Presence of a gun yet again stops a mass shooting on Sunday night.

[sperbonzo]

Where is the national coverage? There have been several incidents like this, some actually involving regular citizens that happen to be armed.


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/man-...th-one-bullet/

"With one shot, an off-duty sheriff?s deputy took down a gunman who attempted to opened fire at a crowded movie theater lobby during a late night showing of ?The Hobbit? in San Antonio, WOAI reports.

Police say a gunman, identified as Jesus Manuel Garcia, chased patrons from the nearby China Garden Restaurant into the lobby of the Santikos Mayan 14 movie theater at around 9 p.m. on Sunday. Garcia, an employee of the restaurant, reportedly walked in the establishment looking for a woman.

When the woman, also reportedly a restaurant employee, wasn?t there, Garcia pulled out a gun and attempted to open fire in the restaurant but his weapon jammed.

?It started at the restaurant and then went into the parking lot and then into the movie theater,? Deputy Lou Antu told 1200 WOAI news.

The commotion sent horrified restaurant patrons into the movie theater lobby, but the gunman followed. He again attempted to open fire, and this time his gun didn?t jam. Garcia reportedly shot one man in the chest before Antu says an off-duty sheriff?s deputy working security the theater shot him once, dropping him to the floor."




.

[Coup]

[_Richard_]

oh that was just a break up gone wrong

nothing to see here

[DWB]

Damn. People are on edge, on drugs, or just losing it. And at The Hobbit! WTF?

[Phoenix]

you know the NRA is going to be combing all papers and news sources for this sort of thing right now.

however good on the officer.

key word Officer who shot the person...once...felling him.

[seeandsee]

is it wild west again in america?

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

you know the NRA is going to be combing all papers and news sources for this sort of thing right now.

They happen thousands of times a year, where an armed citizen stops a crime, mostly just by the presence of a firearm. National media never picks up those stories....


There are actually a bunch of studies that show this, but the most widely known is the study by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, completed in the 1990s, when violent crime rates were higher than they are today. That study found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million defensive gun uses per year in the United States.

Look up the study by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, ?Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun,? Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 86 (1995): 173.




.

[Minte]

You look at the nonsense you go through today to get on a commercial airliner. Try getting into a courthouse.

There are so many returning veterans that are unemployed, it would not be a terrible thing to put these guys to work guarding schools.

I don't disagree with any of the thoughts about gun control. No one needs an AK-47. But the fact is that the wrong people do have them. Nothing that might happen in congress with new laws will change that..

[Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Minte

You look at the nonsense you go through today to get on a commercial airliner. Try getting into a courthouse.

There are so many returning veterans that are unemployed, it would not be a terrible thing to put these guys to work guarding schools.

I don't disagree with any of the thoughts about gun control. No one needs an AK-47. But the fact is that the wrong people do have them. Nothing that might happen in congress with new laws will change that..

I saw this idea circulating earlier. It is not a bad idea at all.
Retired police, or veterans who are not trigger happy..lol

[kristin]

Right, but it was an officer who is trained with guns to kill.

The problem with most civilians carrying guns for fear they might get shot is that if faced with it, most would not be able to shoot someone point blank. Also, the cop has waaaay more experience in aim, target, etc. So one shot he killed him. Now the mom that is freaked out her kid is going to die? She will either 1) never shoot the guy or 2) probably be a pretty shitty shot and either hit someone else or have to lay out more rounds to get the guy, which by that time the gunman could have killed others.

[Slappin Fish]

Since you missed it the first time OFFICER is the key word here.

[crockett]

"off-duty sheriff’s deputy working security"

You try to make it sound as if it was just some average hero, that happened to be there and saved the day with his gun. It was a off duty police officer that took him down that was hired to do security.

Most states/towns allow their officers to work as security for businesses and usually allow them to wear their uniform, badge & often use their patrol car. It's what the guy was there to do. He did his job and likely saved a few lives.

It's a big difference when a trained professional is there to stop a crime and using deadly force vs some John wanna be Rambo whom carries a gun hoping he can one day shoot someone.

Keep in mind I'm not anti gun, but rather pro responsibility when it comes to using them. I'd say the majority of gun owns in this country are not responsible.

[notjoe]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

Where is the national coverage? There have been several incidents like this, some actually involving regular citizens that happen to be armed.


http://www.theblaze.com/stories/man-...th-one-bullet/

"With one shot, an off-duty sheriff?s deputy took down a gunman who attempted to opened fire at a crowded movie theater lobby during a late night showing of ?The Hobbit? in San Antonio, WOAI reports.

Police say a gunman, identified as Jesus Manuel Garcia, chased patrons from the nearby China Garden Restaurant into the lobby of the Santikos Mayan 14 movie theater at around 9 p.m. on Sunday. Garcia, an employee of the restaurant, reportedly walked in the establishment looking for a woman.

When the woman, also reportedly a restaurant employee, wasn?t there, Garcia pulled out a gun and attempted to open fire in the restaurant but his weapon jammed.

?It started at the restaurant and then went into the parking lot and then into the movie theater,? Deputy Lou Antu told 1200 WOAI news.

The commotion sent horrified restaurant patrons into the movie theater lobby, but the gunman followed. He again attempted to open fire, and this time his gun didn?t jam. Garcia reportedly shot one man in the chest before Antu says an off-duty sheriff?s deputy working security the theater shot him once, dropping him to the floor."




.

How did he get the gun in the first place? If his gun didn't jam then there would have been another mass shooting. Furthermore, it wasn't an average Joe who took the guy down but rather an off-duty officer.. If anything this posting is yet another example why guns should be banned.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by kristin

Right, but it was an officer who is trained with guns to kill.

The problem with most civilians carrying guns for fear they might get shot is that if faced with it, most would not be able to shoot someone point blank. Also, the cop has waaaay more experience in aim, target, etc. So one shot he killed him. Now the mom that is freaked out her kid is going to die? She will either 1) never shoot the guy or 2) probably be a pretty shitty shot and either hit someone else or have to lay out more rounds to get the guy, which by that time the gunman could have killed others.

Learning to handle a weapon safely isn't rocket science. Anyone who has served in the military learned all they needed to know about it in several weeks of basic training.

[Joshua G]

yes. a good person can stop a bad person with a gun.

but life is not so simple. Zimmerman was packing heat, supposedly in "self defense" then that moron creates a commotion with Treyvon, & suddenly their fighting & the gun becomes an object they battle to the death for. & an innocent man armed with skittles is dead.

with free wheeling guns comes free wheeling idiots with guns.

[HushMoney]

Originally Posted by Minte

Learning to handle a weapon safely isn't rocket science. Anyone who has served in the military learned all they needed to know about it in several weeks of basic training.

that post is one big oxymoron.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by joshgirls

yes. a good person can stop a bad person with a gun.

but life is not so simple. Zimmerman was packing heat, supposedly in "self defense" then that moron creates a commotion with Treyvon, & suddenly their fighting & the gun becomes an object they battle to the death for. & an innocent man armed with skittles is dead.

with free wheeling guns comes free wheeling idiots with guns.

No question there will always be a percentage of people out there that have issues. Look at the amount of people killed by drunk drivers every day. Yet we still give out a permit to 16 year olds and let 90 year olds out to create mayhem on the roads whenever they want.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by kristin

Right, but it was an officer who is trained with guns to kill.

The problem with most civilians carrying guns for fear they might get shot is that if faced with it, most would not be able to shoot someone point blank. Also, the cop has waaaay more experience in aim, target, etc. So one shot he killed him. Now the mom that is freaked out her kid is going to die? She will either 1) never shoot the guy or 2) probably be a pretty shitty shot and either hit someone else or have to lay out more rounds to get the guy, which by that time the gunman could have killed others.

Yup trained... oh so well.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justic...ing/index.html

On a busy Friday morning in Manhattan, nine pedestrians suffered bullet or fragment wounds after police unleashed a hail of gunfire at a man wielding a .45 caliber pistol who had just killed a former co-worker.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by Minte

Learning to handle a weapon safely isn't rocket science. Anyone who has served in the military learned all they needed to know about it in several weeks of basic training.

Yes but I'd trust a gun in the hands of an ex Military guy long before trusting some average Joe. It's not just that he can most likely safely handle his weapon, but it's pretty likely he can properly assess a situation. Not to mention he's likely level headed and isn't a some want to be Rambo.

It's more than just shooting the gun.. it's about knowing things like what is behind the target you are shooting. Is your bullet going to possibly miss and take out someone when it goes through a wall. If he shoots back is he likely to hit people behind you.. ect..ect..

It's a lot more than just aiming and shooting. It's a lot of things a person has to take into consideration on the fly, in a dangerous situation that military & police are trained to deal with.

IMO all gun ownership should require a license in this country that comes along with it proper training and background checks. We do it with cars so why should guns be any different.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by HushMoney

that post is one big oxymoron.

You apparently don't know the meaning of the word..or served in the military.

No one leaves the 7 week basic training without having mastered the use of small weapons.
In the 7 week basic training, you learn many more things than simply how to shoot.

[Rochard]

A police office prevented a potential shooting. Not much of story there - even though shots were fired and the suspect was wounded.

What I find most interesting is that this didn't get any play at all in the national news. I understand that the school shooting had a major impact on the news, but this had nothing - meanwhile, a gunman in California fired shots into the ground, didn't hit anyone or anything, and it made the national news. Interesting.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by crockett

Yes but I'd trust a gun in the hands of an ex Military guy long before trusting some average Joe. It's not just that he can most likely safely handle his weapon, but it's pretty likely he can properly assess a situation. Not to mention he's likely level headed and isn't a some want to be Rambo.

It's more than just shooting the gun.. it's about knowing things like what is behind the target you are shooting. Is your bullet going to possible miss and take out someone when it goes through a wall. If he shoots back is he likely to hit people behind you.. ect..ect..

It's a lot more than just aiming and shooting. It's a lot of things a personal has to take into consideration on the fly in a dangerous situation that military & police are trained to deal with.

IMO all gun ownership should require a license in this country that comes along with it proper training. We do it with cars so why should guns be any different.

I am not disagreeing with any of that. My post said that returning veterans would be a good source to tap to set up some basic security for our schools. They have armed guards at the courthouse and most government buildings here now.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

That study found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million defensive gun uses per year in the United States.

Look up the study by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, “Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun,” Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 86 (1995): 173

For those that passed over it.... If you are interested in what is ACTUALLY happening regarding guns and self-defense, rather than just what your favorite media outlet chooses to tell you, perhaps you can make a little effort to find out.

Here is a link to the study:

http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/kleckandgertz1.htm



(and BTW, for those who think that cops are somehow better trained than the average person.... I was a reserve deputy sheriff, with the full firearms qualification. It was about 4 weeks of classroom and range time, (not full time, either), and after that you simply had to go qualify once every 6 months, and it wasn't made hard to do. There are TONS of crappy shooting cops out there, and TONS of well trained, in practice civilians.)




.

[Dirty F]

I wish every American would carry guns. Everywhere.
That would be some fucking show!
One can only hope.

[brassmonkey]

people are living in fear. I don't want to carry a gun everywhere i go.

[BlackCrayon]

had the gun not jammed the first time, it would of ended differently.

[Slappin Fish]

Originally Posted by Minte

I am not disagreeing with any of that. My post said that returning veterans would be a good source to tap to set up some basic security for our schools. They have armed guards at the courthouse and most government buildings here now.

more government spending?!?

[Dirty F]

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

had the gun not jammed the first time, it would of ended differently.

Yup, and this the only reason nothing happened. But that's the kind of details the gun nutters don't care about.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by Minte

No question there will always be a percentage of people out there that have issues. Look at the amount of people killed by drunk drivers every day. Yet we still give out a permit to 16 year olds and let 90 year olds out to create mayhem on the roads whenever they want.

yep. with freedoms there are responsibilities. some people do not handle them well, & the question for society is how much you are willing to pay for some freedoms. obviously with alcohol, america accepts a lot of dead people. With guns, seems like this massacre is gonna swing the pendulum towards greater gun controls.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish

more government spending?!?

It would beat paying people not to work.

[Killswitch]

Originally Posted by crockett

"off-duty sheriff?s deputy working security"

You try to make it sound as if it was just some average hero, that happened to be there and saved the day with his gun. It was a off duty police officer that took him down that was hired to do security.

Most states/towns allow their officers to work as security for businesses and usually allow them to wear their uniform, badge & often use their patrol car. It's what the guy was there to do. He did his job and likely saved a few lives.

It's a big difference when a trained professional is there to stop a crime and using deadly force vs some John wanna be Rambo whom carries a gun hoping he can one day shoot someone.

Keep in mind I'm not anti gun, but rather pro responsibility when it comes to using them. I'd say the majority of gun owns in this country are not responsible.

Ummm, off-duty... If we had gun control laws stopping your average citizen from concealing, that OFF-DUTY cop wouldn't have been packing...

I knew this would have been brought up.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

They happen thousands of times a year, where an armed citizen stops a crime, mostly just by the presence of a firearm. National media never picks up those stories....


There are actually a bunch of studies that show this, but the most widely known is the study by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, completed in the 1990s, when violent crime rates were higher than they are today. That study found that there were somewhere between 830,000 and 2.45 million defensive gun uses per year in the United States.

Look up the study by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, ?Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun,? Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 86 (1995): 173.
.

now you are just making up shit to convince others that people like you are justified in carrying around heat everywhere you go.. guess what? It's not working.

It absolutely does not prevent thousands of crimes, not even hundreds.. more like a few dozen at best. It's nothing more than wishful thinking that you can come in and save the day and prevent shit like this from happening. When it does, not only will you not be ready for it, you wont stop it from happening either.

You fire a pea shooter at a guy with an assault rifle you are just wearing a big sign saying shoot me next nothing more.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Killswitch

Ummm, off-duty... If we had gun control laws stopping your average citizen from concealing, that OFF-DUTY cop wouldn't have been packing...

I knew this would have been brought up.

that's not true either. do you just regurgitate nra crap or what? stop thinking in black and white.

[Slappin Fish]

Originally Posted by Dirty F

Yup, and this the only reason nothing happened. But that's the kind of details the gun nutters don't care about.

Two people shot. over a break up. no doubt a victory for gun owners.

[pornguy]

They dont call this silly season for nothing.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

now you are just making up shit to convince others that people like you are justified in carrying around heat everywhere you go.. guess what? It's not working. .

It absolutely does not prevent thousands of crimes, not even hundreds.. more like a few dozen at best. It's nothing more than wishful thinking that you can come in and save the day and prevent shit like this from happening. When it does, not only will you not be ready for it, you wont stop it from happening either.

"Making things up?" So what were your thoughts regarding the study, or do facts upset you too much? Or don't you bother to take the time to back up your opinions with information?

http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/kleckandgertz1.htm


(and BTW, I have driven off a burgler who was in my living room, with a 12-gauge, (without firing), and also someone trying to mug myself and my girlfriend with a knife, also by simply presenting my .45.)




.

[Killswitch]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

that's not true either. do you just regurgitate nra crap or what? stop thinking in black and white.

Nope, I don't even own a gun. But you tell me that with more strict laws, an OFF-DUTY cop will be allowed to have a concealed gun... Yeah right.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by PR_Glen

You fire a pea shooter at a guy with an assault rifle you are just wearing a big sign saying shoot me next nothing more.

Sorry, I didn't realize that carrying a semi-auto rifle somehow gave the person carrying it the super-ability to stop 9mm or .45 cal rounds without injury. How does that happen? Does he hide behind the rifle when you try to shoot him?







.

[HushMoney]

Originally Posted by Minte

You apparently don't know the meaning of the word..or served in the military.

No one leaves the 7 week basic training without having mastered the use of small weapons.
In the 7 week basic training, you learn many more things than simply how to shoot.

Yes, I do, look up the meaning. This thread is about civilians with guns stopping shooters, you say it's not rocket science then go on to talk about military training. unless I misunderstood your post.....

[Slappin Fish]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

(and BTW, I have driven off a burgler who was in my living room, with a 12-gauge, (without firing), and also someone trying to mug myself and my girlfriend with a knife, also by simply presenting my .45.)

You've driven off burglars, been a reserve deputy sheriff, discussed theology with the monk of monks... the all-singing all-knowing sperbonzo.



(and BTW, in a Caribbean islands I have driven off a burglar with a can of mosquito spay and a lighter -true story- had this been in the US chances are one of us would dead or shot.)

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by Slappin Fish

You've driven off burglars, been a reserve deputy sheriff, discussed theology with the monk of monks... the all-singing all-knowing sperbonzo.



(and BTW, in a Caribbean islands I have driven off a burglar with a can of mosquito spay and a lighter -true story- had this been in the US chances are one of us would dead or shot.)

Dude, I'm 50 years old and I've lived in a lot of places and done a lot of things. It just worked out that way....




.... And your story is great! LOL


.

[xNetworx]

That story had a good ending. Too bad about the innocent guy who was shot.

[inabon]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

(and BTW, I have driven off a burgler who was in my living room, with a 12-gauge, (without firing), and also someone trying to mug myself and my girlfriend with a knife, also by simply presenting my .45.)


.

be glad you did not have to shoot cause with your 4 weeks training not full time i would be damn scared to watch you shoot


or are you going to say that you can shoot flies off their wings now?


simple people hand guns for civilians semis for law enforcement and thats it.

joe smoe or myself dont need to have an ak47 at home


and hell no shotguns either nothing that allows to kill massively should be carried by a civilian.

[sperbonzo]

Originally Posted by inabon

be glad you did not have to shoot cause with your 4 weeks training not full time i would be damn scared to watch you shoot


or are you going to say that you can shoot flies off their wings now?

No. I grew up with guns in the house, my father had them, and taught me to shoot, I was in the Army, and they gave me training, and then the Maricopa County Sheriffs training came last. I try to get to the range at least once a month, because shooting is a skill that goes away without practice, and I take courses every couple of years to keep sharp. I respect guns, and my families safety, enough to stay more proficient than the average cop these days. My neighbor, Lenny, is on one of the Miami SWAT teams. He and I go to the range sometimes and he's not any better of a shot than I am.




.

[HushMoney]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

No. I grew up with guns in the house, my father had them, and taught me to shoot, I was in the Army, and they gave me training, and then the Maricopa County Sheriffs training came last. I try to get to the range at least once a month, because shooting is a skill that goes away without practice, and I take courses every couple of years to keep sharp. I respect guns, and my families safety, enough to stay more proficient than the average cop these days. My neighbor, Lenny, is on one of the Miami SWAT teams. He and I go to the range sometimes and he's not any better of a shot than I am.

Sure hope he's a better shot under pressure than you are. If not, they need to get him a desk job.

[Minte]

Originally Posted by HushMoney

Yes, I do, look up the meaning. This thread is about civilians with guns stopping shooters, you say it's not rocket science then go on to talk about military training. unless I misunderstood your post.....

The thread is about a TRAINED deputy sheriff. And it's not rocket science to learn to safely handle a weapon. Any person, male or female that has gone through basic training learns to use and master a weapon in several weeks. New recruits do not leave basic training without having met the standards of marksmanship. That includes breaking down and cleaning a weapon.

Prior to entering basic training I had never owned or fired any weapon. AFter 7 weeks of basic I could hit targets at 300m with an M16 - No scope. And that's the basic minimum.

[inabon]

Originally Posted by sperbonzo

No. I grew up with guns in the house, my father had them, and taught me to shoot, I was in the Army, and they gave me training, and then the Maricopa County Sheriffs training came last. I try to get to the range at least once a month, because shooting is a skill that goes away without practice, and I take courses every couple of years to keep sharp. I respect guns, and my families safety, enough to stay more proficient than the average cop these days. My neighbor, Lenny, is on one of the Miami SWAT teams. He and I go to the range sometimes and he's not any better of a shot than I am.




.

see you should have started with that resume. i respect your skill i do not have it plain and simple. with that said that is why either regulate so people have at least the 4 partime weeks of training you mentioned before before having a gun.. right now if i remember correctly any dumb ass with background check (no mayor anything) and legal age and money can have a gun.

i believe that is the point to all this. Trained people should have guns... you want a gun

FUCKING GET TRAINING!!!

[bronco67]

Well there you go. Let's give everyone a gun, and nothing bad will ever happen.

[Atticus]

It was an off duty cop working security. A little different then an average Joe saving the day by spraying bullets all over a crowded theater. Notice the ONE shot.

Why is it you cant talk gun control with a pro-gun nut job without them screaming about their right to own guns? A complete gun ban isn't even on the table. All reasonable US citizens are asking for is a ban on assault weapons. Do you really need a semi-automatic rifle to protect your home? A revolver or shotgun wouldn't cut it?

And while we're at it, why the hell do these loons fight so hard to limit background checks and gun training? You have to take a written test and driving test to operate a car but any back water dip shit can pick up a gun at WalMart?

[Si]

Where did that gun the criminal had come from? Probably legally purchased like many of the others.