Is it best to hire a company or individual for programming?

[lakerslive]

damn. these programemrs are pissing me off.. always leaving half ass jobs.. whats the deal? im paying them what they want..and still can't do it right for something as page numbering display on my site.

[Sid70]

Pay a project manager to have it done properly.

[Supz]

most programmers cant even do what you ask for them. they can do some, and figure they will learn the rest along the way, but dont. Then the others ones dont know anything about time management, or use any time management tools. This is also adult. So as far as webmastering are not behind the curve, but as far as business technologies most are still in the stone age.

[waltgator]

Originally Posted by Supz

most programmers cant even do what you ask for them. they can do some, and figure they will learn the rest along the way, but dont. Then the others ones dont know anything about time management, or use any time management tools. This is also adult. So as far as webmastering are not behind the curve, but as far as business technologies most are still in the stone age.

i wouldnt say most programmers, because there are some decent ones out there..
i just fired my guy, after 2 yrs of not getting what i wanted, and just excuse after excuse..
my lesson learned: if it aint done within a deadline, hire another guy...

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by Supz

most programmers cant even do what you ask for them. they can do some, and figure they will learn the rest along the way, but dont. Then the others ones dont know anything about time management, or use any time management tools. This is also adult. So as far as webmastering are not behind the curve, but as far as business technologies most are still in the stone age.

most people looking for programmers have no idea about the work to be done and most of them are not capable of putting the minimum requirements on paper.

[Harmon]

Find somebody local. Stay away from Indians, overseas scumbags, etc (Have no idea where you are). Use somebody that has some sort of reliability. It may take a bit longer, but worth it in the long run.

[waltgator]

Originally Posted by Harmon

Find somebody local. Stay away from Indians, overseas scumbags, etc (Have no idea where you are). Use somebody that has some sort of reliability. It may take a bit longer, but worth it in the long run.

true dat!

[Google Expert]

Find someone with lots of good feedback.

If he can't give references and show work samples - avoid.

[My Fucking Traffic]

Be totally clear on what you want done, give realistic deadlines, don't be cheap and you'll find a good programmer.

There's tons of us out there, but a lot of us don't like to work with the people who aren't like the above.

Deadlines are a big thing, most people hiring want you to rebuild facebook in two weeks, why? Because that's what some flip on freelance.com said he'd do it in for $150.

If that's what you're expecting good luck because your shit's all fucked up and you talk like a retard.

Source: Programmer for 10 years.

[k0nr4d]

Originally Posted by venusgal

Be totally clear on what you want done, give realistic deadlines, don't be cheap and you'll find a good programmer.

There's tons of us out there, but a lot of us don't like to work with the people who aren't like the above.

Deadlines are a big thing, most people hiring want you to rebuild facebook in two weeks, why? Because that's what some flip on freelance.com said he'd do it in for $150.

If that's what you're expecting good luck because your shit's all fucked up and you talk like a retard.

Source: Programmer for 10 years.

Well said. Half the problem is the client... If they don't know *EXACTLY* what they want and they aren't realistic, then it's already a problem.... Facebook probably spent a quarter million developing thier IM system - don't expect some indian to deliver the same quality for $150.

[Supz]

Originally Posted by grumpy

most people looking for programmers have no idea about the work to be done and most of them are not capable of putting the minimum requirements on paper.

That is true also. This is the good part about a company. A lot of times people dont know what they want, and programmers dont know how to extract the information from the customer. Which is what a project manager is meant to do. But saying most probably wasnt a good word. But those are my issues working with Freelances vs Company. Ofcourse you pay more. But atleast there is someone to be held accountable.

[My Fucking Traffic]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

Well said. Half the problem is the client... If they don't know *EXACTLY* what they want and they aren't realistic, then it's already a problem.... Facebook probably spent a quarter million developing thier IM system - don't expect some indian to deliver the same quality for $150.

Bingo, and I'm not hating on an Indian at all, I know a few who are great programmers and do awesome jobs, but they sadly are the cheapest and low entry programmers who a lot of people base their pricing on.

Fast, Reliable and Cheap. Pick two. Just like hosting service, it's pretty spot on for programmers too.

If you want fast and reliable, it's not gonna be cheap. You want fast and cheap, they're not gonna be reliable. You want reliable and cheap, they're not gonna be fast... You pick up what I'm putting down.

[Zyzz]

Originally Posted by k0nr4d

If they don't know *EXACTLY* what they want and they aren't realistic, then it's already a problem....

Quoted the truth

[Webmaster Advertising]

Nothing to add other than what has already been said, especially about the pick-a-pair services...

That being said, we offer programming services, feel free to shoot us an email if you would like us to take a look at your project and send you a quote for it.

I'm not going to say we're one of the cheapest companies to get custom programming from, that would be a lie but, I will say we do exactly what you ask of us at the price we outline and so far, have not had a single unhappy client.

We're even working on some stuff for the Dept. of Corrections right now.

[jwerd]

Originally Posted by venusgal

Be totally clear on what you want done, give realistic deadlines, don't be cheap and you'll find a good programmer.

There's tons of us out there, but a lot of us don't like to work with the people who aren't like the above.

Deadlines are a big thing, most people hiring want you to rebuild facebook in two weeks, why? Because that's what some flip on freelance.com said he'd do it in for $150.

If that's what you're expecting good luck because your shit's all fucked up and you talk like a retard.

Source: Programmer for 10 years.

Bingo

And an addendum to that: Hire guys that know about frameworks within their language of choice if the project is new. Organization is going help you immensely down the road when you are hiring new staff to take over things.

[Phoenix]

i have a programming office in china...they are very reliable.
however, wont touch adult with a ten foot pole.

good luck

[fris]

Originally Posted by lakerslive

damn. these programemrs are pissing me off.. always leaving half ass jobs.. whats the deal? im paying them what they want..and still can't do it right for something as page numbering display on my site.

agencies will generally charge more.

[Lykos]

Hire a company is way way better...
No delays, or at least they pay for it

Would never hire a freelancer... only company or in house.

[privatesociety]

a company, we work with a great one, hit us up if you want details

[TheSquealer]

The single common thread in everyone's complaints is that its all someone else's fault. That says all anyone needs to know about those making arguments on either side. Until you blame yourself and fix the "problem", you'll keep running into the same problems. It's that simple.

[Due]

Originally Posted by grumpy

most people looking for programmers have no idea about the work to be done and most of them are not capable of putting the minimum requirements on paper.

That is true, I do believe it is a shared obligation for the programmer and their customer to properly spec out the system before starting development or accepting the job. If working on a per hour basis doing the actual specs may be part of the job.

This is probably also the reason why system design and analysis plays a major role into system development / programming education. In other words any programmer who accept a job to do a certain task should know their own limitations and anyone who is hire-ring people to do a certain job should know what their goal is.

Projects fail either because the programmer is not diligent about what they need to create or the person who hire them may change their mind multiple times on the way. Be open about what you know and what you don't know.

I'd recommend anyone to have a project manager on the job if they are not experienced with working with programmers, if its not an option then pay someone to write a fact / spec sheet. Speaking programming english is different than speaking english english

Many times it can be done for less than $500 based on the size of the projects, it could be beneficial to have this written in India or the Philippines due to the amount of details they would typically spec out for you. Keep in mind that taking the cheapest option will usually cost you the most. If you shortcut developers they will shortcut you

This is based on my own experience I've gathered over the years from both small and larger projects.

[HomerSimpson]

All my clients know that:
http://www.awmzone.com/services
http://www.geektnt.com
http://www.gfy.com/business-services/956317-site-server-migrations-site-server-optimizations-php-coding-consulting.html

[2012]

should have strawberry or blueberry syrup on my pancakes ?

[Varius]

Many business owners, have little to no technical knowledge.

Many programmers, have little to no business experience/understanding (especially if working for a project that may not particularly interest them).

Successful companies, usually have people who are the exception to this rule under both cases (or someone to bridge the gap).

Otherwise, well you end up with 100,000 threads moaning about "programmers don't deliver what i want" vs. "clients don't know what they want!"

Some programmers are happy to just do EXACTLY as told; which is a problem. "You didn't tell me the site has to scale and support a million visitors a day, so I didn't bother indexing my DB fields".

Other programmers, go to the other extreme and are perfectionists, not understanding that time=money (not just in their compensation, but in the "get-to-market" sooner = money). For example, in some companies, launching a new feature that will have a 25% impact two weeks sooner, by taking acceptable short-cuts (risk of minor bugs) could equal 6 or 7 figures extra revenue.

As for the clients, it all starts with them often not understanding their own technical needs. The programmer, before typing a word, should communicate and get everything laid-out and agreed upon. Obviously, not for free, as that can be a time-consuming process. He should also be pro-active and make suggestions the client may not think of.

Lack of communication and lack of experience in the other's field IMO, are the cause of most complaints. Followed simply by people with no work ethic, heh.

[livexxx]

I always start with a BRD, helps get things sorted as to what the system is going to be doing. Put some mocks in with balsamiq if it has a UI of any sorts. Then depending on scope crack out a FSD. DAILY reviews with the programming team for 10 minutes, I cant stress how important that is. Some proggies seem to get pissed if you ask them every day what they did yesterday and what they are going to do today. They are the ones you sideline. That 10 mins works both ways, they get to know what the objectives and priorities are, you get to know what they are working on and their thought process. Even better sign up an account on atlassian using JIRA and detail and track every component of the work. Aim for something like a scrum process where there is continuous visibility. The number of times I have heard stories with remote workers that they can't be gotten hold of, shocking.

[Milan_Quantox]

As i told you in previous thread. I would always go with company and i highly recommend www.MediaInLimited.com!