Five Job-Destroying CEOs Trying to ?Fix? the Debt by Slashing Corporate Taxes - GoFuckYourself.com

GrantMercury · 12-09-2012, 07:38 PM

Five Job-Destroying CEOs Trying to ?Fix? the Debt by Slashing Corporate Taxes and Cutting Social Security Benefits

In poll after poll, the American people say they are far more concerned about the jobs crisis than the ?debt crisis.? A powerful coalition of CEOs says they have an answer for both problems.

Give us more tax breaks, they say, and we?ll use the money to invest and create jobs. The national economic pie will expand and Uncle Sam will get plenty of the frothy meringue without having to raise tax rates.

That?s the line of the Fix the Debt campaign. Led by more than 90 CEOs, this turbo-charged PR/lobbying machine is blasting the message that such ?pro-growth tax reform? should be a pillar of any deficit deal (along with cuts to benefit programs like Social Security and Medicare).

And it might be a good line ? if not for some pesky real-world facts.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/five...cutting-social

Evil1 · 12-09-2012, 08:33 PM

yes, crank up the taxes, the government deserves it for being so wonderful to the people. Think of how many more hundreds of millions we can give pakistan or egypt and all the good that they will do here with it.. definitely feed the govt even more money. Wouldn't want michelle obama to be forced into skipping a vacation.

idiot.

bronco67 · 12-09-2012, 10:50 PM

I know that John Boner is a royal, gaping asshole -- but if you read up on Mitch McConell you'll find that he's one of the dirtiest campaigners ever -- and he appears to be a pretty vile human being.

k0nr4d · 12-09-2012, 11:33 PM

That seems like a pretty reasonable solution to me. Even on the small business scale - if taxes and the cost to employ people were lower, i'd be more likely to hire additional staff.

Robbie · 12-09-2012, 11:39 PM

I can't understand why anybody would want to let the govt. TAKE more of people's money. Especially when they spend over 10 billion dollars per day. And kill people all over the world with a giant military that most of that money goes to.

People like Grant Mercury are "neo-liberals" A real liberal would never trust or want to give the crooks in Washington D.C. a single penny more than is needed to administrate our country.

epitome · 12-09-2012, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I can't understand why anybody would want to let the govt. TAKE more of people's money. Especially when they spend over 10 billion dollars per day. And kill people all over the world with a giant military that most of that money goes to.

People like Grant Mercury are "neo-liberals" A real liberal would never trust or want to give the crooks in Washington D.C. a single penny more than is needed to administrate our country.

Did you read it? Verizon paid negative 3.3% in federal taxes (meaning they were a burden on you and I) and still slashed 30k jobs.

So that let us pay less in taxes and we will hire more line is BS.

Giant corps pay nowhere near 35%. Many don't even pay 10%.

Guess who makes up the difference? Individual taxpayers. That's why I always think it's funny what side of the argument some people are on.

Robbie, I bet you pay close to the % of taxes you are supposed to be and should be furious at those who don't.

Robbie · 12-10-2012, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

Did you read it? Verizon paid negative 3.3% in federal taxes (meaning they were a burden on you and I)

Robbie, I bet you pay close to the % of taxes you are supposed to be and should be furious at those who don't.

Verizon isn't the burden...the Federal Govt. spending 10 BILLION dollars per day is the burden.

And fuck no...I don't want ANYBODY to pay taxes that they don't have to.
Verizon may have had to cut 30,000 jobs...but they still employ tens of thousands more people who are all part of the tax base thanks to their employment at Verizon.

I don't want the corporation of Verizon to pay ANY taxes. I want them to thrive and be successful and sell so many goddamn phones that they need more employees to do the work.

FUCK the govt. and FUCK feeding that beast. We need to be starving it.

If the govt. would actually help people I wouldn't mind my money going towards that. But instead it's all about the military.

You want to take money from a phone company and give it to the Federal govt. to build missiles, invade other countries, and kill people worldwide.

Let me know the next time Verizon sends a drone out and kills innocent civilians as part of "collateral damage" on the "war on terror"
Or the next time they wiretap U.S. citizens. Or the next time they raid a pot dispensary. Or the next time they start another war....

You see what I'm saying? YOU should be furious that the U.S. govt. does this bullshit worldwide and you should be applauding Verizon for NOT giving those crooks in D.C. more money that they didn't earn.

Gozarian · 12-10-2012, 02:08 AM

Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes.

Judge Learned Hand, Helvering v. Gregory, 69 F.2d 809, 810-11 (2d Cir. 1934)

Gozarian · 12-10-2012, 02:10 AM

Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands: taxes are enforced exactions, not voluntary contributions. To demand more in the name of morals is mere cant."

Judge Learned Hand Commissioner v. Newman, 159 F.2d 848, 851 (2d Cir. 1947)

12-10-2012, 02:29 AM

Maybe the government could bail out adult and decide how much each of us get for our labor. Then none of us would have to worry about the maths and we can all get along.

Qbert · 12-10-2012, 05:23 AM

Lower tax rates at the top does not create jobs and does not stimulate the economy. No matter how many times the GOP say it, no matter how many different ways they spin it, it's all bullshit. It has always been bullshit and it will continue to be bullshit.

Taxes and the Economy: An Economic
Analysis of the Top Tax Rates Since 1945
http://www.dpcc.senate.gov/files/doc...op%20Rates.pdf

How the rich can create jobs: pay taxes!
http://econ4.org/media-library/how-t...jobs-pay-taxes

Gozarian · 12-10-2012, 05:27 AM

Ok let's see - since O took office the cumulative deficit is $5 trillion.
Prior to 2009 it was $6.3 trillion - now it's almost $11.5 trillion and increase of 80%!

And what did all this spending yield? 1.5% per year growth. So O more than doubled
W's deficits and got a .01% increase in growth per year - wonderful and most costly record.

BlackCrayon · 12-10-2012, 05:55 AM

if taxes are raised, will it be used to pay down the debt or will it be used for a million other things? the US government does not seem to care about paying down the debt.

BlackCrayon · 12-10-2012, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Verizon isn't the burden...the Federal Govt. spending 10 BILLION dollars per day is the burden.

And fuck no...I don't want ANYBODY to pay taxes that they don't have to.
Verizon may have had to cut 30,000 jobs...but they still employ tens of thousands more people who are all part of the tax base thanks to their employment at Verizon.

I don't want the corporation of Verizon to pay ANY taxes. I want them to thrive and be successful and sell so many goddamn phones that they need more employees to do the work.

FUCK the govt. and FUCK feeding that beast. We need to be starving it.

If the govt. would actually help people I wouldn't mind my money going towards that. But instead it's all about the military.

You want to take money from a phone company and give it to the Federal govt. to build missiles, invade other countries, and kill people worldwide.

Let me know the next time Verizon sends a drone out and kills innocent civilians as part of "collateral damage" on the "war on terror"
Or the next time they wiretap U.S. citizens. Or the next time they raid a pot dispensary. Or the next time they start another war....

You see what I'm saying? YOU should be furious that the U.S. govt. does this bullshit worldwide and you should be applauding Verizon for NOT giving those crooks in D.C. more money that they didn't earn.

the tax system won't work if every successful business that employes x amount of people isn't taxed but i think we and i could agree that the money should be used more wisely. pay down the debt instead of all this other bullshit.

Barefootsies · 12-10-2012, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qbert

Lower tax rates at the top does not create jobs and does not stimulate the economy. No matter how many times the GOP say it

Correct.

Ask any small/business owner about hiring additional help. Any honest business owner will tell you that if there is an increased demand for their products, and the economy is stable, they are going to hire regardless of taxes.

Right now the economy is not stable, and growing. Hence not increased demand for product, which means businesses do not need extra help. Do taxes play 'some' roll in it, sure. But they are not the engine that drives commerce/jobs. Demand for company's products and services is.

No business is going to hire someone just because they get a tax break if demand is stagnant or the economy is unstable. Businesses are also not going to expand just because they were given a tax break. They expand if there is increased demand for their products, and an economic forecast showing that demand will be there for the next 12/24/36 months. Plain and simple. Businesses are about making profit and selling their wares. Not about creating jobs for no reason.

Barefootsies · 12-10-2012, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

i think we and i could agree that the money should be used more wisely. pay down the debt instead of all this other bullshit.

Agreed top notch.

I do not have an issue paying "my fair share" assuming EVERYONE has some skin in the game. However, I do not agree with how the government is WASTING the tax revenue they are already getting. Especially in regards to military spending and "nation building" in other countries. The U.S. tax dollars collected are for U.S. citizens. Not for spending on arabs and muslims in other countries like Iraq and Afghanistan.

If the reason for us being in all of these foreign countries is to aid multi-nations self interest. THEY should be paying the military tab for being there, not the tax payers. If the world want the U.S. defending their countries and policing their waters to prevent Somali's and international trade disruption or alike, THEY should have to pay for it.

This is how it works for the tax payers. If we want something, you have to budget/pay for it. Versus endless handouts.

Gozarian · 12-10-2012, 07:30 AM

My payroll tax rate is 41.7% i would sure hire many, many more if it was reduced to what you guys in America pay

)

IllTestYourGirls · 12-10-2012, 07:40 AM

How does taxing "your" employers earnings at a higher rate make "your" job more secure?

Gozarian · 12-10-2012, 12:55 PM

Maybe you have never had employees therefore dont understand the structure of payroll taxation. The withholding of payroll taxes is typically the responsibility of the employer. The burden is typically enforced upon both the employer and employee. In our country the employer remits to govt 41.7% of gross payroll. Employer portion = 31.7%, employee portion = 10%. The rate in the states, last I looked, was 15.3% (7.65 employer, 7.65% employee). We pay 314% more.

IllTestYourGirls · 12-10-2012, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozarian

Maybe you have never had employees therefore dont understand the structure of payroll taxation. The withholding of payroll taxes is typically the responsibility of the employer. The burden is typically enforced upon both the employer and employee. In our country the employer remits to govt 41.7% of gross payroll. Employer portion = 31.7%, employee portion = 10%. The rate in the states, last I looked, was 15.3% (7.65 employer, 7.65% employee). We pay 314% more.

You are almost right. In the states the income tax is paid by the employee. The FICA is split up 50/50 or "matched" by the employer.

http://biztaxlaw.about.com/od/glossa...yrolltaxes.htm

Our withholding rates depend on how much you make. (These numbers do not include FICA).

http://taxes.about.com/od/Federal-In...2-Tax-Year.htm

Now remember close to 50% of all Americans get back their income tax money when they file their taxes. The rest of us pay for them.

12clicks · 12-10-2012, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qbert

Lower tax rates at the top does not create jobs and does not stimulate the economy. No matter how many times the GOP say it, no matter how many different ways they spin it, it's all bullshit. It has always been bullshit and it will continue to be bullshit.

Taxes and the Economy: An Economic
Analysis of the Top Tax Rates Since 1945
http://www.dpcc.senate.gov/files/doc...op%20Rates.pdf

How the rich can create jobs: pay taxes!
http://econ4.org/media-library/how-t...jobs-pay-taxes

more trash raises its head to speak.

GrantMercury · 12-10-2012, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil1

yes, crank up the taxes, the government deserves it for being so wonderful to the people. Think of how many more hundreds of millions we can give pakistan or egypt and all the good that they will do here with it.. definitely feed the govt even more money. Wouldn't want michelle obama to be forced into skipping a vacation.

idiot.

Uh, how about using the tax money to repair our crumbling infrastructure, and to hire more math and science teachers. And to pay down the debt. Read a book, genius.

GrantMercury · 12-10-2012, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

What's concerning about having an academic president who's NEVER had a real job in his life prior? -His first 4 years he played president with his novice healthcare bullshit that will cost companies billions when he should've been crunching down on Wall Street. He's creating the perfect storm by not extending the Bush tax cuts because companies will have a (stock) massive sell-off so they won't get nailed with increased 2013 capital gains tax ie., Apple.

You can't tax companies to reduce "our" $16 trillion debt, extend unemployment benefits, give healthcare away, massive food stamp programs without businesses, people, or the markets pushing back.

Honestly? -crazy as just yesterday in the city bulk food shopping almost half the people had food-stamp cards. The food they purchased were far from the necessities, gallons of chocolate milk, bags of candy, coke, chips, ice cream, etc. All of them and kids, overweight.

It actually disgusted me. I/we have good lives because we're in a business that makes money easy comparatively, but it still makes me a bit disgusted when people who simply refuse to better their lives and "expect" government taxes, our money, to give them free shit and keep them totally dependent.

.... or maybe they're just smarter and can see the writing on the wall better then me and just getting theirs.

You must get tired patting yourself on the back.

So many people believe this fantasy that there are millions of people just fucking off and getting a check to do nothing, and living the high life. Meanwhile THEY "bust their hump" and get nothing in return. It's bullshit.

Cuz you know who just fucks off and collects checks? The top .1%, - the vast majority of whom have never worked a day in their lives - and they get a lower tax rate than you. Direct your outrage there.

GrantMercury · 12-10-2012, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozarian

My payroll tax rate is 41.7% i would sure hire many, many more if it was reduced to what you guys in America pay

)

So you have so much business that you need many, many more employees? But even though business is booming, you can't afford to hire any? You're doing something wrong! I smell bullshit.

GrantMercury · 12-10-2012, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Correct.

Ask any small/business owner about hiring additional help. Any honest business owner will tell you that if there is an increased demand for their products, and the economy is stable, they are going to hire regardless of taxes.

Right now the economy is not stable, and growing. Hence not increased demand for product, which means businesses do not need extra help. Do taxes play 'some' roll in it, sure. But they are not the engine that drives commerce/jobs. Demand for company's products and services is.

No business is going to hire someone just because they get a tax break if demand is stagnant or the economy is unstable. Businesses are also not going to expand just because they were given a tax break. They expand if there is increased demand for their products, and an economic forecast showing that demand will be there for the next 12/24/36 months. Plain and simple. Businesses are about making profit and selling their wares. Not about creating jobs for no reason.

Exactly. Thank you. Anyone who can't see the logic in your post needs to stop snacking on paint chips.

GrantMercury · 12-10-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozarian

Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands: taxes are enforced exactions, not voluntary contributions. To demand more in the name of morals is mere cant."

Judge Learned Hand Commissioner v. Newman, 159 F.2d 848, 851 (2d Cir. 1947)

So? What's your point? Obviously people will never pay more than the law demands. The problem is, the very rich have bought politicians to MANIPULATE THE LAWS so they demand less and less of those in the top tax bracket, and the working people need to make up the difference - either in higher taxes, or reduced services, or we end up with a higher national debt.

PornoMonster · 12-10-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

Did you read it? Verizon paid negative 3.3% in federal taxes (meaning they were a burden on you and I) and still slashed 30k jobs.

So that let us pay less in taxes and we will hire more line is BS.

Giant corps pay nowhere near 35%. Many don't even pay 10%.

Guess who makes up the difference? Individual taxpayers. That's why I always think it's funny what side of the argument some people are on.

Robbie, I bet you pay close to the % of taxes you are supposed to be and should be furious at those who don't.

And you think Raising taxes they will hire more? NOPE Cut more jobs...

Everyone is saying the Bush cuts and so on, well wonder how many less jobs there would be without them. I am all for finding out, fuck it!

Here is ONE Problem that hurts... See companies are to make the most they can to get great returns on stocks for the stock holders.

GrantMercury · 12-10-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Verizon isn't the burden...the Federal Govt. spending 10 BILLION dollars per day is the burden.

And fuck no...I don't want ANYBODY to pay taxes that they don't have to.
Verizon may have had to cut 30,000 jobs...but they still employ tens of thousands more people who are all part of the tax base thanks to their employment at Verizon.

I don't want the corporation of Verizon to pay ANY taxes. I want them to thrive and be successful and sell so many goddamn phones that they need more employees to do the work.

FUCK the govt. and FUCK feeding that beast. We need to be starving it.

If the govt. would actually help people I wouldn't mind my money going towards that. But instead it's all about the military.

You want to take money from a phone company and give it to the Federal govt. to build missiles, invade other countries, and kill people worldwide.

Let me know the next time Verizon sends a drone out and kills innocent civilians as part of "collateral damage" on the "war on terror"
Or the next time they wiretap U.S. citizens. Or the next time they raid a pot dispensary. Or the next time they start another war....

You see what I'm saying? YOU should be furious that the U.S. govt. does this bullshit worldwide and you should be applauding Verizon for NOT giving those crooks in D.C. more money that they didn't earn.

Dude, I never said I like the massive pentagon budget or any of the other bad things you mention that get done in our name, with our money. But that's a separate issue.

GrantMercury · 12-10-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornoMonster

And you think Raising taxes they will hire more? NOPE Cut more jobs...

Everyone is saying the Bush cuts and so on, well wonder how many less jobs there would be without them. I am all for finding out, fuck it!

Here is ONE Problem that hurts... See companies are to make the most they can to get great returns on stocks for the stock holders.

If raising taxes on companies like Verizon (or making them pay fucking ANYTHING) means lowering taxes on Joe six-pack, yes, it will stimulate the economy, and lead to more jobs.

The $$$ is being hoarded at the top. It's not circulating. It needs to start.

PornoMonster · 12-10-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Correct.

Ask any small/business owner about hiring additional help. Any honest business owner will tell you that if there is an increased demand for their products, and the economy is stable, they are going to hire regardless of taxes.

Right now the economy is not stable, and growing. Hence not increased demand for product, which means businesses do not need extra help. Do taxes play 'some' roll in it, sure. But they are not the engine that drives commerce/jobs. Demand for company's products and services is.

No business is going to hire someone just because they get a tax break if demand is stagnant or the economy is unstable. Businesses are also not going to expand just because they were given a tax break. They expand if there is increased demand for their products, and an economic forecast showing that demand will be there for the next 12/24/36 months. Plain and simple. Businesses are about making profit and selling their wares. Not about creating jobs for no reason.

This is ONLY True if the Economy is GOOD and Demand is High.
See sometimes companies hire extra people because it is cheap to do so and can let the other workers not work as hard. After the Crash in 2008, Lots of Companies trimmed the fat, and asked the workers that still had jobs to do double work if you wanted to keep getting a check.

I will take the company I work for UPS. We have had Growth and Record profits for a long time, but the employee numbers keep going down, and employees are asked to do more and more. Many drivers are asking to ONLY work 8 hours that 12 hours a day is killing them. The company saves money by not paying the additional health, taxes, insurance and so on.

PornoMonster · 12-10-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

If raising taxes on companies like Verizon (or making them pay fucking ANYTHING) means lowering taxes on Joe six-pack, yes, it will stimulate the economy, and lead to more jobs.

The $$$ is being hoarded at the top. It's not circulating. It needs to start.

LOLOLOLOL You think they are going to LOWER taxes on ANYONE you are STUPID and BLIND. The ONLY people that will benefit are the ones on Total gov assistance..

Besides, The Average Person will pay MORE as prices on goods and services go up.

Take away the Loop Holes....

Anyway As I said Fuck it, I am ready for a Complete crash ... 4 More years, Bring it!

GrantMercury · 12-10-2012, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

My outrage is for "your" socialistic mentality.

In short, they are fucking off. I've traveled and lived in many parts of this world and we Americans have it so good comparatively it pains me to see such useless fucks just throw it away. Or they have your "entitlement" something mentality.

Meaning, do you think if you live in China or Russia and you came up with an inventive idea you can just go to a bank, get a loan, and then open up a business? It would NEVER happen because too many higher ups with their fingers in every pie.

In short, the US is one of the best or the best place in the world to start a Company or become wealthy, from nothing. The only thing people like you have in abundance, excuses. You fucking disgust me and make me sick.

Of course, anyone who wants a FAIR tax system is a "Socialist" to asswipes like you. Anyone who thinks it's fucking outrageous that quarter-million Mitt pays 13% while the rest of us make up the difference by paying twice that is a "Communist" right?

You're right about America being a great place to start a business - but you turn into a teabagger when you think it's ok jip the country you love so much once you've got your fortune, by stashing your America-made profits offshore, and lobbying for break after break until you pay little if any taxes at all. Grateful you live in America? Appreciate the business climate? Great. So put a smile on your face, pay taxes, and realize we are a society.

12clicks · 12-10-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

So? What's your point? Obviously people will never pay more than the law demands. The problem is, the very rich have bought politicians to MANIPULATE THE LAWS so they demand less and less of those in the top tax bracket, and the working people need to make up the difference - either in higher taxes, or reduced services, or we end up with a higher national debt.

You are an absolute idiot.
There are 2 tax rates for the rich. 35% if you earned it and 15% if it was investment earnings.
EVERY penny they take is taxed at one rate or the other.
The tax rate for the bottom 47% is 0%.
The tax rates for the rest vary between the two.

Anything else you have to say on the subject is bullshit.

12clicks · 12-10-2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Of course, anyone who wants a FAIR tax system is a "Socialist" to asswipes like you. Anyone who thinks it's fucking outrageous that quarter-million Mitt pays 13% while the rest of us make up the difference by paying twice that is a "Communist" right?

You're right about America being a great place to start a business - but you turn into a teabagger when you think it's ok jip the country you love so much once you've got your fortune, by stashing your America-made profits offshore, and lobbying for break after break until you pay little if any taxes at all. Grateful you live in America? Appreciate the business climate? Great. So put a smile on your face, pay taxes, and realize we are a society.

You're free to earn your money the exact same way mitt does and pay 15% on it.
You're just not smart enough to.
So you whine like the uneducated failure you are that your betters should pay more of your way for you.

IllTestYourGirls · 12-10-2012, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

So you have so much business that you need many, many more employees? But even though business is booming, you can't afford to hire any? You're doing something wrong! I smell bullshit.

You are missing the point. A business maybe doing better and could benefit from hiring one or two more people but since the government threatening higher taxes and more regulations that business will decide not to hire. The reward for the risk is not high enough.

epitome · 12-10-2012, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

You are missing the point. A business maybe doing better and could benefit from hiring one or two more people but since the government threatening higher taxes and more regulations that business will decide not to hire. The reward for the risk is not high enough.

If the average revenue per head is $100K and the average cost per head (salary, benefits + taxes) is $60K why wouldn't you hire?

The higher taxes would only be on that $40k profit, minus any additional costs not factored into into the above.

Gozarian · 12-10-2012, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

So you have so much business that you need many, many more employees? But even though business is booming, you can't afford to hire any? You're doing something wrong! I smell bullshit.

ok bullshit if you prefer - windmills are everywhere tilt away

PornMD · 12-10-2012, 11:50 PM

Increasing taxes won't solve anything. Removing loopholes that big corps use to avoid paying taxes would do much more. That's the only reason why rich folks can often pay less than the rest. But that'll never happen with so much money flow in politics.

OneHungLo · 12-11-2012, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

You are missing the point. A business maybe doing better and could benefit from hiring one or two more people but since the government threatening higher taxes and more regulations that business will decide not to hire. The reward for the risk is not high enough.

So what you're saying is if you own a business and can increase productivity and profit by hiring an employee you will not because you may have to pay a higher tax rate on your profits?

Do you actually own a business?

GregE · 12-11-2012, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

You are missing the point. A business maybe doing better and could benefit from hiring one or two more people but since the government threatening higher taxes and more regulations that business will decide not to hire. The reward for the risk is not high enough.

It's so called "job creators" like you who make the rest of us chuckle whenever we hear Republicans speak of "job creators" in worshipful terms.

It's like this.. the middle class drives the economy. They are the ones who buy our shit, be it porn, clothes or housing.

If the middle class suffers we all feel it.

That is why stimulating the economy should take precedence over any and all other considerations.

Get the economy roaring again and the deficit will flutter away like a leaf in a November breeze.

Tom_PM · 12-11-2012, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus H Christ

No it won't and true economical growth that you were accustom to will NEVER be seen again in your lifetime..The middle class is dying due to unions, mandatory company benefits, minority hiring, etc. Hell, even the EPA has a lot to do with it as they'll deny permits to build new factories under the auspice of a fucking bird or even a beetle?

The US has turned into what they feared the most, a socialistic country. Almost 40% of the middle class income revenue is generated from state, Fed, or government sub contractor jobs?

Meaning, let's say you work for Fed Ex as your neighbor works for the USPS. You'd have a higher probability of being laid-off then your counterpart who works for a government job that's been in the red $5 billion a year, for the last 3 years.

WE saw and were part of bankrupting this same ideology that once was called the Soviet Union. It all started 20 years ago in our school system, kids taught if they tried their best they deserve at-least something.

...otherwise known as an entitlement. As that mentality spreads faster then ass cancer.

You are upside down.

Unions created the middle class despite corporate bosses wanting to pay slave wages and oppose mandatory overtime. The fact that they do their best, even with political figureheads, to crush unions now to keep their last penny at the top level.

The EPA does nothing but try to keep clean air, water and land. They're another thorn in corporate bosses sides because they don't want to invest money in how to reclaim waste gases, liquids and solids. They prefer to just dump them in the air, water and on the land. It's cheap and fuck the poor bastards who mutate anyway.

You are upside down, but 100% in line with one political party by some amazing coincidence.

Robbie · 12-11-2012, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

You are upside down.

Unions created the middle class despite corporate bosses wanting to pay slave wages and oppose mandatory overtime.

Then why do govt. employees need a union? Even though the President who made unions legal (FDR) specifically said that govt. employees work for the people of the United States and should never be unionized?

If it's all about the bad and evil businessman making people work for "slave wages", and the govt. stepped in and made laws to allow unions...then WHY do my taxes go to pay unions in govt.?

And I guess all of you forget that unions are owned by the mafia. I live in Vegas...and back in the days before banks would do business with a casino, this whole town was funded off the backs of union workers money.

They referred to unions as "The Mob Bank".

And I can't help but wonder how some of the people in this thread keep THINKING that employees are "building" this country if those employees can't get a job.

12clicks · 12-11-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Unions created the middle class despite corporate bosses wanting to pay slave wages and oppose mandatory overtime. The fact that they do their best, even with political figureheads, to crush unions now to keep their last penny at the top level.

the thought process of the bottom amazes me.

I guess everyone not working for a union currently are working for slave wages.

12clicks · 12-11-2012, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregE

It's so called "job creators" like you who make the rest of us chuckle whenever we hear Republicans speak of "job creators" in worshipful terms.

It's like this.. the middle class drives the economy. They are the ones who buy our shit, be it porn, clothes or housing.

If the middle class suffers we all feel it.

That is why stimulating the economy should take precedence over any and all other considerations.

Get the economy roaring again and the deficit will flutter away like a leaf in a November breeze.

and using your idiot logic, raising taxes on our most productive will stimulate the economy?

wrong

12clicks · 12-11-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornMD

Increasing taxes won't solve anything. Removing loopholes that big corps use to avoid paying taxes would do much more. That's the only reason why rich folks can often pay less than the rest. But that'll never happen with so much money flow in politics.

you're misinformed.
corporations and "folks" are two different things. "folks" who pay less than the rest of us do so because they ear their money thru investments (retirees, the rich, etc.) what they pay has ZERO to do with corporations avoiding the draconian idea that they should be taxed.

anyone EARNING more than you do, pays more than you do. If you believe otherwise, you're part of the problem and part of the idiot masses obama preaches to.

JFK · 12-11-2012, 11:40 AM

Fitty .........Job Destroyers

Matt 26z · 12-11-2012, 02:43 PM

The middle class refused to pay a little extra for products made in USA. The wealthy class saw a way to profit from that though Chinese manufacturing.

Now we are experiencing the consequences of those actions. America screwed America. The people with money and power are just trying to extend their old lifestyles as long as they can by clinging to the dream of keeping their tax cuts around, but their time is coming also.

This is the new America. Get used to it. The only way out is to boycott Chinese made products, but that won't happen.

GrantMercury · 12-11-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I can't understand why anybody would want to let the govt. TAKE more of people's money. Especially when they spend over 10 billion dollars per day. And kill people all over the world with a giant military that most of that money goes to.

People like Grant Mercury are "neo-liberals" A real liberal would never trust or want to give the crooks in Washington D.C. a single penny more than is needed to administrate our country.

No, dude. You're wrong. Slap whatever stupid label you want on me. The fact is, taxes must be paid. There's no way around it. Shit costs money. We have a tax system that has been totally fucked up, and it favors the wealthy and huge corporations.

Mitt Romney pays 13% (and that's what he cops to - there's much we don't know because he hid it from us).

GE, and many other massive, highly profitable corporations pay NOTHING. What would happen to the country (the same country the rich righties applaud for its opportunity) if you and I paid 0% in taxes?

They can afford to buy politicians and feed lobbyists to stack the deck ever more in their favor. Check the tax rate during the 1950s & 60s - a period of great prosperity and a robust middle class. And what is it now? Is there any wonder why we're running a debt? Is there any wonder that the size of classes in public schools continues to grow? Or that our roads and bridges and sewers and electrical grid are all in serious need of repair? Revenue is drying up - but NOT corporate profit - that's massive, and the rich are doing better than any time since the 1920s. Who isn't doing well? The fucking working people. We're all getting squeezed. Meanwhile, dumb fucks blame it all on the poor who need assistance, instead of the ones gaming the system.

GrantMercury · 12-11-2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

and using your idiot logic, raising taxes on our most productive will stimulate the economy?

wrong

So rich = productive?

Try again. They can sit by the pool and wait for their dividend check to arrive. They don't have to lift a finger.

And raising taxes on the rich while lowering them on the working people WILL stimulate the economy - because the money the working class isn't paying in taxes will flow right back into the economy - not to fucking tax shelters in the Cayman Islands.

GrantMercury · 12-11-2012, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregE

It's so called "job creators" like you who make the rest of us chuckle whenever we hear Republicans speak of "job creators" in worshipful terms.

It's like this.. the middle class drives the economy. They are the ones who buy our shit, be it porn, clothes or housing.

If the middle class suffers we all feel it.

That is why stimulating the economy should take precedence over any and all other considerations.

Get the economy roaring again and the deficit will flutter away like a leaf in a November breeze.

Fucking right on!!

12-09-2012, 07:38 PM	#1
GrantMercury Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,626	Five Job-Destroying CEOs Trying to ?Fix? the Debt by Slashing Corporate Taxes Five Job-Destroying CEOs Trying to ?Fix? the Debt by Slashing Corporate Taxes and Cutting Social Security Benefits In poll after poll, the American people say they are far more concerned about the jobs crisis than the ?debt crisis.? A powerful coalition of CEOs says they have an answer for both problems. Give us more tax breaks, they say, and we?ll use the money to invest and create jobs. The national economic pie will expand and Uncle Sam will get plenty of the frothy meringue without having to raise tax rates. That?s the line of the Fix the Debt campaign. Led by more than 90 CEOs, this turbo-charged PR/lobbying machine is blasting the message that such ?pro-growth tax reform? should be a pillar of any deficit deal (along with cuts to benefit programs like Social Security and Medicare). And it might be a good line ? if not for some pesky real-world facts. http://www.alternet.org/economy/five...cutting-social __________________ http://www.taboophonesexfantasy.com http://www.thekittykatclub.com

12-09-2012, 08:33 PM	#2
Evil1 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,893	yes, crank up the taxes, the government deserves it for being so wonderful to the people. Think of how many more hundreds of millions we can give pakistan or egypt and all the good that they will do here with it.. definitely feed the govt even more money. Wouldn't want michelle obama to be forced into skipping a vacation. idiot. __________________

12-09-2012, 10:50 PM	#3
bronco67 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 29,035	I know that John Boner is a royal, gaping asshole -- but if you read up on Mitch McConell you'll find that he's one of the dirtiest campaigners ever -- and he appears to be a pretty vile human being. __________________

12-09-2012, 11:33 PM	#4
k0nr4d Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Poland Posts: 9,204	That seems like a pretty reasonable solution to me. Even on the small business scale - if taxes and the cost to employ people were lower, i'd be more likely to hire additional staff. __________________ Mechanical Bunny Media Mechbunny Tube Script \| Mechbunny Webcam Aggregator Script \| Custom Web Development

12-09-2012, 11:39 PM	#5
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,845	I can't understand why anybody would want to let the govt. TAKE more of people's money. Especially when they spend over 10 billion dollars per day. And kill people all over the world with a giant military that most of that money goes to. People like Grant Mercury are "neo-liberals" A real liberal would never trust or want to give the crooks in Washington D.C. a single penny more than is needed to administrate our country. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

12-10-2012, 02:08 AM	#8
Gozarian Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: most recently Bucharest Posts: 558	Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one’s taxes. Judge Learned Hand, Helvering v. Gregory, 69 F.2d 809, 810-11 (2d Cir. 1934)

12-10-2012, 02:10 AM	#9
Gozarian Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: most recently Bucharest Posts: 558	Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands: taxes are enforced exactions, not voluntary contributions. To demand more in the name of morals is mere cant." Judge Learned Hand Commissioner v. Newman, 159 F.2d 848, 851 (2d Cir. 1947)

12-10-2012, 02:29 AM	#10
Rat King Guest Posts: n/a	Maybe the government could bail out adult and decide how much each of us get for our labor. Then none of us would have to worry about the maths and we can all get along.

12-10-2012, 05:23 AM	#11
Qbert Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Dark Side of the Moon Posts: 813	Lower tax rates at the top does not create jobs and does not stimulate the economy. No matter how many times the GOP say it, no matter how many different ways they spin it, it's all bullshit. It has always been bullshit and it will continue to be bullshit. Taxes and the Economy: An Economic Analysis of the Top Tax Rates Since 1945 http://www.dpcc.senate.gov/files/doc...op%20Rates.pdf How the rich can create jobs: pay taxes! http://econ4.org/media-library/how-t...jobs-pay-taxes

12-10-2012, 05:27 AM	#12
Gozarian Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: most recently Bucharest Posts: 558	Ok let's see - since O took office the cumulative deficit is $5 trillion. Prior to 2009 it was $6.3 trillion - now it's almost $11.5 trillion and increase of 80%! And what did all this spending yield? 1.5% per year growth. So O more than doubled W's deficits and got a .01% increase in growth per year - wonderful and most costly record.

12-10-2012, 05:55 AM	#13
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,624	if taxes are raised, will it be used to pay down the debt or will it be used for a million other things? the US government does not seem to care about paying down the debt. __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

12-10-2012, 07:30 AM	#17
Gozarian Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: most recently Bucharest Posts: 558	My payroll tax rate is 41.7% i would sure hire many, many more if it was reduced to what you guys in America pay )

12-10-2012, 07:40 AM	#18
IllTestYourGirls Ah My Balls Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Under the gold leaf ICQ 388-454-421 Posts: 14,311	How does taxing "your" employers earnings at a higher rate make "your" job more secure? __________________

12-10-2012, 12:55 PM	#19
Gozarian Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: most recently Bucharest Posts: 558	Maybe you have never had employees therefore dont understand the structure of payroll taxation. The withholding of payroll taxes is typically the responsibility of the employer. The burden is typically enforced upon both the employer and employee. In our country the employer remits to govt 41.7% of gross payroll. Employer portion = 31.7%, employee portion = 10%. The rate in the states, last I looked, was 15.3% (7.65 employer, 7.65% employee). We pay 314% more.

12-10-2012, 11:50 PM	#38
PornMD Mainstream Businessman Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: San Diego Posts: 9,291	Increasing taxes won't solve anything. Removing loopholes that big corps use to avoid paying taxes would do much more. That's the only reason why rich folks can often pay less than the rest. But that'll never happen with so much money flow in politics. __________________ Want to crush it in mainstream with Facebook ads? Hit me up.

12-11-2012, 11:40 AM	#46
JFK FUBAR the ORIGINATOR Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: FUBARLAND Posts: 67,382	Fitty .........Job Destroyers __________________ FUBAR Webmasters - The FUBAR Times - FUBAR Webmasters Mobile - FUBARTV.XXX For promo opps contact jfk at fubarwebmasters dot com

12-11-2012, 02:43 PM	#47
Matt 26z So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: ¤ª"˜¨๑۩۞۩๑¨˜"ª¤ Posts: 18,481	The middle class refused to pay a little extra for products made in USA. The wealthy class saw a way to profit from that though Chinese manufacturing. Now we are experiencing the consequences of those actions. America screwed America. The people with money and power are just trying to extend their old lifestyles as long as they can by clinging to the dream of keeping their tax cuts around, but their time is coming also. This is the new America. Get used to it. The only way out is to boycott Chinese made products, but that won't happen.