because of the spin coming out of the Romney camp.

Someone posted an article to my Facebook page comparing Obama to Carter saying they both "killed millions of jobs". Obama didn't kill jobs; He walked into the White House during the worst recession in sixty years.

I think the Republicans put up McCain and Palin knowing they were going to loose no matter what, thinking the next four years would make Obama look bad. While I don't think he's done great, we see improvement - and that makes the Republicans look bad. For me it's "three strikes your out" - They had Bush that caused this, McCain who was worthless, and now Romney who makes stuff up.

It's fucking comical.

I agree with just about everything you say - but I think Obama has actually done a very good job - considering that the GOP has done every fucking thing they could to stall the recovery.

He'll win in November. Even the Repugs hate Mittens.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

I agree with just about everything you say - but I think Obama has actually done a very good job - considering that the GOP has done every fucking thing they could to stall the recovery.

He'll win in November. Even the Repugs hate Mittens.

Plus Obama has fulfilled many of the campaign promises that got him elected. The Republicans will focus on the few things he hasn't gotten done yet or point to the things where he couldn't carry it as far as he would have preferred. They want you to think the sitting President is a dictator and is not at the liberty of Congress for many things he wants to do.

[sandman!]

[Ronzo]

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

I agree with just about everything you say - but I think Obama has actually done a very good job - considering that the GOP has done every fucking thing they could to stall the recovery.

He'll win in November. Even the Repugs hate Mittens.

You're way off base in your opinions which seem to be based on the 15 and 30 second sound bites garnered from the mainstream left-leaning media. Do a little fact checking. Romney will win in a landslide both in terms of the popular vote and the electoral college.

[epitome]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

You're way off base in your opinions which seem to be based on the 15 and 30 second sound bites garnered from the mainstream left-leaning media. Do a little fact checking. Romney will win in a landslide both in terms of the popular vote and the electoral college.

Any smart person would get polling data directly from the companies that do the polling. The companies candidates rely on themselves.

Guess what? Polls do not backup your claim.

My guess is you're spending too much time listening to 15 and 30 second soundbites from right-leaning media.

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

You're way off base in your opinions which seem to be based on the 15 and 30 second sound bites garnered from the mainstream left-leaning media. Do a little fact checking. Romney will win in a landslide both in terms of the popular vote and the electoral college.

Left-leaning media?

The media is corporate. And I DO check my facts. Turn off Limbaugh. He's not doing you any favors.

[2MuchMark]

[2MuchMark]

There is no way Mittens is going to win the election. I am really looking forward to watching him shit himself (like his poor dog) when he debates President Obama though. He is so fucked.

[2MuchMark]

[tony286]

The gift W had was he was very likable. If you watch the hbo doc of his first run for president before he added Darth Vader to the ticket. Extremely likable like they used to say a guy you would want to have a beer with. Mitt is standoffish and unlikable. Also he cry's when Obama says something about him. But they attack Obama constantly. Also he asked for his business experience to be hands off and thats what he is running on. And the Olympics he got fed funds thats how he saved it. lol

[Evil1]

Can't stand mitt but obama has the same appeal as a rapist.

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by **********

There is no way Mittens is going to win the election. I am really looking forward to watching him shit himself (like his poor dog) when he debates President Obama though. He is so fucked.

Most def. Can't wait.

[CyberHustler]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

You're way off base in your opinions which seem to be based on the 15 and 30 second sound bites garnered from the mainstream left-leaning media. Do a little fact checking. Romney will win in a landslide both in terms of the popular vote and the electoral college.

Originally Posted by Evil1

Can't stand mitt but obama has the same appeal as a rapist.

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by tony286

The gift W had was he was very likable. If you watch the hbo doc of his first run for president before he added Darth Vader to the ticket. Extremely likable like they used to say a guy you would want to have a beer with. Mitt is standoffish and unlikable. Also he cry's when Obama says something about him. But they attack Obama constantly. Also he asked for his business experience to be hands off and thats what he is running on. And the Olympics he got fed funds thats how he saved it. lol

Likability is very subjective, of course. Every time I saw W, I wanted to punch him in the face. But your point is very well taken - Mitt really is a standoffish prick.

Obama really does seem like a likable guy. Probably because unlike Mittens (And W), he wasn't born a millionaire.

Studies have been done on rich people. Those born into wealth sometimes don't develop the skills necessary to get along well with others and to relate to the feelings of others - because they never HAD to. Most of us NEED to get along with others to get our basic needs met. We've had to develop sensitivities. We have to go on job interviews and know how to interact without offending the interviewer. People who have known nothing but wealth and privilege have always had their way no matter what. That's why they are so often douchebags. There are exceptions, of course.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

I agree with just about everything you say - but I think Obama has actually done a very good job - considering that the GOP has done every fucking thing they could to stall the recovery.

He'll win in November. Even the Repugs hate Mittens.

I think he's done "as well as can be expected". I have to admit it's a difficult time to be president.

We really do need strict term limits. Congress should be composed of real people, not lifelong politicians.

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by Evil1

Can't stand mitt but obama has the same appeal as a rapist.

What? Why?

[GrantMercury]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I think he's done "as well as can be expected". I have to admit it's a difficult time to be president.

We really do need strict term limits. Congress should be composed of real people, not lifelong politicians.

Yes, it seems like the longer they hang around the more suseptible they are to corruption.

A few have been around a while and seem to still vote on our side - but I agree. Term limits are a good idea. Here's the problem though - who will be there in DC to greet the idealistic new lawmakers? The same old fucking lobbyists. "Hey kid! come ere'! I'll show ya around the town."

As always, fucking lobbyists and the special interest money is the root of all DC evil.

[Robbie]

Reading these posts is crazy.

All of you have your minds made up and create whatever fantasy land fits your choice.

The ones who hate Obama would hate him no matter what he did. He could adopt the entire Republican platform and they would still hate him.

The ones who hate Romney will hate him not matter what. He could likewise adopt the entire Democratic platform and they would still hate him.

It would be nice if we could stop treating politics like the parties are your favorite sports team.
I personally vote for what I think is right. I voted for Clinton in 1992. I voted Bush in 2000. I voted Obama 2008.

Haven't made up my mind yet about 2012. I think we would probably be best with a Republican led Senate and House and Obama as president. Or the other way around Dems control congress, Romney as president.

That seems to be what works from what I've seen in my lifetime.

But as far as being a "Dem" or "Repub"....fuck that. This ain't fantasy football. I take each man on his own merit and try to weigh the effects of what he will do.

And despite all the apologists and people trying to make excuses...Obama hasn't done much. Especially the first two years when he seemed to be missing in action while Reid and Pelosi ran the show.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I think he's done "as well as can be expected". I have to admit it's a difficult time to be president.

We really do need strict term limits. Congress should be composed of real people, not lifelong politicians.

I agree 100% on the term limits. And on Obama doing as well as could be expected. He walked into the job with no executive experience at all. He was a junior Sen. who had barely even started. He seems to have gotten the hang of it in the last year. I guess we'll see if that's enough to squeak him by.

[Tom_PM]

Some people MAY remember that Obama pledged to cut "waste, fraud and abuse" out of the medicare system. Ring a bell? Anyway, the example given and which was featured on I believe the PBS show Frontline went like this.

A guy takes out a PO box and rents a physical location in a dead strip mall. He claims he's in the artificial limbs business. He sends hundreds of phony claims to medicare, who (as was the policy at the time) paid out those claims in advance of making any follow up visit to the physical location. The guy gets a bunch of checks, closes up the PO box, ducks out of his lease and moves on to start up a nother phony front in another town.

Thats one example of the "waste, fraud and abuse" that Obama has "cut" from medicare. You can look this stuff up yourself if you want.

Is it a "cut" when you stop sending checks to phony places who fraudulently submit the claims? Yes.
Is it a good cut that everyone would agree with once they know the facts? Yes.
Will it be used anyway to claim Obama cut your medicare? You bet your ass.

Grains of salt were invented for taking along with political claims.

[MediaGuy]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I think at this point I would be voting for Obama just because of the spin coming out of the Romney camp.

Someone posted an article to my Facebook page comparing Obama to Carter saying they both "killed millions of jobs". Obama didn't kill jobs; He walked into the White House during the worst recession in sixty years.

I think the Republicans put up McCain and Palin knowing they were going to loose no matter what, thinking the next four years would make Obama look bad. While I don't think he's done great, we see improvement - and that makes the Republicans look bad. For me it's "three strikes your out" - They had Bush that caused this, McCain who was worthless, and now Romney who makes stuff up.

It's fucking comical.

I don't think who's in office directs foreign policy and many other sectors of government.

I mean, Obama came in with Gates and the whole neo-con gang in tow.... but despite this and his whole Wall Street gang of traitors, he got a lot done and signed...

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Reading these posts is crazy.

All of you have your minds made up and create whatever fantasy land fits your choice.

The ones who hate Obama would hate him no matter what he did. He could adopt the entire Republican platform and they would still hate him.

The ones who hate Romney will hate him not matter what. He could likewise adopt the entire Democratic platform and they would still hate him.

It would be nice if we could stop treating politics like the parties are your favorite sports team.
I personally vote for what I think is right. I voted for Clinton in 1992. I voted Bush in 2000. I voted Obama 2008.

Haven't made up my mind yet about 2012. I think we would probably be best with a Republican led Senate and House and Obama as president. Or the other way around Dems control congress, Romney as president.

That seems to be what works from what I've seen in my lifetime.

But as far as being a "Dem" or "Repub"....fuck that. This ain't fantasy football. I take each man on his own merit and try to weigh the effects of what he will do.

And despite all the apologists and people trying to make excuses...Obama hasn't done much. Especially the first two years when he seemed to be missing in action while Reid and Pelosi ran the show.

He wasnt missing, if you read more than fox news talking points. Im not a big fan of his, he isnt a progressive at all but the man has done alot considering he had huge road blocks and people that decided on day one to be against everything he was for even if they were for it before.And you should be worried because the next president will be picking more supreme court judges which could effect our livelihood. That could make you wish for a 4 percent tax increase lol.

[DTK]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

You're way off base in your opinions which seem to be based on the 15 and 30 second sound bites garnered from the mainstream left-leaning media. Do a little fact checking. Romney will win in a landslide both in terms of the popular vote and the electoral college.

Ok, here's a little fact checking for you:

http://www.270towin.com/index.php
http://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/...llege_map.html
http://www.electoral-vote.com/

btw I @ mainstream left-leaning media

[DTK]

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/...-medicare:boid

The Usual Solution: Lie

Mitt Romney has a tried-and-true solution to the problem of the public getting upset at something he is proposing -- tell the public the other guy is the one proposing it! Talk about "muddying the waters."

Lies are all this prick can run on.

the link you posted didn't work. this one does.

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/...a-cut-medicare

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by tony286

He wasnt missing, if you read more than fox news talking points. Im not a big fan of his, he isnt a progressive at all but the man has done alot considering he had huge road blocks and people that decided on day one to be against everything he was for even if they were for it before.And you should be worried because the next president will be picking more supreme court judges which could effect our livelihood. That could make you wish for a 4 percent tax increase lol.

What does Fox news have to do with anything. Why do people who are just blindly Democrats always scream Fox News and people who are blindly Republican scream the "liberal media".

I'm not like you Tony. I don't follow and believe all in one party or another. I choose based on the man. Obama is a big disappointment not only to me, but to a LOT of folks who voted for him.

Having firm believers like yourself say otherwise doesn't change what I saw with my own two eyes.
I know exactly what I voted for him for. And he never did what he said:
1. Close Gitmo
2. Stop with the fearmongering and give us back some of our freedom
3. TALK to our enemies and not just our allies
4. The economy of course.

I'm not sure he deserves my vote again. Obviously you think he did a great job. I don't.

As for the Supreme Court judge picking...I've heard that since the Reagan years. It hasn't happened yet. And matter of fact...Bush's main pick just made Obama-Care constitutional.
The Supreme Court is not a reason to vote for a man for president.

[Connor]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

You're way off base in your opinions which seem to be based on the 15 and 30 second sound bites garnered from the mainstream left-leaning media. Do a little fact checking. Romney will win in a landslide both in terms of the popular vote and the electoral college.

I have a feeling your definition of "mainstream left-leaning media" is anyone who doesn't say what you want them to say about this topic but, this guy's non-partisan credentials are impeccable:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

Note the stats in the right column.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Connor

I have a feeling your definition of "mainstream left-leaning media" is anyone who doesn't say what you want them to say about this topic but, this guy's non-partisan credentials are impeccable:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

Note the stats in the right column.

The New York Times is widely considered to have a "liberal" slant. Just sayin'

[Connor]

Originally Posted by Robbie

The ones who hate Romney will hate him not matter what. He could likewise adopt the entire Democratic platform and they would still hate him.

It would be nice if we could stop treating politics like the parties are your favorite sports team.
I personally vote for what I think is right. I voted for Clinton in 1992. I voted Bush in 2000. I voted Obama 2008.

A couple responses:

1) Mitt HAS adopted the entire Democratic platform... at one time or another. No position he hasn't taken at ONE point in his career. HA! Sorry, couldn't resist.

2) Sorry but, voting for Clinton then Bush then Obama makes NO sense. When we choose a president, we choose not just a person but a platform, an approach to governing. Unless you're talking Wall Street imperialism, where they're all the same, on the domestic social front Clinton/Obama are VERY different than Bush. So, it's like one year you vote that pizza is the best food ever, then the next year you vote to outlaw pizza. That makes no sense to me.

[Connor]

Originally Posted by Robbie

The New York Times is widely considered to have a "liberal" slant. Just sayin'

Yeah by extreme politicians and their rabid followers who find facts are sometimes inconvenient to their political rants. ;)

[Connor]

Originally Posted by Robbie

As for the Supreme Court judge picking...I've heard that since the Reagan years. It hasn't happened yet. And matter of fact...Bush's main pick just made Obama-Care constitutional.
The Supreme Court is not a reason to vote for a man for president.

Pointing to Obamacare ruling as a sign the SCOTUS is OK is like claiming global warming is a hoax because it's cold outside one day.

The SC isn't totally gone yet... but, it's one ideologue away from being gone. And its present state is pretty bad too. Citizens United is just the most visible example.

[Connor]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Having firm believers like yourself say otherwise doesn't change what I saw with my own two eyes.
I know exactly what I voted for him for. And he never did what he said:
1. Close Gitmo
2. Stop with the fearmongering and give us back some of our freedom
3. TALK to our enemies and not just our allies
4. The economy of course.

BTW since I was disagreeing with you elsewhere, I should say that I agree with the above, except for #4. I think #4 falls with Congress, Obama can't write legislation and pass it. The first three though are more in his area... he never did close Gitmo for whatever reason, after trying to at first. He backed the Patriot Act extension, and even was fine with indefinite detention of citizens accused of terrorist ties.... and that's NOT cool. And, we haven't done much talking to Iran that I can see, or NK.

But what are you going to do, "punish" Obama by supporting the side that never would have talked about doing those things in the FIRST place because they thought they were all bad ideas?

In this way, the Tea Party has the right approach. You don't punish your side in a general election... if they disappoint, the thing to do is get their asses in the primary.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Connor

2) Sorry but, voting for Clinton then Bush then Obama makes NO sense. When we choose a president, we choose not just a person but a platform, an approach to governing. Unless you're talking Wall Street imperialism, where they're all the same, on the domestic social front Clinton/Obama are VERY different than Bush. So, it's like one year you vote that pizza is the best food ever, then the next year you vote to outlaw pizza. That makes no sense to me.

It makes perfect sense.

I felt that Clinton was the better choice to govern over Bush1 and then Bob Dole.
I felt that Bush II was the better choice over Al Gore and then John Kerry.
I felt that Obama was the better choice over McCain.

The party platforms don't mean much of anything to any presidency. Each man does his own thing once in office.
The Democratic party platform nor the Republican party platform have ever been actually implemented by any president.

But you just go ahead and keep on voting for your favorite "team". Let me know when the party platform actually becomes law.
Personally, I would have liked to see Ron Paul as president. At least he espoused some things that I believe too (cutting the military and bringing them home and more personal freedom)

[Connor]

Originally Posted by Robbie

The party platforms don't mean much of anything to any presidency. Each man does his own thing once in office.
The Democratic party platform nor the Republican party platform have ever been actually implemented by any president.

Oh of course it has... the approach in the Affordable Health Care Act (aka Obamacare) is the Democratic platform on health care, it's what Obama ran on mostly with only minor differences -- i.e. no public option ended up in the final bill, and Democrats historically were not for the individual mandate. Just one example.

The EPA under Obama is VERY different, it's actually REGULATING companies. Democrats typically stock regulating agencies with actual regulators because they believe in government oversight and regulation. Republicans don't... which is why you had the head of the Arabian Horse organization leading FEMA when Katrina struck New Orleans. This has everything to do with party philosophy.

For Bush, his people had been lobbying Clinton to invade Iraq for YEARS before they took over. Then they take over and first opportunity they get... invade Iraq. Again, hawkishness and using America's military might to gain economic advantage is a Republican party philosophy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project...erican_Century

Look past presidential races to governors. Part of the Republican platform is to attack and weaken organized labor. Look what happened in WI, what they tried to do in Ohio.

Yes, it matters... it's NOT about individual personalities. It's not a high school popularity contest. It's about an approach and philosophy to governing, and EACH SIDE has a TEAM that comes with them.

[Robbie]

Connor, I don't firmly believe in EITHER sides ideas.

I think the unions have grown too big and are hurting our country more than helping. (anti-democrat)

I also think we don't need to have the biggest military in the world to defend our country and we should cut spending to the bone on that. (anti-republican)

I think we spend too much and pay too much in taxes as well (anti-democrat)

I think people governing by religious beliefs is a fucking joke (anti-republican)

I could keep on going. But you get the picture. I'm my own man. I guess I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal...probaby a libertarian if I were to analyze it more closely.

I'm just kind of amazed at all the people who seem so vehemently attached to one "side" or another. You would think that just watching what really happens would be enough to show everyone that there really isn't a whole lot of difference in ANY of these politicians.

They all say whatever it takes to get elected. And then they ALL do whatever benefits them the most once they get in power.

[DudeRick]

You Democrats sure do like to revise history... It was widly publicized during the debate in congress over Obama care!

Obama In November 2009: Right, One-Third Of ObamaCare Funding Comes From Cuts To Medicare



TAPPER: ?One of the concerns about health care and how you pay for it ? one third of the funding comes from cuts to Medicare.?

BARACK OBAMA: ?Right.?

TAPPER: ?A lot of times, as you know, what happens in Congress is somebody will do something bold and then Congress, close to election season, will undo it.?

OBAMA: ?Right.?

TAPPER: ?You saw that with the ?doc fix?.?

OBAMA: ?Right.?

TAPPER: ?Are you willing to pledge that whatever cuts in Medicare are being made to fund health insurance, one third of it, that you will veto anything that tries to undo that??

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Ronzo

You're way off base in your opinions which seem to be based on the 15 and 30 second sound bites garnered from the mainstream left-leaning media. Do a little fact checking. Romney will win in a landslide both in terms of the popular vote and the electoral college.

Actually most polls show Romney losing 62% to 38% of the electoral votes.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...llege_map.html

Click "no toss ups map"

[DudeRick]

Just some history for you Democrats...

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbd...attling-o_news

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Actually most polls show Romney losing 62% to 38% of the electoral votes.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...llege_map.html

Click "no toss ups map"

Todays rasmussen poll:
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 45% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns the vote from 44%. Four percent (4%) prefer some other candidate, and seven percent (7%) are undecided.

http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public..._tracking_poll

And of course their is the old faithful:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/election.aspx

The numbers you posted are not even close what most polls are showing. This race is almost neck and neck.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Todays rasmussen poll:
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows Mitt Romney attracting support from 45% of voters nationwide, while President Obama earns the vote from 44%. Four percent (4%) prefer some other candidate, and seven percent (7%) are undecided.

http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public..._tracking_poll

And of course their is the old faithful:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/election.aspx

The numbers you posted are not even close what most polls are showing. This race is almost neck and neck.

Robbie, you are falling for the illusion. I said, ELECTORAL VOTES. That is all that matters. The polls you show are POPULAR VOTE. They do not matter.

Obama has 332 to Romney's 206

[DTK]

Originally Posted by Connor

Pointing to Obamacare ruling as a sign the SCOTUS is OK is like claiming global warming is a hoax because it's cold outside one day.

The SC isn't totally gone yet... but, it's one ideologue away from being gone. And its present state is pretty bad too. Citizens United is just the most visible example.

Citizens United changed our form of government. No exaggeration.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

Robbie, you are falling for the illusion. I said, ELECTORAL VOTES. That is all that matters. The polls you show are POPULAR VOTE. They do not matter.

Obama has 332 to Romney's 206

My bad. I thought you were talking about a poll not electoral predictions.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Robbie

My bad. I thought you were talking about a poll not electoral predictions.

No prob

[DTK]

The best part of this particular lie is that Ryan's budget plan REALLY DOES cut $700+ Billion from Medicare!

Utterly shameless

[Connor]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I could keep on going. But you get the picture. I'm my own man. I guess I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal...probaby a libertarian if I were to analyze it more closely.

Well aside from the fact that Democrats as the "tax and spend" party is a myth ( a. Bush did just fine spending like a drunk 16 year old with daddy's credit card b. in fact every republican president in your lifetime or mine ran up the deficit by huge amounts c. only CLINTON balanced the budget and left a surplus and d. Obama hasn't raised your taxes) I get your basic point.

But of that list, surely some things are more important to you than others on that list?

For me, being in this industry, not letting religious people tell me how to live my own life is a really important factor to me. Having government keep an eye on power/electric companies and health care insurance companies etc is EXTREMELY important to me, because corporate America just fucks us again and again and again when they're not kept in check. People being able to get medical care and not left to die because they're broke or have a "pre-existing condition" is EXTREMELY important to me.

I am pro second amendment... I feel we should always have the right to own guns.

So while I'm a mix too, there are certain issues that just are more important to me than the others and no matter how much I liked a guy, I couldn't vote AGAINST these core concerns. So because I'm pro second amendment, does that mean I could ever vote for a party who lets religious zealots try to shut down my business and tell me what to do in bed? Never. I couldn't say "fuck you you're on your own" to gay people because I'm not gay and want to own an AK-47. I couldn't support a party that will actively try to let huge corporations treat me like an indentured servant. Not a fucking chance.

Picking a side doesn't mean you're not your "own man" or that you walk lock step with everything on the agenda of that party ... it just means some issues are more important than others.

[Connor]

Originally Posted by DTK

Citizens United changed our form of government. No exaggeration.

Agreed, I don't feel at all like I live in a democracy anymore.

[DTK]

Originally Posted by Connor

Agreed, I don't feel at all like I live in a democracy anymore.

That's because it's officially a plutocracy now.

[Connor]

Originally Posted by DTK

That's because it's officially a plutocracy now.

Your use of the word "official" is important there cause it's kind of been an unofficial one for a while now, but now it's just in your face obvious ... they don't even try to hide it. They used to have the decency to skulk in the shadows in shame. lol

Isn't it odd that it's getting WORSE with the rise of the Internet instead of better? One of life's little mysteries.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Connor, I don't firmly believe in EITHER sides ideas.

I think the unions have grown too big and are hurting our country more than helping. (anti-democrat)

I also think we don't need to have the biggest military in the world to defend our country and we should cut spending to the bone on that. (anti-republican)

I think we spend too much and pay too much in taxes as well (anti-democrat)

I think people governing by religious beliefs is a fucking joke (anti-republican)

I could keep on going. But you get the picture. I'm my own man. I guess I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal...probaby a libertarian if I were to analyze it more closely.

I'm just kind of amazed at all the people who seem so vehemently attached to one "side" or another. You would think that just watching what really happens would be enough to show everyone that there really isn't a whole lot of difference in ANY of these politicians.

They all say whatever it takes to get elected. And then they ALL do whatever benefits them the most once they get in power.

Unions are now less than 7 percent of the work force. Back in the good days when one person could work and raise a family. In the 50 and 60's unions were almost one third of the work force. For such a free thinker you seem very based in right wing talking points nothing wrong with that. Some of my closest friends are righties and my dad may he rest in peace was a card carrying member of rnc and I miss him everyday. Also for one side Tony I voted for Deal for Gov and oxendine for insurance commissioner everytime he ran.